Defending Ayn Rand and Objectivism
Posted by xthinker88 9 years, 8 months ago to Philosophy
I'm always interested in feedback on "debates" that I get into. I've posted the main post and thread and then there was another sub-thread that I'll post below in comments. Thoughts? Criticisms? Thanks.
Main Post R: Ayn Rand’s “philosophy” is nearly perfect in its immorality, which makes the size of her audience all the more ominous and symptomatic as we enter a curious new phase in our society….To justify and extol human greed and egotism is to my mind not only immoral, but evil.— Gore Vidal, 1961
My Response
Me: Well if Gore Vidal is that much against it that is high praise indeed.
R: Rand is EVIL.
Me: Lol. Yes. Because anyone who thinks it's wrong to own others is the very definition of evil to progressives who believe otherwise.
Me: “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." Yep. Hard to imagine a more evil concept. Except for any contrary concept that argues that your life is only valued as something you should sacrifice to others and that others should be forced to live for you.
R: She believes that helping others is a weakness. that being selfish is a strength. I completely disagree.
R: her philosophy of selfishness, vanity, and egotism is all that is wrong with humanity. it breeds hate.
R: If I prescribed to her philosophy... i wouldnt share my knowledge or my mead with you unless you paid dearly for it.
Me: Actually you don't really seem to understand her philosophy. Just the cliff notes version with the familiar leftist spin.
Me: So you get no enjoyment, pleasure or satisfaction from sharing your plant knowledge? If that is the case then as your friend I would truly advise you to stop.
R: I see too many that use the plant knowledge to make a buck or abuse it. Rand would be proud of them. I don't make a living from it. Just recoup expenses.
Me: So you're not answering my question. Instead, you once again show that you don't even understand the philosophy you're maligning.
R: Pleasure or satisfaction isn't a factor. I started teaching because others asked me to.
R: Rand philosophy is all that is wrong with this country.
Me: So you don't enjoy it or get any satisfaction out of it? Once again avoiding my question. If you are that miserable doing it you should stop.
Me: Rand philosophy? Really? Because I know very few people that actually follow Rand's philosophy
R: You can convince me Rand philosophy is good for mankind. Ever.
Main Post R: Ayn Rand’s “philosophy” is nearly perfect in its immorality, which makes the size of her audience all the more ominous and symptomatic as we enter a curious new phase in our society….To justify and extol human greed and egotism is to my mind not only immoral, but evil.— Gore Vidal, 1961
My Response
Me: Well if Gore Vidal is that much against it that is high praise indeed.
R: Rand is EVIL.
Me: Lol. Yes. Because anyone who thinks it's wrong to own others is the very definition of evil to progressives who believe otherwise.
Me: “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." Yep. Hard to imagine a more evil concept. Except for any contrary concept that argues that your life is only valued as something you should sacrifice to others and that others should be forced to live for you.
R: She believes that helping others is a weakness. that being selfish is a strength. I completely disagree.
R: her philosophy of selfishness, vanity, and egotism is all that is wrong with humanity. it breeds hate.
R: If I prescribed to her philosophy... i wouldnt share my knowledge or my mead with you unless you paid dearly for it.
Me: Actually you don't really seem to understand her philosophy. Just the cliff notes version with the familiar leftist spin.
Me: So you get no enjoyment, pleasure or satisfaction from sharing your plant knowledge? If that is the case then as your friend I would truly advise you to stop.
R: I see too many that use the plant knowledge to make a buck or abuse it. Rand would be proud of them. I don't make a living from it. Just recoup expenses.
Me: So you're not answering my question. Instead, you once again show that you don't even understand the philosophy you're maligning.
R: Pleasure or satisfaction isn't a factor. I started teaching because others asked me to.
R: Rand philosophy is all that is wrong with this country.
Me: So you don't enjoy it or get any satisfaction out of it? Once again avoiding my question. If you are that miserable doing it you should stop.
Me: Rand philosophy? Really? Because I know very few people that actually follow Rand's philosophy
R: You can convince me Rand philosophy is good for mankind. Ever.
to give a return WooHoo in response. . may the force
be with you!!! -- j
.
Jan
than the current Jan, and that Jan's successes in life have possibly
resulted from the -- shall we say -- "reinforcement" of the
natural Jan. . enabling a Marine-type YeeeeHaaaa to occur
in the form which we see here. . this is delightful,
if I am making any sense at all. -- j
.
When you look into the abyss, it looks back into you....
Jan
Good points. I think that as you can see, he was not really interested in listening. He could not even admit to enjoying teaching and sharing what I know to be a lifelong passion of his (wild edible plants and cooking using them). In hindsight, there cannot be a debate I think unless both people are open to honestly engaging and understanding the point of view of the other. In this case, he had no explanation for his points and was completely unwilling to listen to mine.
MWAHAHAHAhahaha!
well, whoever you are, we love you!!! -- j
.
Jan
the person whom her friends want to know, that she has
nearly become that person. . strange form of schizophrenia. -- j
.
Jan
Jan
Evil people subdue other people.
It is good to do more with what you have.
As a result your life should grow and not stagnate.
Your friend doesn't seem to grasp these concepts.
to see that capitalism yields more benefit to humankind
than fascism, socialism, communism or any other schism
ever will. . these people are myopic. -- j
.
done which others have asked you to do? . Do you depend on
others to guide you through your life?" -- j
.
It fell apart when he said Rand is about eating our neighbors and you rightly said that was a straw man. I think you could tell him Rand is actually against eating our neighbors. On that point he actually agrees with Rand.
Then I add, "Rand's philosophy abhors the idea that you must purchase your own sense of self-worth by performing deeds you despise to people you scorn. You are worth value in your own right; you do not need to buy it from anyone."
"So - what is wrong with these ideas? Tell me how self-esteem and friendship are Evil."
Jan
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