Would I be welcome in the Gulch?
Posted by GaryL 8 years, 5 months ago to Ask the Gulch
There is no question my heart is in the Gulch but I have always wondered at this stage in my life would I be welcome.
The basics being I am age 64, retired with a state pension and collecting SS. Wife still works but I stay home keeping up the home and property and care taking for my neighbors property while they winter in Florida and California. I have many skills yet I chose to keep mostly to my self with them and have done all the outside mechanic, woodworking, cabinet making and handy man fix ups that I care to do any more. I am certainly not lazy but will admit I have had just about enough of being used and abused where outside work is concerned. Friends and family on a reciprocal basis get my attention these days and I no longer hire myself out as I did in the past. These days I am in cruise control and just enjoy fishing, light hunting, hiking and relaxing. Would I be welcome in the Gulch?
The basics being I am age 64, retired with a state pension and collecting SS. Wife still works but I stay home keeping up the home and property and care taking for my neighbors property while they winter in Florida and California. I have many skills yet I chose to keep mostly to my self with them and have done all the outside mechanic, woodworking, cabinet making and handy man fix ups that I care to do any more. I am certainly not lazy but will admit I have had just about enough of being used and abused where outside work is concerned. Friends and family on a reciprocal basis get my attention these days and I no longer hire myself out as I did in the past. These days I am in cruise control and just enjoy fishing, light hunting, hiking and relaxing. Would I be welcome in the Gulch?
Rand also accepted SS. She did not object to people receiving social security... only the forceful taking of it in the first place. Why would she object to getting back your own money? Imagine the profit one could make with the money properly invested as opposed to sending it to Washington where the piggy bank is constantly robbed.
The Myth - Ayn Rand violated her own philosophy by collecting social security.
The Truth:
This is the same as claiming that if you are against robbery, and you were one of Bernie Madoff's victims, you violate your principles by putting in a claim for partial restitution.
She addressed a similar issue in her article "The Question of Scholarships,” The Objectivist, June, 1966. From that article:
"Many students of Objectivism are troubled by a certain kind of moral dilemma confronting them in today’s society. We are frequently asked the questions: “Is it morally proper to accept scholarships, private or public?” and: “Is it morally proper for an advocate of capitalism to accept a government research grant or a government job?
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/gov...
Respectfully,
O.A.
The Gulch is not far removed from the Tribal life we came from. Every member of a tribe had a value either self proclaimed or assigned. If one could not hunt then they fished for food, scraped hides, carried water or did some necessary task. The one thing that was never allowed was sitting around smoking the peace pipe and showing up for dinner. They did care for the old, young and sick but those who made a habit of loafing got banished. Seems as though we have come a long way from Tribal times and not gone all that far.
How then do we deal with those who want to live in the Gulch but never lifted a finger to build it?
You attract the type of people you have programs for. If your programs are, come work hard, keep what you earn and we stay out of your way, only those who want that would come.
There are some very hard working people that believe socialism is the right way. They are willing to give half of what they earn to the government, both the loafers and those types would not come to a gulch.
I wonder if for a Gulch-like society to work it would require someone who acts as a benevolent dictator at measuring whether people mean the oath.
Better to create a virtual gulch where like minded people lived close to each other and traded as much as possible within the bounds of the group. Something like the book and movie ALONGSIDE NIGHT.
The idea would be to insulate ourselves as much as possible from the devastation of the statists, while hiding in plain sight to avoid being attacked by the statists. An idea to think about.
The gov't knowing by Constutitonal law it could not save money it spends every penny [and more now since the deal with the Federal Reserve in 1913] it takes in; so social security is not a savings plan it is pay as you go.
Also it is a voluntary plan, even if you think it mandatory...it is not, MOST public workers, teachers, fire and Police officers know this and do not participate in such a con as S.S.
It is important to know what is and isn't yours in order to make your decision on the Gulch
It has been that way since 1792 w/ a brief unconstitiutional time from 1861 to 1865. The Federal knows this...I thing that is why they all want to pass a flat tax; IT IS THE WAY TO GET AMERICANS TO REPEAL THE APPORTIONMENT PORTION of the US Constitution which they have NEVER been able to do before. You see Nick et al. we have been tricked since 1939 to voluntarilly put our 'earned' into the category of 'unearned' by way of filling out the W4 [in 1935 they started with the Social Security tax paperwork]. You may think it mandatory & you do from your post. BUT IT IS NOT!
Now I know you will raise the false flag of:
"the 16th Amendment"
but as all good Con's go you have been duped.
You see SCOTUS as answered that false statement over 28 times the last in I believe 2008, most beginning in 1913; from the Brushaber v Union Pacific Railroad Case of 1916 [when SCOTUS tried of having to repeat themselves over and over again]:
“…the CONFUSION is not inherent, but rather ARISES FROM THE CONCLUSION THAT THE 16th AMENDMENT PROVIDES for a hitherto UNKNOWN POWER OF TAXATION -- that is, A POWER TO LEVY AN INCOME TAX which, ALTHOUGH DIRECT, should NOT SUBJECT TO THE REGULATION OF APPORTIONMENT applicable to all other direct taxes. And the far-reaching effect of THIS ERRONEOUS ASSUMPTION WILL BE MADE CLEAR by generalizing the many contentions advanced in argument to support it, as follows: (a) The Amendment authorizes only a particular character of direct tax without apportionment, and therefore if a tax is levied under its assumed authority which does not partake of the characteristics exacted by the Amendment, it is outside of the Amendment, and is void as a direct tax in the general constitutional sense because not apportioned. (b) As the Amendment authorizes a tax only upon incomes "from whatever source derived," the exclusion from taxation of some income of designated persons and classes is not authorized, and hence the constitutionality of the law must be tested by the general provisions of the Constitution as to taxation, and thus again the tax is void for want of apportionment. (c) As the right to tax "incomes from whatever source derived" for which the Amendment provides must be considered as exacting intrinsic uniformity, therefore no tax comes under the authority of the Amendment not conforming to such standard,"
It is long winded but percise...
Yes Nick et al. it is shocking but true!
How it's perpetrated is by fear. The 'IRS' a gov't agency much like the Fed Res, Dept of Edu, Osha, the EPA get's to omit things in verbal communication, they assign a 'withholding agent' in non public businesses [non gov't] and they tell this person that everyone MUST GET W4 & Social Security [FICA] paperwork, if they do not the agent can be jailed and or fined! This person believes that you must fill them out, [doesn't say that anywhere], also the documents only pertain to taxpayers not non-taxpayers so they do not have to spell non-taxpayer information out.
Once you fill it out you are locked in [post 2007] because in 1939 there was created a regulation to opt out after the 'war' if you wanted too. They never printed this as an offical document and until 2007 you could just write it out and submit it, but alas in 2007 the IRS decided it would NO LONGER EXCEPT ANY DOCUMENTS OTHER THEN OFFICAL DOCUMENTS PRINTED BY THE IRS. No document no opt out after signing!
Now Companies have been threatened with 'possible' auditing if they push the issue...so you as an American Citizen are all alone against the Fed Gov't on your taxes being illegally or falsely taken.
But at least now you know the truth!
You did earn it. It is your own money with most of it stolen for other purposes.
How can I prove this to you, hmmm.
Easy, NO government of the United States including the Federal can save any of the Taxpayers money from year to year any surplus must be either returned equally or the taxes lowered the following year.
So Social Security ISN'T A SAVINGS PLAN and YOU OPTED INTO IT.
It is only a failed plan because people are living longer. In 1935 when it was devised they used the best Life Insurance companies and life expectancy charts to make it that only 1 out of approximately 8 people paying in will survive to get anything substantial back.
So yes from the beginning it was a scam, still is today.
Please don't shoot the messenger for giving you the facts of this matter
What paperwork did all of us sign at the time of our employment?
https://mises.org/library/social-secu...
SS is little but another Ponzi scam, manipulated at will by the proponents of Force. They, as usual, steal the fruits of our labor, take their cut off the top, and redistribute a variable portion based the their concept of "need".
That's not only SS, but everything. E.G my lady-partner gets a smaller SS plus a larger draw from from her deceased hubby's Federal Retirement. That will also be unpaid, leaving us with no income whatsoever.
I suppose it will matter less as hyperinflation will quickly wipe out the dollar anyway. We don't hold much in dollars, but have some meager junk silver on hand. It will be that and hopefully we can manage to barter while a better and voluntary system evolves. Now our age 77, it won't be easy, but our end is nearing anyway, but starvation is not a nice way to go!
And of course the federal government has no power to be distributing welfare at all outside of DC.
I was once criticized by someone here for my stating that I am entitled to my SS for paying into it since age 14 with a summer job.
I. Don't. Care.
Someone else once called me arrogant because I'm not an atheist, who thinks Christians, whether they work for the government or a bakery, should not be bullied or have their lives ruined by radical gays
I. Still. Don't. Care.
How is someone who calls hims allosaur supposed to act? Humble?
I. Don't. Think. So.
By the way, I think Ayn Rand is the berries!
"The berries" is what Al Capone once called something he liked.
I am dino--
Hear me roar!
Still, I'm not defending SS for taking money out of anyone's paycheck.
SS took $ out of each and every one of mine and I want my freaking payback.
I'm due my freaking payback until the day I die.
There is a big difference between my paid all my working life entitled and the "entitled" gimmes gimmes imagined by some wetback Senor El Moochardo.
But you know that.
(That's for other readers who may come along).
Jan
But. I. Like. You. Back.
Always. Have.
ROAR!
I am sorry, but the truth of the fed gov't plans must be known to all in order for us to know what to do.
Should some day liars refuse to pay me what I am due, I will get mad at them.
Getting mad at you for saying I am not entitled is a waste of my time.
Meanwhile, I am still collecting my payments.
I am not the one who played tricks on the American citizenry, I am but one of the citizen's that saw what the game is.
I wish you the best
Go and do the research since you are the expert here on SS and prove to us all that I had the option of opting out.
Even my savings may go bye-bye should there be a huge economic collapse, rendering even cash useless..
Eat, drink and be merry!
For tomorrow we may all starve!
That the government mismanaged the money and tries to renege doesn't change that. It is not "my mistake" as I was forced at gunpoint. It was not "me".
Gotcha beat in age by 17 years.
I collect Socialist Security because it was taken from me by coercion and I'm merely getting a portion of it back. I've been fairly monetarily successful, so I have some money stashed away, and hopefully the $$ won't collapse while I'm alive. I'm also not lazy, but I am a disabled physical wreck whose body is falling apart incrementally. (Which I resent because I've done nothing to deserve it). However, the brain is working pretty good. The memory needs to be kick started now and then, but otherwise it gets me into trouble pretty much all over the world via the internet. Frankly, I love the Gulch. I get to give the newbies the benefit of my vast experience and knowledge, but even better, I get to learn from all the others posting on this fine instrument. Based on your description of yourself, I think you'll fit in here just fine, and besides, if you don't, I sure as hell don't either.
If you are asking if you would be welcome then the question is more difficult: We have some agreement on exclusionary criteria (ie Moochers) but little agreement on inclusionary criteria (including Objectivism, a-religious philosophy, copyright, boundary control, 'harm', secondary effects, etc). If we go with just the not-a-Moocher criterion, then you are welcome indeed; anything more...and I would just be speaking for myself.
Jan
and couldn't do anything else!!! -- j
.
Are there some in the Gulch who won't welcome you, see you as a moocher? Possibly.
It doesn't really matter, does it? Wherever there is more than one person, there is a difference of opinion.
I believe there are many ways to be a producer. I'm not crazy about Social Security but I do believe that after years of paying into it, one truly is "entitled" to take from it.
But what does what I think matter?
You know what you have done in your life. You know what you are doing now. If someone doesn't welcome you because they believe accepting SS makes you a moocher, they'll have to reconcile that with what they believe Rand was when she accepted the same.
Maybe one could be considered a producer based on previous production. An author doesn't necessarily stop producing once he is no longer able to write. Rand still produces as does Dickens.
I welcome you...but expect an argument if we are ever on different sides of the philosophical coin! :)
I think we spend to much energy "hiring ourselves out" rather than finding and doing that which is of high value to ourselves.
What would you like to do?
Tell you what, take a look at this factory remnant now available as your starting point:
www.GaltsGulchPortal.blogspot.ca
If you understand that Ayn Rand knew that man has never, in his 790,000 year history, been at peace with himself or his world around him what is being built is all brand new thinking from concepts with man and a rational core moving forward and upward to a real & well-defined benevolent universe. I can assure you that everyone that makes it to Mulligan's Valley in June has the whole month to decide whether they can integrate(Quentin Daniels) or return (Dagny Taggart)
The key to your certainty is this;
The predominant culture is Mystic/Altruist/Collectivist.
Atlantis is Reason/Egoist/Capitalist
Your decision hinges on whether you can see the world transitioning or collapsing first.
Ayn Rand knew the answer but no motor-man presented himself to her during her lifetime and so she was obliged by reality to take the Dagny(rational advocate-speaking-out) approach until her death.
If you understand that any attempt to socialize individuals around anything but a 100% complete system is doomed to fail(Chile!?).
Ayn Rand's moral code is 100% complete any attempt to consolidate theory into practice... well...the turmoil during and implosion after her passing tells you that there's an essential missing element.
For you Mr.GaryL. its motivation - understandable - you have no desire to contribute one ounce of you valuable knowledge and energy to help the looter/moocher code through another cycle.
Moral Code:Motive Power:Motor Unit
All done and well done - start with that factory remnant and see what you come up with - bring it with you in June.
One man and his motor: It all begins with that. Come to Mulligan's Valley next June and see it for yourself.
And I mean it.
A $ A
I was a blatant communistic socialist - none more red than I - AND my lifelong career was that of a civil servant, some benign, some... not... yet somehow something directed me to read AS and from there I realized my life - my beliefs, my hatred for freedom, for theism, for liberty - was but a sham. Did I give up my civil service career, or disavow the ones before? Absolutely not. But I did subsequently approach it not from a civil servant moocher and looter perspective but a producer's perspective, and it changed my life. I expect to retire (finally!) and retrieve my investment into the various companies I was part and parcel thereof, but having been reborn, I realize that only by producing, by contributing my value for equal value, do I feel, indeed, complete. Beause I am seriously and severely addicted to being a producer.
The hardest part is some of my former "dotgov" skills don't mesh seamlessly with the "civillian"world, but I still have the credo "no job too small or insignificant, and no work to meaningless to not call worthwile Work". But yet... here I am, and as a producer, here I remain.
If you fit here... then welcome!!
I read your commentary and thought...what is that you do, which might take a team of horses to drag you from...to do something you regularly and usually enjoy doing. Note:...that just might be what Neothink calls: one's Friday night essence.
Here's where the left has broadened their tent by trying to include hard working, tax paying workers into the same class as welfare cheats, looters and moochers. Maybe I'm wrong here but I see AARP as very left leaning. Now literally how can an association of "retired persons" self identify with the moochers.
The problem is SS by it's very definition needs overhauled beyond recognition. I don't like it-but I've been forced into it with my previous 1,144 paychecks. Value for value? Ragnar did not take anything from the RIGHTFUL OWNERS. I say emulate Ragnar and take your stuff back......
If I pay my car insurance faithfully then get t-boned, should I feel bad when the insurance check takes care of the repair. No. And BTW- the looters in my state have made it mandatory to have car insurance. Big brother just keeps getting bigger-for now
Saying that, recall that only gold and silver were accepted (though platinum would work, I'm sure). "Government Money", such as cash from the Federal Reserve and government pensions were worthless as they had no base on which to form a value. If a true "Galt's Gulch" were to follow the idea in the book, a prospective "citizen" would need to convert all of their assets into silver and gold or some other precious metal (I'm not sure about gems, artwork, etc.).
Since you are existing on a government pension, considering that the government could change or remove its value at any time, I wouldn't think that a Gulch citizenship would work out (again, if going solely by the book's scenario. A "real" Galt's Gulch might have different rules, though I don't see how they could make that work, as it would be facing the same problems as the fictional Gulch.
A while back I had to hire a lawyer who charged me $300/ hour on a real estate deal that went bad. He wanted me to do some cabinetry work in his new home because he saw my work and liked it a lot. I gave him my price, $300/hour. I did not get that job but he got the message. I even offered him the use of my tools, saws and shop to do it himself but he valued his fingers more than mine.
The existential worth of time may be the same, but if someone can create something that solves many problems or gets people things they want, they're obviously going to earn more money.
I did like your offer of $300/hour -- and you made a great point@
This question is easily answered, but possibly not easily thought; for insistence do you mind leaving your Social Security and State Pension behind, taking with you only the net worth you hold. You will/can barter, working to make up the difference to get what you need to survive for the rest of your life. Then the Gulch is for you.
If you do not and want to continue doing what you are doing then you have decided not to go on your own.
In the Gulch there is no taking from another for your needs, that is after all what a public worker does and that may be tough to leave.
I do have a question though, State workers have the knowledge that Social Security is not mandatory & that Social Security is removed when a public pension is involved yet you claim to get both, how? Was your wife the Public Servant, just asking for the sake of knowledge.
Let us know when you have answered your own question…
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/...
But Social Security is optional from its inception through today...they just don't make it public knowledge, which I think is lying...but, not legally.
Once government pivots away from you paying in for a lifetime...they will be fully able to decide what our "entitlement" will be.
relax, enjoy and vote for a better U.S., Gary -- that's
my advice, and Welcome To The Gulch, IMHO. -- john
.
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