I contend that I NEVER had the option of opting out of the SS plan when I began my career with the NYS dept of Corrections. You seem to feel that I did yet according to my retirement system they say you are wrong and I had no choice. What exactly would you like me to correct?
Go and do the research since you are the expert here on SS and prove to us all that I had the option of opting out.

Actually, any knowledge of America's history and the Constitution would show you that the U.S. gov'ts are not allowed to hold, save or earn interest on money they get from taxpayers.

Gary you want it. its there, you signed up for it...But, your comments about it were/are incorrect. For everyone here it is best we clarify and correct errors. If you don't want to help educate others; tell us why are you here?

In short they robbed us and promised to give us the money when we retire and now you say it isn't ours. It bloody well is ours. It is the government that is saying BS. Don't glorify it by acting like that is the truth and we are deluded.
That the government mismanaged the money and tries to renege doesn't change that. It is not "my mistake" as I was forced at gunpoint. It was not "me".

Agreed. I would happily take what I paid in as lump sum and sign a document that he government owes me nothing more and that they will take nothing more from me in SS fees.

Baloney. The last I checked I can get $1900/month from SS after having paid in $240K to date. At that rate the straight pay in, never mind interest it should have been accruing would last over 10 years.

I have seen my SS report. To date I have paid in $240,000. That money in even a modest market following investment account would have generated millions. Of that money I have to argue with government bureaucrats to get as much as perhaps $1900/month if I wait until I am 67 to draw it. Yet it was sold to me as "my" retirement account. If it is mine why can't i just draw the entire thing and invest it somewhere decent or use it as seed capital for my startup.

You did earn it. It is your own money with most of it stolen for other purposes.

I am 61 so not that far behind in age. Still working fulltime and going fulltime on a startup idea soon. The critieria for entering the fictional Gulch is in you head, not in how much money you generate. In the book not everyone was a major entrepreneur or powerful figure in some field before. As for the SS, well, they forced you to donate all of your life and then give you back a very small pittance from it.

I think we spend to much energy "hiring ourselves out" rather than finding and doing that which is of high value to ourselves.

Amen. Why do some folks want to get into my SS senior citizen hair around that bald spot?
Even my savings may go bye-bye should there be a huge economic collapse, rendering even cash useless..
Eat, drink and be merry!
For tomorrow we may all starve!

Well written Thinker! Fact is I have plenty of energy and plenty of valuable skills to survive here and in the gulch. What I lack for the gulch is the pocket full of gold on entrance but with the principal of value for value I can earn my own keep unless I get sidelined by old age or health issues. We are certainly talking about a fictional utopia none of us are likely to ever see. In a worst case scenario I might not be a full fledged permanent inhabitant in the gulch but I damn sure would be a fine security guard at the fence that I could both build and protect.

Give it a break Chesty! A couple grand extra in my pocket every month sure has made life a lot better for me. I don't much care what the math is. Those who might never live long enough to collect a dime of it or those who might get totally screwed if it runs out would have a real beech but for us who have paid and are now better off in our twilight years with it I say take every damn dime you can get, Live long and prosper!

Well, Mr. GaryL. I should begin by cautioning you and most of the posters here, Galt's Gulch is not some super, flying, levitating, sunbathing spa community. Productivity is a principle value and virtue.
What would you like to do?
Tell you what, take a look at this factory remnant now available as your starting point:

www.GaltsGulchPortal.blogspot.ca

If you understand that Ayn Rand knew that man has never, in his 790,000 year history, been at peace with himself or his world around him what is being built is all brand new thinking from concepts with man and a rational core moving forward and upward to a real & well-defined benevolent universe. I can assure you that everyone that makes it to Mulligan's Valley in June has the whole month to decide whether they can integrate(Quentin Daniels) or return (Dagny Taggart)
The key to your certainty is this;
The predominant culture is Mystic/Altruist/Collectivist.

Atlantis is Reason/Egoist/Capitalist

Your decision hinges on whether you can see the world transitioning or collapsing first.

Ayn Rand knew the answer but no motor-man presented himself to her during her lifetime and so she was obliged by reality to take the Dagny(rational advocate-speaking-out) approach until her death.

If you understand that any attempt to socialize individuals around anything but a 100% complete system is doomed to fail(Chile!?).

Ayn Rand's moral code is 100% complete any attempt to consolidate theory into practice... well...the turmoil during and implosion after her passing tells you that there's an essential missing element.
For you Mr.GaryL. its motivation - understandable - you have no desire to contribute one ounce of you valuable knowledge and energy to help the looter/moocher code through another cycle.

Moral Code:Motive Power:Motor Unit
All done and well done - start with that factory remnant and see what you come up with - bring it with you in June.

One man and his motor: It all begins with that. Come to Mulligan's Valley next June and see it for yourself.

And I mean it.
A $ A

Actually, if you read it fully they always write it as You 'SHOULD' receive this much per month 'BASED' on current information or something to that affect...Social Security is not a guaranteed amount nor is it any type of savings account.

I am not the one who played tricks on the American citizenry, I am but one of the citizen's that saw what the game is.

I wish you the best

That the SS would pay me X amount of money monthly. What else could that be?

Tell us; what was the promise?

W4 paperwork and Social Security Paperwork...not All of us there are close to 30 million that have done it the correct way and there are others that know and only pay income tax on our 'EARNED INCOME' by actual choice

If the Gulch became reality tomorrow I would jump at the chance even though I'm 65yo I have the enthusiasm of a younger person for this project. So, yes you would be welcome in the Gulch.

GaryL, for sure it is not about being a part of the tribe inasmuch as being part of the tribe entitles one to its benefits. In Galts Gulch, the transfer of goods and services was bought with gold, a distinct challenge to entitlement that could be a feature of tribal life. It's about trade, and the trader principle derives directly from the oath. The oath is what qualifies you to belong to the Gulch, not some social status inherent in tribalism. There are no chiefs, only individuals. "He who does not work shall not eat" or "pulling your own weight" refer to a collectivist ethics.

Well, I wouldn't go too far with it all going south soon. The ones who think they are in control have every incentive to keep this mass of paper ridden financial junk going as long as they can. I think the bank failures in 2007 showed that. It is just they keep doing more and more to try to get the system to implode, such as the current round of "free college" crap and other looter boondoggles. Eventually you burden the system with so much entitlements (which are already unaffordable), that it can't go anymore. I just keep trying to grab silver and gold in small amounts whenever I can, it will be worth a lot more in the post era.

Chesty, While I agree that your logic looks sound, I guess the real issue is that our govt is no longer representative of either the people or the foundations it was built on. Hence the great number of "secret gov't" conspiracy theories. I think all they refer to is the current, uncontrolled "State" that thinks we serve it, not the other way around. Thanks for the details, very interesting.

Goodness me! I've never even taken a shot at anyone, whether he knew what he was talking about or merely bloviating to try to impress. Of course it is a ponzi scheme and people were lead to believe they had no choice but to pay into it

What paperwork did all of us sign at the time of our employment?

There isn't any residual SS money. The SS trust fund contains nothing but Treasury bonds, so as long as SS does continue to pay benefits, even the part that "comes from the trust fund" is still from current tax revenue (or newly "printed" money).

I am too entitled because I paid in on a promise.
Should some day liars refuse to pay me what I am due, I will get mad at them.
Getting mad at you for saying I am not entitled is a waste of my time.
Meanwhile, I am still collecting my payments.

Allo you are not entitled to Social Security...Being 68 you heard that it was a pay as you go plan from back in the 1950's, 60's, 70's & 80's so to claim YOU PAID IN means nothing you did not pay into a savings plan it was not an account with your name on it. So just like the Ponzi scheme's of old you were tricked. You can get mad at me or others for your mistake but it is not us that fell into it...it was you.

I am sorry, but the truth of the fed gov't plans must be known to all in order for us to know what to do.

Sorry, you are incorrect. You opted into a plan [you signed the paperwork], that was not a retirement plan but a pay those already retired plan.

How can I prove this to you, hmmm.

Easy, NO government of the United States including the Federal can save any of the Taxpayers money from year to year any surplus must be either returned equally or the taxes lowered the following year.

So Social Security ISN'T A SAVINGS PLAN and YOU OPTED INTO IT.

It is only a failed plan because people are living longer. In 1935 when it was devised they used the best Life Insurance companies and life expectancy charts to make it that only 1 out of approximately 8 people paying in will survive to get anything substantial back.

So yes from the beginning it was a scam, still is today.

Please don't shoot the messenger for giving you the facts of this matter