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Situation in Paris

Posted by $ Susanne 4 years, 11 months ago to News
152 comments | Share | Flag

If you haven't noticed yet... 3 (apparently) coordinated attacks in Paris - one at a soccer match, one at a restaurant, one at a metal concert. Currently the stadium is still pretty locked down, and the rock concert is a hostage situation. Um, make that 4. Add a shopping center to the list. LeHalle. Happens to be at a major rail hub. And it's in an area known to be an al queda stronghold in Paris.

Once again... Radicals V. Rationals. And the US hides its head in the sand, asking for more refugees... so we can be as European as Europe. Um Hmm...
SOURCE URL: http://www.vox.com/2015/11/13/9732040/paris-attacks


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    Posted by gaiagal 4 years, 11 months ago
    Yes...and now all you hear is ISIS is to be "contained."

    What does that even mean? What's wrong with eradicate?

    Well, we can all sleep well tonight for tomorrow President Obama is flying off to deal with the more immediate threat of Climate Change.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 4 years, 11 months ago
      If you haven't noticed, Obama is at the very least a Muslim apologist - if not a Muslim himself. Look at the actions he takes:
      - he refuses to name Islamic radicals as terrorists
      - he continually calls Islam the "religion of peace"
      - he re-tasked NASA and set their first priority as Muslim outreach
      - he has repeatedly met with CAIR - a pro-Islamic front group
      - he has continually pushed for the Iran deal despite the fact that the Iranians are the #1 sponsors of world terror and wholly a Muslim nation run by religious leaders
      - his administration was quick to blame Benghazi on a Youtube video when he knew it was a terrorist attack
      - the first 10,000 Syrian refugees he brought into the country were predominantly young men 18-33 - not women, children, or the elderly.
      - and lots more. I could go on and on.
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    • Posted by H2ungar123 4 years, 11 months ago
      Not only that. Just read where the WH Demented Dude notes "ISIS is not getting
      stronger.....we have contained them." If anyone should be contained, it's him, in a
      cage!!
      h WH demented dude
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      • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago
        Translated to the real meaning - "I cannot oppose them and their holy mission to make it a truly islamist world, so I will do a smoke and mirrors show to appease the American Citizens while we allow them to infiltrate"...
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 4 years, 11 months ago
    Obama says he doesn't want to speculate who's to blame.

    Yeah....that's rich...

    This kind of thing will be happening on our soil soon - just a prediction. I hope I'm wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if I media barely covers it if it does, too.
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    • Posted by $ Solver 4 years, 11 months ago
      I'm going to take a politically incorrect leap here and guess that these were collectivist minded individuals that were well trained to dutifully serve their greater good by any means necessary.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 4 years, 11 months ago
        Worse, they are religious zealots who are intolerant of any thought other than their own and are willing to kill themselves and others in pursuit of their ideals.

        Collectivists are evil in that they want to take your money. These people are far, far worse.
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    • Posted by gaiagal 4 years, 11 months ago
      A prediction? Not really.

      An educated guess, extrapolating from facts I'd say. At least if you are working under the assumption that all these "random" and "isolated" incidents really aren't.

      I'd say your "prediction" is right on the money.
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      • Posted by wmiranda 4 years, 11 months ago
        I think for a while he was trying to make sure they were Buddhist monks attacking Paris or he was looking for an angle to blame it on climate change. After all, that's the biggest threat in the world from his point of view.
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        • Posted by $ jlc 4 years, 11 months ago
          I originally read this as: "I think for a while he was trying to make sure they were Buddhist monks attacking Paris or he was looking for an angel to blame it on..." It made sense that way too...

          Jan, lookin' fer angels now
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  • Posted by giallopudding 4 years, 11 months ago
    My first thought about all those poor souls gunned down in the theater...if only concealed carry were allowed in the progressive French regime. The populace has been neutered defense-wise, and the barbarians encouraged to move in and out-breed the French natives.
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    • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago
      Winner Winner Chicken Dinner! And our gov and the libs say we're supposed to emulate the "enlightened Europeans" and throw away our defense? Bah (deleted) humbug!
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  • Comment deleted.
    • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago
      +100, Salty... for these and other reasons we have the right (and responsibility) to keep and bear arms. Especially in this day and age.

      And for the scum who think they can do this here, to you we will sing a favorite children's ditty -

      You think that you can terrorize
      like monkeys slinging evil
      But we are armed, so try it here...
      "POP" go you weasels
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      • Posted by khalling 4 years, 11 months ago
        this is an excellent first pragmatic step. Eradicate ISIS? we have been at war with Islam for decades. remember Iran and the hostages 1979???!!!! barbary pirates??!!! military is not enough. this is a war of ideas. Islam must be decried everywhere and at all times.But that does NOT mean you may stop every person is Islamic at the border. Or that we start throwing all muslims in jail-or even using military force before defining the ideas-or we will be in a Christian Holy war! We must first define our Ethics and separate it from the political (walls, war). Until we stand up and decry the ideas and we are clear that Islam is the enemy not just jihad, we will never win
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        • Posted by khalling 4 years, 11 months ago
          are we stopping any marxists from the border-or kicking marxists out of the country? Christians? are we kicking them out? Hindus who believe in caste systems? this is not the answer
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        • Posted by $ blarman 4 years, 11 months ago
          I would venture that it has actually been centuries - for the US alone. Europe has been at war with them since about 800 AD when they built up an armada and tried to invade.

          And one of the problems I see is that to a Muslim, their religion IS their politics. There is no live-and-let-live in their mind and their holy book (read it) even says so multiple times. It is probably the one and only religion for which I would make an exception on First Amendment grounds and solely because it is because they are willing and able to enforce their intolerance by the sword.

          I actually talked to a young man several times who used to be with the PLO. He was a part of the propaganda wing (rather than the military wing), but he said that that was one of the things Islam had over the rest of the world: the rest of the world just refused to come to grips with the notion that these people were willing to die for their religion - just as long as they could take out someone else on the way. I think we - as the Western World - need to come to grips with this very notion: that while the idea of tolerance is fine and noble, there are some things you just can not tolerate at all.
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    • Posted by bsmith51 4 years, 11 months ago
      The quisling in the oval office has his feet up in satisfaction that the destabilization and destruction that bring about fundamental transformation are taking place, not just in the USA but everywhere.
      Does Merkel have her feet up too?
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  • Posted by Lucky 4 years, 11 months ago
    Churchill said after Chamberlain’s appeasement:
    ‘You were given the choice between war and dishonour.
    You chose dishonour, and you will have war.”"
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    • Posted by khalling 4 years, 11 months ago
      yea, lucky-we've been in this war since the Barbary pirates. It ain't working out. Iran held hostages for a year in 1979 and we just struck an ugly trade deal with them-giving them much needed cash to kill us. we had 2 Bush wars, ahmm, and a peace war with Clinton. who do we bomb next and then let them make their own theocracy after?
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      • Posted by wiggys 4 years, 11 months ago
        we carpet bomb the entirety of the middle east to include Saudi Arabia with nukes.
        these mindless poor excuses for humans are still in the 7th century and it matters not what is done short of getting rid of them they will not stop because that is how they are directed by the mullahs.
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        • Posted by khalling 4 years, 11 months ago
          I am not against using military force even indiscriminately as Jefferson did. However, the deaths of 300 people do not justify wiping out all arabs. they are are human beings, therefore capable of using their rational facilities. To condemn every las one is NOT rational. where is your outcry over the downing of the Russian plane-hardly anything on this site about it. Jefferson and Madison used indiscriminate bombing to achieve a specific purpose. Just the wipe out of a people is not a rational response. Objectivists hold that people have value. This is ultimately a war of ideas.
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          • Posted by wiggys 4 years, 11 months ago
            what happened to the Russian plane was nothing less than paris or the world trade center.
            I agree that EDUCATED people can be rational. the muslims are neither people or educated and that is where you refuse to go. number one you may not remember my background of growing up next to a sirian community in Brooklyn and number two I strongly recommend "the foreign policy of self interest" by Peter Schwartz a student as well as friend of Ayn Rand. he deals with the muslim situation in depth and one does learn from the book. where is the outrage from the muslims about other muslims doing these things. it isn't because they bow to the mullahs with out questioning what is done. for wortld piece they must be done away with. the sooner the better.
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            • Posted by khalling 4 years, 11 months ago
              wiggys, I would respond-and I am not avoiding you, but I know there are several in the Gulch who would make an O argument. I am currently fighting in a wider audience and will focus on that for a day or two. you already know my argument. I am not ignoring your comments. I am reading everything in the Gulch.
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          • Posted by jdg 4 years, 11 months ago
            Agree. The right way to use military force is what we did in WW2. Conquer the enemy country, systematically dismantle Nazism (in this case jihadism) and outlaw the teaching of it, and occupy the country for 50+ years afterward to make sure the change sticks (or better yet, permanently annex the place and abolish its language and culture, too).

            In ANY conflict where we aren't prepared to go that far and stay the course -- even against the opposition of the American people -- we shouldn't fight at all, because it is a complete waste of American blood and treasure.

            The Roman Republic may have had the right idea. Whenever they started a war, they appointed a dictator to lead it.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 4 years, 11 months ago
            Yes, and the problem is that the idea called Islam is not rationally based. One can not rationally deal with people who are willing to die for their religion, or who are willing to inflict harm on others who do not believe in their religion - especially when they are winning!

            There are an estimated 1.6 billion Muslims on earth out of a total population of about 7 billion give or take. And those who by polling who agree with the tenets of Islam and support terrorism are about 1/2 of these. I don't know about you, but that's a lot of people who you aren't going to be able to reason with - a lot of people for whom the only answer is the sword.

            I don't fault you for wanting to talk to them, but the first thing that will have to take place before that will be possible is to put them in a position where they are forced to come to grips with the evil that is the religion of coercion. And for many, that wont take place until many around them are dead.

            I don't support going into the Middle East, guns blazing, just so you know. But I also don't support bringing them here to our nation, where they refuse to live by our standards and ideals.
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  • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
    I am beginning to wonder if these terrorist were not among the Syrian immigrants pouring into Europe-... but with a plan and a purpose- to kill.

    The communication from Isis is now stating that they want American blood and soon will have it...

    Now, Paris under curfew for the first time since WWII.

    Above and beyond this tragedy and how it too will change the World like 9/11 has, I am by no means confident that we can face these changes with any modicum of reason with the "Zero" we have leading us and responding to this world crisis.
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    • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago
      Oh no way, JC... Isis would NEVER infiltrate their agents fron Syria in with the Syrian refugees being allowed unfettered across the borders... Aren't you glad our government wants to lead the way and bring in 100,000 syrian infiltrators, er, refugees...
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      • Posted by $ blarman 4 years, 11 months ago
        It already is done. And the vast majority are...

        young men aged 18-35.

        Not women, children, or the elderly, but the very age groups that sympathize with terrorists all over the world.

        Thanks, State Department!
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    • Posted by khalling 4 years, 11 months ago
      looking at the past few terrorist attacks, they were performed by well-two British citizens on the 293 deaths from the russian plane (why is no one outraged by that attack?!) Jihad John was a british native
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      • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
        Khalling: Fair point, well said. Could it be that they were, in origin, Arabic and/or naturalized citizens
        and most likely of Islamic religion?

        This would present a different picture than a, let's say, multi-generational full-blooded British citizen.
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        • Posted by khalling 4 years, 11 months ago
          fair point. condemn their two year old children as well. is that where we are at JC? they shock and awed us-and we respond with lack of philosophical foundation. we just ...what? shock and awe? cuz the wars siince 79 have worked? what is your plan Phil? (my fav sitcom) :)
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          • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
            That, my dear Khalling, is the question of the century... that has no apparent answer.
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            • Posted by blackswan 4 years, 11 months ago
              This kind of inane discussion didn't take place after Pearl Harbor, and no one was interested in "fairness" and changing hearts and minds. All we did was take it to their asses, and we didn't stop until they surrendered unconditionally. Why is there such a problem now?
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 4 years, 11 months ago
                That was in the days of a democratically elected Republic not a budding replacement for Socialist Leadership. Different times you judge by the context of their time. Our time you judge in the context of today.
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              • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
                Blackswan: You say, "This kind of inane discussion didn't take place after Pearl Harbor..."
                Well, we didn't have the atomic bomb yet either. The development came later on the race to invent something powerful enough to keep from continuing to lose several more 100's of thousands of our soldiers to the Japanese. That invention led to where we are today with nuclear power and is one of the reasons we are in this mess in the first place since we are constantly harassing, as we should, Iran over their attempt to develop one of their own. Now, you either drop another one or two or three and risk creating total world chaos because that very act would trigger the beginning of a disintegration of any world order. And because that is the only way to get it over with without dragging it out with continued horrifying attacks from both sides.

                Now, if you think 9/11 and the Russian plane bombing and the Paris attacks are worth killing millions more to "take it to their asses until they surrender..."

                It is never wrong to contemplate the collateral damage to such an action. I respect Khalling for her concern for such a volatile situation and I repeat that it does not have an apparent answer. Now, you can take that to mean what you declare is, and I paraphrase here," a pansy ass response and that nobody is interested in fairness or changing hearts and minds." Well then I am certainly guilty.
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      • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
        Khalling: On your question of "Why is no one outraged..." by the Isis attack on the Russian plane? Now that is a conundrum. I was thinking about this last night while the Isis attack was happening in Paris. The number of dead in the plane explosion is sobering. I do not understand why there was not more said about this only a few points come to mind:
        -It was not declared immediately a terrorist attack, in fact, there seemed a reluctance to even suggest it. Only after almost a week did they rule that it was indeed a bomb planted by Isis. And, by that time, the momentum of the tragedy was lost -as far as the news goes.
        -Russia never really made a statement to the world on this atrocity. It was as though it was, "no big deal" for the Russians. I kept waiting to see an aggressive and angry response from Putin... did I miss something?
        -Russia had been sanctioned by Syria to bomb there and this move was not supported by the US-European/Western Allies. Maybe, at that time, this was a way for the US and Europe to turn a cold shoulder to the Russians? Like,"You're on your own here buddy." I hate to think this but there could be some truth here?

        P.S. I just made my first post, "The Crusades vs Islam"
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  • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago
    SOunds like this thing is still growing over there... meaning it's so fubar no one knows whats going on. Then again, it's what, midnightish there.

    Oh yeah, Obama says he won't call Allande at this time... Nothing like showing some forward leaning, dude.

    My concern... if this thing is growing in Paris, and is that coordinated, it could spread as Friday night spreads...

    And to add to the insanity... Allande is just now working to take steps to close the border... like closing the barn door...
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    • Posted by broskjold22 4 years, 11 months ago
      Susanne, I'm sorry about this. It's hard to have friends go through this. It's important for you to know that we are with you.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 4 years, 11 months ago
        Time to cast perceived differences aside. True altruism is friends in need,
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 4 years, 11 months ago
          As we used to say choose sides or get caught in the middle. I am not a fan of the French but they are my kind not matter how ...many times we have to dig them out of a hole they dug for themselves. Same goes for the Scandihoovians.
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          • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
            MichaelA: Well said. I too am not a fan. But I would say that there is a difference between the Parisians and the rest of France. Paris is their Washington. So you can imagine.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 4 years, 11 months ago
              Completely agreed and the comparison to Washington DC. No one should be saddled with the ignominous attentions of either city. As the waiter said to the college student in Gotcha. Nice For You. Nice is being outside of Paris and DC. Last time near there a group from my ship asked if I was going to visit DC. "No...I'm afraid my passport is near expiration and I dont' want to be caught on the wrong side of the border. They might not let me back in the United States."
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    • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
      Susanne: the French police are really hard nosed. The American police are rather mild compared. When Disney was considering where to put their European Disneyland (EuroDisney) they had wanted Italy and in particular for the climate and centralized access. However, the Italian police system was considered wholly inadequate. It surprises me that this has happened in Paris, again. I do work there and can tell you that they have a really excellent intelligence network. Unbelievable. It leads me to think that we may not be so safe here either...

      The count now of the dead stands at 158.
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      • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago
        I hope so as they keep letting people in willy nilly from the middle east... It is al part of the plan - get the refugees flowing, and put your fighters in with the refugees. No passport, no visa, no nothing. The KGB should have been that smart...
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    • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago
      Not me personally - my daughter has friends that live there, but Paris is a BIG city.

      OTOH... there's a reason we left the 'urbs... kinda glad I don't live in a big city.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 4 years, 11 months ago
    There has been a Muslim enclave in Paris where even the police fear to go. How is this possible? It is a invitation to terror. Like being subjected to a virulent disease and then wondering why you came down with it.
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  • Posted by bsmith51 4 years, 11 months ago
    First understand, the terrorists see their murder as a Defensive - not offensive - Act, in that they are defending their faith.

    The Qu'ran is a book not of stories but of commands as to what to believe, how to behave, and rules for tribal society. Primary among these is the call to kill or subjugate infidels. Every word of the Qu'ran is regarded by the faithful as the direct, unassailable word of Allah. Any person who would advocate to change any one word or interpretation is subject to prosecution as an apostate and punishment of death under the sharia.
    There is no dinner table discussion in families about this. Family members who question the faith are frequently ratted out by other family members and often severely punished or killed. This is considered as a family strengthening policy.

    Islam is a culture of death enforced by a culture of fear that will NEVER reform itself.

    What to do? Western societies should band together and deport ALL Muslims outside of western civilization, cut off ALL trade, deny them technology and all the benefits of civilization that they have been enjoying. Only then will Islam perhaps reform itself and only then should they be considered for membership in civilized society. If this seems radical, consider that Muhammed's armies surrounded infidel city-states and, driving to the center, left nothing alive.
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  • Posted by term2 4 years, 11 months ago
    Why are we all waging war on ISIS and expecting them NOT to retaliate? We are in their lands in the middle of a regional religious conflict. We (USA) should announce we are neutral in their battle and then stay out of it and get our troops and guns out of there and let them settle their own religious issues. If Russia wants to put themselves in it, LET THEM.
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  • Posted by bsmith51 4 years, 11 months ago
    Some history (from my brother) that most Americans, I believe, do not know:

    "The first Crusade is given the time frame of 1096 - 1099. 364 years before that, in 732, the invading Muslim army was defeated at the Battle of Tours in what is now north central France. They had crossed the Mediterranean Sea and invaded Iberia in 711 so it was only 21 years until they crossed the Pyrenees Mountains and invaded France.

    During the Crusades, the Christian armies were called "Franks" by the Muslims. The Franks, of course, were the ones who had defeated them at the Battle of Tours. So these cowardly swine are not trying to right the wrongs of the Crusades, they are trying to get revenge for their defeat 364 years earlier at the Battle of Tours! I guess they believe they should have won that battle and conquered all of Europe in the 8th Century. Obviously, they will never stop trying until they are eliminated from the planet entirely."
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    • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
      Bsmith51: You are right and your brother's information is correct. See my new post, "Crusades vs Islam" category "History". It is a very interesting video on this very subject.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
    US aggression, a Ron Paul pointed out, will invite all the peoples of the many countries that we have offended with our aggressive interventions to pile on big time. Retaliation will be vicious. All in the West (who have been pressured by the US to form a "coalition") will be blamed and “punished” even though the tragic mess was orchestrated by the few who manipulated foreign policy for their own benefit.

    ISIS is saying that the attacks were in retaliation for intervention in Syria and Iraq. Victims have long memories. Now France and the US will gear up to intervene even more, and we get into a situation where WWIII starts.

    Even the worst dictators convince themselves that their war mission is justified, if not noble. The talk of compromise between two versions of government intervention is only a matter of “my authoritarianism” versus “your authoritarianism.”

    I think the US needs to get its nose out of the 900+ military bases it has in 140+ nations and let the folks in those places go fight among themselves. After all, reports are that ISIS and Al Qaeda.are already fighting each other.



    But, I bet this will escalate and the top 25 military equipment supplier will love it. Retaliation will come to our shores again. Time to move to some place safer.
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    • Posted by bsmith51 4 years, 11 months ago
      I suggest a history lesson re: Islam. I have provided it in a separate post, here.
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      • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
        The Islamic people are still avenging the Crusades. If we keep doing what we have always done, we will keep getting what we always got. More war. Perhaps it is time to change tactics.
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        • Posted by DrZarkov99 4 years, 11 months ago
          Islam started on the point of the sword, raging across the Middle East and North Africa, subjugating all before it, slaughtering those who would not yield. Only when Charles ("The Hammer") Martel, the Frank, stopped the Muslim invasion of Europe at the Battle of Tours in 732 did their attempt to conquer the world halt, temporarily.

          Every century or so since then, the Muslims have attempted to complete their conquest, and each time one European monarch or another has managed to stop them. To try to paint their latest pageant of blood as a result of "Western aggression" is, quite frankly, BS!
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          • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
            Dr.Z: I just posted a video on this subject (a picture is worth a thousand words!).
            I believe it expresses exactly your point.

            See under "New" category "History"
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        • Posted by bsmith51 4 years, 11 months ago
          The Muslims invaded Iberia (Spain) in 711ad. 21 years later, they crossed the Pyrenees and invaded France, where the Franks defeated them at the Battle of Tours in 732ad.

          The Crusades have nothing to do with it. Islam's call to the faithful to kill or subjugate infidels and establish a world caliphate is the problem.
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          • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
            How is that different from Christian history?
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            • Posted by bsmith51 4 years, 11 months ago
              Are you trying to draw a moral equivalence between post reformation Christianity and no-reformation present day Islam?
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              • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
                Not all. My point is simply that at some point in a war that has lasted 1,000 years one must rethink the tactics used to end the war --- if ending it is what the goal is. Both the Christians and the Muslims have repeatedly done the same thing time after time: retaliation. Obviously, that has not worked. New Zealand has tried a different approach to criminal activities (there is some relationship between criminal and terrorist activities) and have been quite successful. But, as Ron Paul points out, the Arabs keep repeating they are retaliating for the West being on their territory. Why not have, for example, the US stop meddling in other peoples' affairs, close all if 900+ bases in 140+ countries and mind our own business instead of behaving as the imperialist nation our last 200 year history reveals..
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                • Posted by bsmith51 4 years, 11 months ago
                  I totally get Ron Paul's point. But my answer to you is: because the Qu'ran tells the faithful to go out into the world and smite at the necks of the infidel, which they tried to do 350 years before the Crusades. That's the essence of my point, that they are commanded by their holy book - which is purported to be the direct, unassailable word of Allah - to bring their war to us, to establish a world caliphate. Islam is a different breed of cat. Leaving their world to them won't stop that quest.
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                  • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
                    I agree in part. The Bible tells the people to do the same thing and multiply. Which the Christians did for centuries during which they annihilated entire populations. For example in the southern part of South America, the Christians did not leave one person surviving (even converts) giving rise to the phrase "Kill them all and let God sort it out" philosophy of the murders.

                    Going back to years before the Crusades does not help, in my opinion, today because we humans have learned a lot during the interim period.

                    In any event, since the policy followed for a thousand years has not changed, and since we are now 1,000 years later during which the Christians changed somewhat, I think we need to look at different tactics. We need to act more like our cousins the bobono than chimps.
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        • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 4 years, 11 months ago
          Crusades? You do realize that the Crusades were a response to the islamic invasion of Europe (where the islmaic horde conquered Spain and took slaves.) after the fall of the Roman Empire?

          History.
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          • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
            It was not the invasion of Europe it was about the middle east, and that is exactly my point. This war goes back and forth with no end in sight. The first of the Crusades began in 1095, when armies of Christians from Western Europe responded to Pope Urban II’s plea to go to war against Muslim forces in the Holy Land. After the First Crusade achieved its goal with the capture of Jerusalem in 1099, the invading Christians set up several Latin Christian states, and the Muslims in the region vowed to wage war to retake the land. This is the same fight after 1,000 years for a piece of dirt claimed by both to be religiously theirs.
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        • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
          Esceptico: I just posted on this subject, "The Crusades vs Islam", It's a new post under History...
          I think you might find it interesting.
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          • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
            I watched the video. I do not see how it applies. All he says is there have wars between Christians and Muslims for 1,000+ years and Muslims are the bad guys. I agree they are the bad guys. That is not the issue. The issue is how to contain them and my view is to let them kill each other --- which they would do if we would get the hell out of the area. It is not our fight. For those who want to fight, then I say volunteer to go fight and donate money. Don't force me to pay for it.
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            • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
              Esceptico: Then your statement that, "The Islamic people are still avenging the Crusades", is too loosely stated since it could be interpreted that they have some inherent historical reason/right to "avenge" something against the West. It is clear that they do not.

              Fundamentally, I agree with many of your comments but the truth is built upon brick by brick and if the house of truth is to be able to stand it requires that every brick be in place. Even one brick in the wrong place will erode the truth.
              -The French opted to bomb on their own. They did not confer with "O", actually it was more a slap in the face to Washington.
              On the Crusades and Islam some of your statements are not factual:
              -it is about European invasion by Islamic jihadists and not vice versa.
              -it did start with the Islamic invasions and after with European retaliation.
              -there is no historical truth that Islamists are the victims with the right to avenge

              I agree that it would be ideal if the Islamic nations would expiate their own sins/failings and not export them, transfer them to the responsibility of other nations. They should close their borders and either decimate each other or agree to what differences they accept to honor. Either way, the Western world would come out a winner.

              I by no means want a WWIII. I agree with you on this and I agree that the situation is highly volatile. However, the more truth we know, the more we can understand, the better decisions we make.
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              • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
                Look, I have no idea where you are coming from.But, it is obvious that you prefer to argue than discuss. My statement the "The Islamic people are still avenging the Crusades" was stated to me by a Muslim. In addition, the Paris issue is personal to me because most of my family lives in Paris. Faith and Force, and Rand put it, are the destroyers of the world. Want to go fight? Go do it. And, get donors to pay for it. I object to money being taken from me to go fight a fight I think is not being managed properly.
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                • Posted by JCLanier 4 years, 11 months ago
                  I stand with you Esceptico and I am truly sorry that you have family in Paris. I hope they are safe and I hope you have heard from them.
                  I understand what you are trying to say and we agree on many of these points.
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                  • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
                    Thank you. Yes, Most of the family lives in Paris, none were involved, but they say Paris is "a mess" at the moment. Now is probably a safer time to visit because the terrorists will most likely not strike again until things calm down, a la Beirut and the other cities they love to bomb.

                    We are in Arica, Chile, and were watching CNN Chile when the news hit saying Paris had at least 3 explosions with 16 known dead. This was within an hour of when they occurred
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                • Posted by DrZarkov99 4 years, 11 months ago
                  Looking at all of your various posts, it's obvious you don't understand the mass psychosis of a mass movement. There isn't an option to "leave the Middle East alone." History shows that left unreformed, Islam will result in the "strongest horse" finally gaining control over other Muslim elements, and after slaughtering any remaining Christians, the next target will be the annihilation of Israel. Israel will not go easily, and nuclear annihilation of most of the Middle East will likely result, creating an environmental disaster affecting us all.

                  Should the Muslim "strong horse" decide the only way to subjugate Israel is to eliminate its Western allies, the attacks on Europe and the Americas will only step up, regardless what we do. This is a war of civilization against barbarism, and standing on the sidelines will only make you one of the innocent bystanders (or "collateral damage" as it's called in the military).
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                  • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
                    Could be you are right, I always leave that option open. But Isreal is not a US fight. For those who want to support Isreal, I say go do it. But the US government should not be involved. As to most of the rest, to me it has the "selling fear" odor. I can tell you are fervent in your belief. But, then, so are those on the other side. I think the US needs to protect the US, and follow the advice of Pres Washington: Trade with all but don't mess around in the politics and troubles of other nations.
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                    • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago
                      By what right did the UN - a political body that had just been formed - claim to own the land of Palestine - one of the most religiously "Hot" pieces of dirt on the planet - or at least claim "Eminent domain" on it - and after so doing relocate thousands of foreign nationals on this "reposessed" land, call it Israel (because, gee, it'd be cool to direct world events from a biblical perspective), and let the Jews (who back then no one wanted except through guilt - for the horror inflicted on them by another superpower) fight it out. Maybe they'll die... maybe they won't. But since we gave them some land (we as the UN stole from someone else, BTW), our collective guilt over ignoring what had happened in Germany is assuaged.

                      It would be like this so-called Islamic State Caliphate, once they had the military might, deciding they owned the southeast corner of the USA and declaring eminent domain on it, calling it "New Mecca", and then sending every Islamist that does not strictly follow their brand of Islam to it. Make it a Muslim Homeland. And then arming them to the teeth, and providing military might to kick the ass of the rest of the USA because we didn't agree with it, and wanted to push these "newcomers" back into the sea.
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                    • Posted by DrZarkov99 4 years, 11 months ago
                      The U.S. has held Israel back numerous times, thanks to our economic connections, but if survival becomes the issue, they won't be prepared to be cautious, no matter what we say.

                      Ignore history if you will, but the worst, most backward elements of Islam are on the ascendant, and are already promising they intend to see all Americans forced to submit to the will of Allah. When someone tells me he intends to kill me, I tend to take him seriously.
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                • Posted by mccannon01 4 years, 11 months ago
                  Esceptico, I think the Muslim giving you the history lesson forgot the part where a good piece of the Middle East and North Africa was a "Christianized" Roman Empire before Mohammad was even born. When he and his followers came on the scene they slaughtered and enslaved their way through the Jewish and Christian regions of the ME and NA all the way into parts of Europe including France and Austria. The crusades were a poorly planned and executed counter attack in defense of Christendom, but fortunately for us did manage to preserve what would become Western Civilization as we know it. When it comes to discussing this matter, Muslims seem to start with the crusades as an incursion on Muslim territory and "conveniently" forget the invading Muslim activity that lead up to those events. The Muslims would like us to forget that part of history, too. Do not fall for that propaganda because pre-crusade Muslim history is what truly defines it's ideology, even as it still exists today.
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                  • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
                    Assuming, arguendo, all of this is true. The question in today's world is: so what? It seems to me you are trying to justify the 1,000 year war by giving reasons why --- from centuries ago --- we should keep up the fight. My point is the time has come to change tactics. The old revenge tactic is not only not working, it is escalating the war on both sides.
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                    • Posted by mccannon01 4 years, 11 months ago
                      My post was in address to your statement "The Islamic people are still avenging the Crusades" as told to you by a Muslim. By innuendo the Muslim expects you to believe the lie that the problem began with the crusades and, therefore, the Mohammedans have some axe to grind with Western Civilization. The historical facts prove otherwise. It isn't MY justification, but that lie is THEIR justification make war on the West. The "so what" is having a knowledge of its history can give an insight to what Islam is all about. The "so what" is the totalitarian nature of Islam hasn't changed in 1400 years and you need some historical knowledge to understand that. The "so what" is if Western Civilization wants to retain any of its liberty it must resist Islamic incursion. One lesson of history provided to us by the crusades is if Islam is given a good kick in the teeth and knocked on its butt, like any bully, it will leave you alone at least for a while.

                      Yes, some tactics have changed as in instead of visible invading armies, the Mohammedans are using more infiltration and terror tactics. This tactic is actually made easier by the West's adherence to, among other things, false doctrines such as "political correctness" and multiculturalism. The jihadists use these doctrines as "Trojan horses" to get behind the walls of Western Civilization and bring it down.
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                      • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
                        I agree with 90% of what you are saying. I think we have the same goal: eliminate the use of force and fraud. The issue is how best to accomplish that end.

                        What I would like to see is to dull the axe they have to grind by us getting out of their hair, but letting them know harm a hair on the head of western people and they die.

                        But, the tactic I think has to change is we (we = US in this context even though I am in Chile) have to stop interfering in their politics. 100 years ago, there was no Iraq and no Israel. The mideast is not a US problem. Time to bring our military home.
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                    • Posted by Eyecu2 4 years, 11 months ago
                      While I agree that current tactics are not working and that past tactics have also failed. I have to ask what you suggest.

                      I personally think obliterating enemies is the only workable solution but am willing to listen to other options at this point. Though if personally threatened I will take as many with me as possible.
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                      • Posted by Esceptico 4 years, 11 months ago
                        If personally threatened, and I have been in that position, I would kill the attacker. But we are talking about policy issues which go beyond individuals and deal with what the nation should do. A good start would be make sure the US is protected and close the 900+ bases in 140+ foreign countries. I am in Chile at the moment, and asked several people what they would think about the US presence in Chile. They are not happy.

                        For Chilean civil society, which has longtime experience with US interventionism going way back to the dark days of the Augusto Pinochet military dictatorship, the Concón base raises eyebrows. Human rights groups charge that the actual design of the base - which simulates an urban zone with eight buildings as well as sidewalks and roads - suggests that the Chilean military is interested in repressing protest. According to United Press International, Concón "is growing into a major destination for regional military trainers and defence industry contractors".

                        The facility is run by the US Southern Command, headquartered in Miami, Florida. The US, which, ever since the nationalist/populist regime of Rafael Correa booted Washington out of its base in Manta, Ecuador,(I think a good move even though I do not like Correa) the US has been on a quest to find alternative sites in South America.

                        When they do, if it follows the Manta example, areas of the sea become off limits to local fisherman (as one example) and they blame the US. Locals have uncomfortable memories of US-backed military dictatorship, and do not look fondly upon the intrusion.

                        So what to do? I think Ron Paul is on the right track. In his recent book he outlines it pretty well.
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          • Posted by $ nickursis 4 years, 11 months ago
            JCL, I originally thought that this was all caused by a hangover from the Crusades and the whole Muslim war in europe adventure. Then I saw a program about Hitlers Arabs and found out the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Mohammed Hussein, in the 20's-30's, was an extreme Jew Hater, and he allied with the Nazis, and spent WW2 in Germany. He advocated killing all the jews so they didn't go to Palestine, and made very nasty radio broadcasts through WW2 to the middle east. According to what they said, he basically programmed the arab world into the Jihad idea, against the jews, and instigated numerous attacks against them. he led the battle to destroy the initial Israeli gov't and was considered the patron of the modern Arab political ideal. Whats was more interesting, was Hitler "Best" soldier, a guy named Skorzeny worked post war with numerous ex Nazis to train the Egyptian Army. This was also said to be the real reason that there is such a hatred between the Arabs and Jews, and their mind set was established by the Mufti as "no price to high" for their death. It seems that whole attitude then twisted in the wind to include anyone and everyone who does not support their particular view, and is treated in the Nazi way: we'll just kill you. So, the reflection is this is essentially a continuation of the whole WW2 battles, just with different players.

            http://www.jpost.com/page.aspx?articl...

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Sk...
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  • Posted by wiggys 4 years, 11 months ago
    since 1979 when the muslims took the American hostages and every hostile act that has taken place since in the judeo Christian world perpetrated by muslims against us not one word of anger has come from the "so called good muslims" saying that this has to stop. that said if we make the desert into glass which will eliminate those who the isis group is supposedly holding hostage will not matter. if they are unwilling to fight for themselves and they therefore support the bad guys they too are the enemy. the only way to end the attacks is by eliminating the muslims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they are in my opinion the missing link!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! after 911 we saw thousands of young men volunteer to go to war. is that happening in france? maybe they should ask putin to step up his raids since both countries have lost the lives of citizens because of muslims. he would probably do it and he would call them terrorists versus what comes out of the mealy mouth of 0!!!!!!!
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  • Posted by $ Temlakos 4 years, 11 months ago
    For everyone's information: Les Halles is more than the kind of shopping center you and I are familiar with. Les Halles is the largest open-air marketplace-within-a-city in the world. Les Halles is famous for never sleeping. You can buy anything there. Even, shall we say, companionship. I would imagine the attitude of the police is just as lax as that depicted in Jack Lemmon's motion-picture project, Irma la Douce.

    I would also surmise that of course ISIS would regard Irma as anything but "sweet," and would seek to kill her, and all the other Irmas.

    That's why they struck Les Halles, in addition to its sheer size and, more to the point, the size of the crowds it regularly draws.
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  • Posted by DeanStriker 4 years, 11 months ago
    Read the source, but couldn't get the video to play -- just sat there spinning.

    ISIS, like Al Qaeda and more, is not a Nation, it's just a horde of renegades. In this world where we're accustomed to Nations making wars, this seems bewildering. If this is a trigger for WW3, then Obama has an excuse to cancel or suspend the 2016 election. OMGoodness!
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 4 years, 11 months ago
    A small handful of terrorist accomplished this. Let us stop and punish all initiation of force no matter from what "cause" and swiftly without getting off in the weeds of blaming all of Islam or Muslims immigrants generally. The latter is the path of collectivism and we would do well to avoid it.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 4 years, 11 months ago
    I'd hardly think of France as 'Rational' or any other place in Europe...but 'We'...in the current idiotic climate... aren't much better...depends upon where the hit happens.
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