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The disgrace of my inbox

Posted by $ SarahMontalbano 8 years, 5 months ago to Education
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I checked my email today, and as a high school student looking to go into college soon, I get a lot of information about different colleges. This was a snippet from University of Notre Dame, telling me about pre-college programs I could enroll in:
Confronting Poverty: Bringing Service to Justice—Through an interdisciplinary lens, this course aims to answer the enduring question: Why are people poor? Students will explore the forces that maintain poverty and the forces that resist it. This unique course will also offer students the opportunity to engage in the local community to understand poverty through facts and lived experience. By the end of the course, students should have a sense of the history of poverty and of how poverty could become history.

How is THAT supposed to attract me?

(I just had to share this one, but there's been quite a few of a similar strain from different universities - goodness, public education is a mess!)


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  • 13
    Posted by Mamaemma 8 years, 5 months ago
    Sarah, my daughter excitedly signed up for a college freshman seminar course on individualism, only to discover that the whole course was about the evils of individualism and the goodness of collectivism. It was all she could do to barely pass the course, because you can imagine how open minded the professor was!
    She says she was afraid to speak up in college because all the students were such hopeless liberals (expensive private college), so she didn't realize until senior year how many conservatives there actually were on campus! She is a big Rand fan. So seek out like minded people when you get there, and remember that it is young people like you who matter!
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    • Posted by gaiagal 8 years, 5 months ago
      Hello Mama - my daughter is a nursing student. She is having a difficult time because of her Objectivist views. What's sad is that the other students actively encourage the new young students not to disagree with their teachers, or they may fail out of the program.

      My daughter was listening to a group of students talk about a girl, who the previous semester, received a B instead of an A because she was outspoken about the individualized medical care. My daughter, after hearing a few of the examples, realized they were referring to her.

      My daughter has, because of a genetic disorder that reared its ugly head when she was 6 months old,, quite a bit experience on the patient side of medical care. This has resulted in her not only having the physical and psychological experience of being a frequent flyer patient but an acute awareness of the changes that have taken place in how health care is administered. Changes such as in patient-doctor relationships and the involvement in cost as a deciding factor, rather than medical need, for treatments that are offered as a result of increasing government involvement.

      Liberal political policy is taught right alongside every medical subject. I was amazed at how it was squeezed in with even anatomy.

      What is most interesting is my daughter states the other students don't appear to even realize there are other schools of thought...and become fidgety and angry when she expresses her point of view. The majority do this even as they are stating that what is happening doesn't appear to be right. They just can't pinpoint why certain statements made by the instructor don't appear "right."

      Seems as if some kids are forever walking around in a state of cognitive dissonance.
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years, 5 months ago
        Gaigal, it is nothing lessthan heartbreaking to see what is happening in our healthcare system. It mirrors perfectly what is happening in our country. I wish your daughter the best. As we say in the south, she has a hard row to hoe.
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    • Posted by khalling 8 years, 5 months ago
      well Hello,mama!
      I was appalled that my kids had to do a semester project (for entrance into college) of community service. It included a project at the end where they had list off what they learned about the poor and disadvantaged in the community-NOT anything about what the community was doing well. The Food bank, which I used to sit in some committees for, loved the slave labor. The most eye-opening experiences my kids witnessed had to do with people convicted who had community service as part of their sentencing. gah!
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      • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
        Exactly! I haven't fulfilled my requirements yet, but as part of a club I'm in, I have to complete a small amount of community service. I'm not looking forward to it.
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 5 months ago
          Make sure that the community service is in your self-interest. Outreach to the public is officially a minor part of my job, so I don't really consider it community service. However, how I outreach to the public is my business. I choose to use it as an opportunity to recruit talented, likeminded individuals to achieve my research goals. The one research project I am working on that might interest you is the development of 3D-printed scaffolds on which we grow either small diameter blood vessels or the interfaces between tendons or ligaments and bone. I am usually looking for someone to handle the cell culture aspects. I am better at the engineering than the biology.
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    • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 5 months ago
      Mama Emma... is there any kind of website or other clearinghouse where evidence of that kind of stupidity and immorality can be listed, posted and offered up to try to educate people who think all colleges and universities today are actually offering 'useful educations'???

      Link, suggestions, volunteers?
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years, 5 months ago
        Plusaf, I have no idea. My focus was raising my children to be advocates of reason and individuality. Early on in their education I realized I could not influence the "establishment". This country as a whole is long past the point when facts mattered.
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  • 11
    Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 5 months ago
    Please consider a non-tenure-granting, private university that provides value-for-value exchange. I am a professor of chemical and biomedical engineering at Florida Tech. You can check out my nanotechnology minor program in the Marketplace.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
      Thank you. I intend to be a molecular biologist; do you have degree programs in molecular biology?
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 5 months ago
        In fact, molecular biology is one of our stronger areas. Dr. Charles Polson teaches our molecular biology class and several follow-on electives.
        http://www.fit.edu/faculty/profiles/p...

        http://www.fit.edu/programs/7025/bs-b...

        There are very few liberal faculty at Florida Tech and some Objectivists. I enjoy educating future Galts. Our next open house is on Saturday the 21st. The weather is wonderful right now. About 80, going up to 84, with a low of 68. This place really is paradise.

        Regarding molecular biology vs. biomedical engineering, if you get tired of school after a B.S. degree, then the engineering degree will be enough for a lifelong career. To be a molecular biologist, you really have to get the Ph.D. to open up your career possibilities. But then again, you wouldn't be in the Gulch unless you enjoyed education.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 5 months ago
    One doesnt need to go to college to understand poverty. Poverty is simply the result in most cases of laziness or refusal to accept the facts of reality. Some could be due to disability issues, but I really dont think thats what they are talking about. Having multiple babies and not working can easily make you poor also. How can you work if you have to stay home. Solutions to most of these things is for people to take responsibility for their lives and make them better.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 8 years, 5 months ago
    RE: Why are people poor? Having worked for Family Services in Wyoming for 15 years (child/adult protection and juvenile probation), this is the best "explanation" I've come across.

    http://homepages.wmich.edu/~ljohnson/...
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    • Posted by gaiagal 8 years, 5 months ago
      "- if an individual cannot plan, he or she cannot predict.

      - If an individual cannot predict, he or she cannot identify cause and effect.

      - If an individual cannot identify cause and effect, he or she cannot identify consequence.

      - If an individual cannot identify consequence, he or she cannot control impulsivity.

      - If an individual cannot control impulsivity, he or she has an inclination to criminal
      behavior."

      Thank you for the article. What I find interesting is, in my experience of observing later middle class generations, the rules of generational poverty are spilling over into the middle class.

      As the article states, poverty is relative. Based on applying what I just read with what I have observed, a number of the middle class are becoming working poor. At least, for a time, they still have the option of following the hidden generational middle class rules...those rules are just becoming more difficult to find.
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years, 5 months ago
        The middle class ARE becoming the working poor, and it's by design. Our masters want us all to live on the liberal plantation. Disgusting. The middle class needs government subsidies in order to survive, which was a big reason for "Affordable Health Care".
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        • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 5 months ago
          Emma, you have this focused in very, very well, and Thank You!!! -- j
          .
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          • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years, 5 months ago
            Well, John, I just found out that my cheapest, doesn't pay for anything, health insurance will now be $1827 a month for my husband and me. And I have NO choice in the matter. It made it very clear that I do not live in a free country.
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            • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 5 months ago
              oh, no! . that's awful, and I wonder what process you might
              go through to get a better deal -- take the penalty hit and
              go with an association doing the catastrophic care thing??? -- j
              .
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              • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years, 5 months ago
                To be honest, John, my insurance premium is paid by my corporation in before tax dollars. The penalty would be of equal cost. There is no deal for me, and that's my point, that my country is effectively a dictatorship at this point. That's what upset me more than the money.
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                • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 5 months ago
                  you would be paying that much per month??? -- j

                  p.s. and Yes, Of Course, the loss of freedom is first;;;
                  it hurts having your free will amputated without anesthesia.
                  .
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 5 months ago
              I am finally unable to stay on my non-PPACA-compliant plan. I talked to one agent who had non-compliant policies. He quoted the premiums and the prices including the penalty. Apparently he has many customers who buy non-compliant plans that have basic medical underwriting, not all the preventative and psychological stuff required by 'ACA, and he regularly sells them to people who want insurance to protect their wealth without the bells the whistles required by PPACA.

              The only downside is his non-compliant plans are not HSA compatible. HSA is really powerful. We've been pouring in the max for years, investing it, and never pulling it out. It goes in tax-free, grows tax-free, and comes out tax-free. I think we're going to get a compliant plan to keep the ability to use HSA.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 5 months ago
    There was and is a lot to be said for the off campus programs of completing degrees. I had a choice of any university or college and taking any course that fit the degree requirements. One of the best to which I drove a hundred miles each way twice as week as a night school course featured a professor who was simultanously faculty adviser to "YAF and SDS. He had students from both debate each other on on questions the class submitted.The class was all over 30 and as old as 60 and all had Bachelors...Some were extemporaneous or impromptu some were advance warning. We never did figure out who the Professor would vote for int he upcoming election. One guest politician (it was a polysci course was G. Bush the first.) prior to his election. His opening remark? What do you want to talk about?

    The degree was issued by a university at the other end of the country.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 5 months ago
    Sarah Montalbano -

    johnpe asked me to look into this, but I can give you no advice that is better than jbrenner's. As a molecular biologist, you want to go somewhere that is a hotbed of CRISPR and Cas9 research, but Doudna (one of the main developers of that tech) is from Berkeley (with all that implies).

    CRISPR tech is well dispersed in industry, which probably means in Higher Ed as well. If Florida Tech is doing active research in CRISPR as part of having a good molecular bio dpt, then you should start with it at the top of your list.

    I could not find a CATO or other source that ranked the US universities per reasonable standards. Does anyone else have such a list for Sarah?

    Jan
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
      Thank you, Jan, for looking into it. I've read a lot about CRISPR and Cas9 research as part of my Science Olympiad events (Protein Modeling in particular). It's an exciting field of research and I might (key word) be willing to tolerate a Berkelian. Maybe.
      I've looking into Florida Tech's research projects and there are none associated with CRISPR or Cas.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 5 months ago
        The problem is that a science department does not live in an ideal world. Your world view, were it to be known, might well influence your grades and your prospects.

        Would you be comfortable spending 6 or 8 years holding your cards very close to your chest?

        Jan
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 5 months ago
          " Your world view, were it to be known, might well influence your grades and your prospects. "
          What's this world view? Does she believe in "ace erasure" or something. (Sorry, I find a way to work that term into any discussion about "safe spaces" on campus.) But really, as insane as the safe space thing is, I don't think it has any impact on someone studying biochemistry.
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          • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 5 months ago
            If she never spoke about anything other than molecular bio, you might be right. But if Sarah spoke up about her views on politics, then her grades and prospects in molecular bio could be negatively influenced - read some of the stories on this thread (and the news, which is talking about safe spaces a lot).

            I tried to look up "ace erasure" and found some comments but no technical definition. It seems to refer to a disapproval of someone choosing a solitary lifestyle. Can you clarify?

            Jan
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        • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
          It very well could influence my prospects and grades. Reading about the experience of gaiagal's daughter, who commented earlier, I don't want to put myself in the same situation. But would the benefit of a great technical education be worth the ideological ruins? I'm not sure as of yet.
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          • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 5 months ago
            Do you have the academic legs to go to MIT? I am seeing a lot of CRISPR work done there (more than at CalTech, though there is some there too).

            (You would have to keep your mouth shut - really the only course to steer. I am rather too outspoken for this to work well.)

            Jan
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            • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
              I really want to go to MIT, but it depends on how high I can get my SAT scores.
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              • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 5 months ago
                Thinking:

                Does it matter where you go for your undergrad degree, if you intend to go on for your PhD?

                Perhaps...the best solution may be to go to Florida Tech for your BS. Four years from now, FT might have CRISPR or CRISPR might be old hat by then and you would need to set your sights on the even-newer tech somewhere.

                This would allow you to get the feel of the ropes of the academic system at a college that at least tolerates diversity (!), Florida Tech, and then transfer somewhere else for grad/postgrad work. (And you would be able to talk to jbrenner!)

                Jan
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                • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
                  Florida Tech is looking like a good option, simply because it does tolerate diversity. My BS isn't going to matter as much as where I get my PhD, and it would probably be best to save some money for a top-notch grad school.
                  Thanks for your help Jan!
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                  • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 5 months ago
                    Sure. You have a peculiar problem in that you are the person that "Safe" zones are trying to exclude. Getting an education in such an environment will be no easy task.

                    Good luck.

                    Jan
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 5 months ago
    Testing your 'leftness' I can see exactly where that course would lead...and it would hardly be a happy ending. Doubt they will be talking about Ben Franklin's comments on the poor.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
      “I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
      - Ben Franklin

      It would definitely not be in his train of thought.
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  • Posted by edweaver 8 years, 5 months ago
    Sarah, the fact that you recognize what a mess public education is gives me hope. Don't let the system break you. As others have already stated, seek other like minds to get you through the system and check out Florida Tech as jbrenner suggests. I have not attended the school but he is a great contributor in the gulch & I don't believe he would steer you in the wrong direction.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 8 years, 5 months ago
    THAT'S a subject?!--I'm glad I stayed out of col-
    lege. I wasted enough time and money on tech
    courses, but at least it wasn't as bad as the four-
    year stuff would have been.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 5 months ago
    Sarah, I will say this in traditional terms -- I pray for your generation
    daily. . the stuff which you are facing sucks. . trying to find value
    in the horrid world of "higher education" is a challenge
    worthy of college credits itself. . I spent 23 years in school
    and dodged a bunch of the crap by going to engineering
    and business management ... but it still crept in.

    please consider the hard sciences if it interests you;;;
    you will feel more at home there, and probably be
    more of a producer in your life ... with objective value
    to offer for value in exchange....... but whatever you do,
    please work to find something which you can love doing!!! -- john
    .
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