Hillary gets elected and is arrested under the Libby Law or others. It's not inauguration yet. What then?
Read on.. Your chance to second guess Constitutonal Law or dictatorial powers. .
So... on to what if time. Hillary get's elected both popular and electoral college. FBI steps in before she is inaugurated. This one goes straight to the Supreme Court. A number of decisions. Act of Succession and provision for ruling unfit to serve pop up. What if the current POTUS issues a pardon? A pardon is not a Not Guilty verdict...or is it? If the charge was straight criminal can and may the Congress still go immediate impeachment IF she is sworn in.
Under the Libby Law it's quite possible these and more questions would pop up between voting day and inauguration day. So...
Don't get to carried away. This one deserves it's own thread but I'll start it 'as is as stated here.'
So... on to what if time. Hillary get's elected both popular and electoral college. FBI steps in before she is inaugurated. This one goes straight to the Supreme Court. A number of decisions. Act of Succession and provision for ruling unfit to serve pop up. What if the current POTUS issues a pardon? A pardon is not a Not Guilty verdict...or is it? If the charge was straight criminal can and may the Congress still go immediate impeachment IF she is sworn in.
Under the Libby Law it's quite possible these and more questions would pop up between voting day and inauguration day. So...
Don't get to carried away. This one deserves it's own thread but I'll start it 'as is as stated here.'
Amendment 20 - Presidential, Congressional Terms. Ratified 1/23/1933.
1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of
January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified;
and the terms of their successors shall then begin
Closing the doors on Hillary's
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he
shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of
the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the
Constitution of the United States."
Section 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments
The President ...and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
"Article II Executive Branch
"Before he (the President) enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:
'I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States'."
That's when the pay check starts.
Pursuant to a previous discussion what if Hillary were elected popular and electoral and then got indicted, apprehended or arrested on some of these investigations. Could she pardon herself etc.
If arrested before taking the Oath she would not be President. He phatassy is in jeopardy until January 20th Noon
Until she was convicted Obama couldn't issue a pardon. Ex Post Facto is denied numerous places. He would have to do that before the investigation started and that would constitute interference with an investigation and put himself in jeopardy. Would the Court conduct the swearing in? Doubtful.
After arrest she would be unable to serve Act of Succession takes over on the 20th with the VP as the President.
After conviction she could get a pardon but not be President.
The only route around this is Biden resigns. Hillary is appointed VP, Obama resigns early, Hillary takes the oath and IS President prior to the 20th. Or some such flavor.
Libertarians occupy a lonely position. The few other splinter parties are themselves fragmented squabblers and most reduced to voting for the lesser of two evil concept for lack of ability to simply cooperate and graduate. The excuses are oh so tempting and after all aren't the Constitution and concepts such as individual freedom on the way out anyway.....
Seig Me No Heils Comrade I DO NOT serve the party in any of it's shapes or forms. I serve the Constitution and if necessary stand alone.
Of interest it''s never been done. Despite urging Clinton agreed not to self pardon though the issue was not settled.
Here's some for and against opinions.
[PDF]The Constitutional Case Against Presidential Self-Pardons
digitalcommons.law.msu.edu/cgi/viewco......
by BC Kalt - 1997 - Cited by 52 - Related articles
Jan 1, 1997 - 230 n.72 (1993) (doubting that President can pardon self); Akhil Reed Amar On Judictal ..... 10, at 62 & n.36 (citing 4 WILLIAM BLACKSTONE.
[PDF]An Overview of the Presidential Pardoning Power
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS20...
Dec 12, 2006 - Absent these limitations, the President's authority to grant pardons is ... The Constitutional Case Against Presidential Self Pardons,” ..... as being advisory in nature.38 Indeed, these regulations have been cited by the courts as.
[PDF]Limiting the Federal Pardon Power - Digital Repository ...
www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/vi...
by KH Fowler - 2008 - Cited by 3 - Related articles
18. Id. at 132. See also Strasser, supra note 4, at 91 n.39 (citing Herrara v. Collins, 506 .... Analysis of the Presidential Self-Pardon Power, 52 OKLA. L. REV.
Can the President Pardon Himself? - Concurring Opinions
concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/...
Dec 14, 2008 - The Constitutional Case Against Presidential Self-Pardons. This was ... Smith cites his pardon and moves to dismiss the indictment. This case is ...
You visited this page on 11/16/15.
Article II, Section 2, Clause 1: Pardon Power
www.heritage.org/constitution/article...
The power to pardon is one of the least limited powers granted to the President in the Constitution. The only limits mentioned in the Constitution are that pardons ...
Missing: cites
Can President Clinton Pardon Himself? - Slate
www.slate.com/articles/.../can_presid...
Dec 30, 1998 - This interpretation not only prohibits Clinton from self-pardoning, it also prohibits a future president (e.g. Al Gore) from pardoning Clinton. (It was ...
Missing: cites
Ford Gives Pardon To Nixon, Who Regrets 'My Mistakes'
www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onth...
Ford Grants Nixon Pardon for Any Crimes in Office ... 'Pain Expressed': Ex-President Cites His Sorrow at the Way He Handled Watergate ... cannot decline to testify under the Fifth Amendment, which protects citizens against self-incrimination.
Pardons: Venality, Self-Interest? - latimes
articles.latimes.com/2001/mar/03/loca...
Mar 3, 2001 - ... personal gain for pardons, apologists then cite prior presidential pardons as defense. The prior cases cited (Bush and Caspar Weinberger; ...
Bush Pardons Weinberger in Iran-Contra Affair
www.washingtonpost.com › Politics
Mar 28, 2006 - President Bush yesterday pardoned former defense secretary Caspar W. ... denied that Bush had any self-interested motive for pardoning Weinberger and ... citing precedents including President Andrew Johnson's pardon of ...
Presidents Creating the Presidency: Deeds Done in Words
https://books.google.com.mx/books?isb...
Karlyn Kohrs Campbell, Kathleen Hall Jamieson - 2008 - Language Arts & Disciplines
... that his legal advisers had cited a Supreme Court opinion stating that “the President ... Moreover, the Court had found that “a pardon 'carries an imputation of guilt, ... affair were intentionally self-serving and illegal] and seemed to support it.
25th Amendment -- I covered that upthread.
And yes, impeachment is separate from criminal trial/conviction, this is spelt out in Article 1, section 3, last paragraph.
Having been pardoned on that count or counts could the Congress still enact empeachment and trial? Good questions. I haven't a clue at this time. Whose up for it?
Can't find much on 'Libby law' nor if a pardon would allow hiltery to move ahead but if prevented from soiling the white house then it would go to VP.
Best case scenario would be the VP complicit also and the presidency going to speaker of the House. Not sure if that would be temporary or not...got some studying to do
So the only possible way I see to prevent her from taking office (assuming she's still alive) is the 25th Amendment disability process. That is, the new Vice President would have to be sworn in, and then s/he, plus a majority of cabinet members, would have to notify Congress that the President is unable to discharge the duties of her office. This is not going to happen, of course, because the Cabinet at that time will still be the last one appointed by President Obama -- there is no way to appoint new cabinet members without a President making the appointment. (I suppose they could be impeached, in which case their deputies would succeed them. This would make no difference.)
Result: Either Clinton will have to be sworn in -- in jail, or wherever she is -- or Congress will have to declare that she is constitutionally ineligible (in which case I'm sure the Supreme Court will immediately intervene and decide that question themselves).
And if Clinton is sworn in, she will immediately pardon herself and that will be that.
Impeachment is still possible after she is sworn in (though I doubt it will even be possible to achieve the 2/3 Republican majority in the new Senate which would make impeachment non-futile). But it can't possibly happen fast enough to prevent her from pardoning herself. Thus she would not stay president, but would stay out of jail.
A little hint. Your vote will go to the winner anyway. It's not your property it goes to the winner take all. You don't get the satisfaction of voting for the lesser of two evils they don't leave you with even that much dignity.
So ...who or whom since it's still unclear on the right wing of the left candidate. ....
My guy? Kinda sexist don't you think? My candidate's name starts with General and his/her program is upholding his oath of office to defend he Constitution. My guys and gals are his or hers troops who took the same oath. My guy/gal is the one that will uphold that oath and take over - hopefully if they judge you as worth it - dragging the country kicking and screaming back under the Constitution. My candidate's name is Martial Law as they are the only group legally entitled and required to conduct what some might call a counter revolution.
Personally I don't see any other way out of this socialist trap people keep voting for. And our motto is No More Cannon Fodder - No More Baby Factories. You don't even want to think about my candidate. My candidate has learned to despise people who treat my party members despicably but still believes in the oath of office. and we won't have to live in shame...
How do you like my party platform?
Now... what was your plan and whose your candidate?
The change necessary is seize control then fix things but it does not include voting for those committed to the other side. Even saying that makes no sense and is historically incorrect. Sorry to see a good centrist join the dark side.
conscious1978 is right: when government by law breaks down, it's anarchy -- the government using force however it wants, plus any other gang of thugs getting away with it, too. But it wouldn't start with Cackles, Obama has already begun.
The 'Justice' Dept, like IRS, EPA, etc., is already being used to persecute political enemies while evading enforcement of legitimate laws. So the original question of what would happen if Cackles were indicted before coronation is unanswerable as a legal matter -- it would be whatever they want it to be (and what they want is more predictable). Obama pardoning her is almost the least of what he is going to do with executive decrees on the way out. If Obama's Executive were to allow her to be convicted at all, then not pardoned, she would pardon herself upon seizing office. Guilt or innocence, and objective legal procedures and criteria, would all be irrelevant -- that is the nature of statism.
At present Republican = Rino = Democrat = Dino = Socialist = Secular Progressive and your goal sorry to say is spelled
S T A T U S Q U O
You may continue to choose evil is you wish to do so. Or did you have something or somebody else in mind. I just wiped out of consideration all the choices that are going to be allowed.
Your theory has failed for the last fifty some http://years.It's another way of saying give in to evil.
There are always choices usually three. Right, 'Wrong and Compromise. Which makes two wrong choices and one right choice.
Don't expect a free ride here. You I think belong to the Constitutional 'Conservatives. I am an active Constitutional Centrist which isn't a party it's a state of being. I'm surprised and shocked that someone with your credentials would suggest such a thing.
Your last sentence especially since your first sentences reek of supporting the left and the liberals.
PS So ....who did you have in mind? If you say Trump your fired.
You can wait until 'then' until pigs learn how to fly with out United. I'm more interested in getting the job done.
Load more comments...