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    Posted by $ AJAshinoff 9 years, 1 month ago
    I doubt it can be stopped. The people are more interested in what they can be given or what they can take. The politicians, hungry for power and wealth, know this, feed the moochers and are rewards with a loyal voting base.

    “When the people find that they can vote themselves money,
    that will herald the end of the republic.”
    - Benjamin Franklin

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But,
    under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program,
    until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."
    - Norman Thomas (US Socialist Presidential Candidate)
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    • Posted by $ Suzanne43 9 years, 1 month ago
      Hey, good quotes! Margaret Thatcher had another good one..."the problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Governor Moonbeam is incapable of understanding that. So, therefore, he has a bankrupt state. I live in Indiana where Socialism is known for what it is. We have a surplus.
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      • Posted by $ Snezzy 9 years, 1 month ago
        Indiana immorally holds a surplus that must be distributed to the more needy states. Oh, and the state's name is immoral, too. In fact, ALL the state names are politically offensive and should be changed. They either refer to ethnic people or they don't, both of which are wrong.
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  • Posted by Ibecame 9 years, 1 month ago
    Check your Premise. As an Objectivist do you have any right to cause others to change (other than through education)?

    I do sympathize with you, but my feeling is you are caught up in a rush of Lemmings on their way toward "history in the making". They will stop running when everything crashes.
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    • Posted by XenokRoy 9 years, 1 month ago
      There is one right which can be used, but unless your willing to use it I see no other way to change it. The right to respond with force to the use of force against you.

      You can petition and lobby the state legislature to make changes which is the use verbal force to attempt to solve without physical force, but I think on most issues we are federally and in the state of California beyond the chance of that being successful.

      This leaves you and I with two options. Wait until natural consequences for actions lead to situations where people are forced by those consequences to listen and make changes, or increase the level of force you and others are willing to use to fix things.

      I do not think there is sufficient outrage exist to make the required force occur, not yet. It will likely come. I leave with you two quotes from two Frenchmen from closely linked time periods.

      "I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all."
      - Alexis de Tocqueville

      "When the government violates the people's rights, insurrection is, for the people and for each portion of the people, the most sacred of the rights and the most indispensable of duties."
      - Marquis De Lafayette

      If you do not know who these two men are, do some research on them and where these quotes come from. Perhaps the answers and the research itself will provide greater clarity to your own answer to the question you pose.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
      I believe you are correct. As far as education is concerned, our "common core" system in California is not working well. It has been forced on the children, by our State's government. Those who were previously in AP classes, couldn't pass their tests and were unable to get scholarships.
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      • Posted by BenFrank 9 years, 1 month ago
        I met a pretty smart kid who had been taking AP classes while residing in Missouri. His parents relocated to Arizona in his senior year. He was incensed at the AP classes here. He said the only difference between regular and AP classes was that AP classes assigned 2-3 times more homework. The subject matter itself was exactly like regular classes. He told the school he wanted out of AP and they refused. He told them if they didn't let him out he would go to the press and expose them for corruption because they weren't really interested in his needs but only in the fed money. They let him out of the AP classes.
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      • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 1 month ago
        The sad thing is... "AP Classes" in California are still some of the worst in the nation... if the baseline is like #47 out of 50, duking it out with Mississippi and Alabama, being in an AP class is really only approximating to the slow-learners in Massachusetts or Minnesota.

        Give the kids an SAT or ACT test and the truth comes out very quickly....
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 1 month ago
    California is swirling out of control. The state is steadfastly liberal and is just beginning to reap what they have sowed. I loved San Diego, but I'm glad I moved out of there 20 years ago. The most beautiful and arguably the place with the greatest potential to be the most productive in the country is turning into the east side of Detroit. The only thing you can do is either get out of watch it crumble around your ears.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 9 years, 1 month ago
    Why not vote with your feet and leave?
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    • Posted by term2 9 years, 1 month ago
      I used to live in california and DID vote with my feet. Now I am thinking about leaving Nevada. The number of decent places to go now has shrunk where you can make a living AND be free. Not to mention a good place to be as the socialism in this country takes it down into chaos. Las Vegas is way too dependent on the economy booming and government giving goodies to the entitled people who live here.
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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 1 month ago
    We left California and took our money, children and grandchildren with us. Both my wife and I are well educated with advanced degrees. My children either have degrees, or are working on them. The majority of my kids wll have advanced degrees. So we have taken millions of dollars of earning potential and a lot of intelectual capitol out of the state. Now, just my family will not make a huge difference, but if all like minded families did the same the motor would stop.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 1 month ago
    There is a high threshold cost to moving out of California for me - both personal and professional. In addition to the personal consequences, moving means selling the office and moving at least some of the people in the company to another state. (There are several, including some key people, who are willing to move...but not all of them, and not all of the key people.)

    What do I get out of this? Is there a state that is That Much Better than California that it is worth my while to move? Is there any state that can protect me and my employees from the ACA? Is there any state that can keep CPS from grabbing the children of my employees?

    I keep looking at Texas, which is large, has a lot of physical resources, is not cold, and has a seacoast (all required criteria to me). West Texas (just W of Austin) is the best place I have found so far...but there are still not Enough advantages for me to go over the threshold and actually move.

    Instead, what I am seeing is the "Californiazation" of the rest of the US. Increasingly, the other states are following the path that California has taken. So why move?

    Jan
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    • Posted by bsmith51 9 years, 1 month ago
      Go visit Texas's "sea coast." You'll find even the best parts of it are unlike anything California has to offer. And not in a good way.
      Trivia: the windiest city in the nation is Corpus Christi (Chicago earned the title from long-winded political speeches, not from the weather).
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      • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 1 month ago
        I was raised in a military family - spent a lot of time in Texas. We used to own a lot in Corpus Christi, and we went there a couple of times a year for vacations. I have fond memories of swimming and fishing there. (Of course, hurricane Carla pushed our boat through 3' of concrete where it was berthed there...)

        'Seacoast' is a requirement because it connects the region to the rest of the world.

        Jan
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    • Posted by khalling 9 years, 1 month ago
      yes. The state of Baja Sur :)
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      • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 1 month ago
        Tempting. I have thought of that...

        So far, it is the only thing that would protect me from the ACA. But there is a snowball's chance in hell that I would get the rest of the company to move there. Texas is possible, CA Sur is not.

        Jan
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        • Posted by khalling 9 years, 1 month ago
          well, I do not know the infrastructure needs of your company. ie lab requirements. maybe just you and take trips. I know many people down here who work 4 days in the US whereever and fly "home" for 3. For you, that is a 2.5 hour plane trip at reasonable cost (think rush hour traffic). but bliss for three days. empty beaches-well here-most of these scenes are mostly from my deserted beach (some at the end are San Jose del Cabo)- https://video-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvi...
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          • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 1 month ago
            Right now, I live in a big red Barn on an acre of land (with sheep, goat, chickens...) with 'badlands' on two sides of me for miles. I am <15 min from work, on surface streets. So, my life in SoCal is not typical. And I would not think it were better to feed the Mexican Bull my money than the American Ass, insofar as governments are concerned.

            I have looked into the idea of commuting from BajaCal to CA and if I am in the US >30 days per year I come under the ACA again. What is more, my management style is 'management by wandering around'...which I would find difficult to do from a few hundred miles away. (I will say that your proponency of Baja has made me think of this again, though.)

            It is beautiful there; thank you for the video. I remember taking trips to Baja with my parents when I was younger.

            So, I am still trying to get the pieces in place for what to do next...but there is no other country or state that is pulling me towards it (CA is pushing, yes...).

            Jan
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 9 years, 1 month ago
    Here are my thoughts on California.

    IS ATLAS SHRUGGING IN CALIFORNIA?

    In Ayn Rand’s allegorical novel “Atlas Shrugged” the most productive members of society are vanishing. Their disappearance leaves a vacuum that is rapidly filled by people that have never operated a successful business, met a payroll, or even had a genuinely original idea. The result is the collapse of the economy and the beginnings of a depression that makes the 1930’s look like a tea party.

    And now fiction is becoming reality. While there is no clearly identifiable “John Galt” and many of the people that are leaving the state are simply moving to more business friendly locations the impact on California is much the same as that described in Rand’s novel. Businesses are failing at an alarming rate, tax revenues are plummeting, and the burden placed on the state coffers by exploding welfare rolls is crippling. And California is not alone; this same scenario is being repeated all over the country.

    In Atlas Shrugged, John Galt said he would “Stop the motor of the world.” Well, in the real world everywhere you look the motor is stopping.
    California once led the nation in population growth at one point going over 6 percent per year. Now it has dropped to slightly over one percent. And what is worse is the drop in per capita income. Once a leader in the nation now the state is in the second to the lowest quintile in terms of income growth. This means that most of the growth is in lower income groups which mean little or no new business. This pattern is being repeated up and down the east coast. Not surprisingly the most rapid growth is in states with low or nonexistent tax structures, with Nevada being a prominent example.

    For the most part the country is self destructing because of an orgy of self indulgence brought about by colossally incompetent social policies. The current administration is a classic example of machine politics Chicago style. The recent attempt at extortion or blackmail of Senator Kyle from Nevada is a classic example of this practice. Administration officials including four cabinet officers, almost certainly with the knowledge of President Obama, threatened the governor of Arizona with a cut off of stimulus funds if Kyle didn’t stop his criticism of the stimulus process.

    The United States in now a debtor nation and is at the financial mercy of countries like China and other Asian nations as well as some very unfriendly folks in the Middle East. And now, even Communist China is viewing the leftward lunge of the United States with considerable alarm. They have a very large investment in American companies and American dollars and they are worried that this investment is in jeopardy. Considering the profligacy of the current and previous administrations this concern is clearly justified.



    So, was Ayn Rand a prophet or just an annoying radical right wing kook. Watch the news or read it in those few papers that still exist and decide for your self.
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  • Posted by PURA 9 years, 1 month ago
    We currently live in California --- We are moving as the state is completely out of control. What people can and will do is vote with their feet.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 1 month ago
    California started passing laws to have government-applied medical treatment to children a couple years ago. Only the latest one had some opposition, and will probably go to referendum. Of course, I expect the voters to approve it. My point, though, is that California isn't that unique. The $15 wage took in Seattle . Maine courts just ruled that a child can be removed from parents for forced medical treatment.

    I'm surprised how the media ignores this stuff.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
      The California media is tightly controlled. We only hear positive comments about anything government-related. They hide the truth and those who don't care to wade through the bureaucracy sit in their own dream worlds, thinking everything is just great.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years, 1 month ago
    It looks like you won't have to; that they'll stop
    it themselves.--And then it'll be their own fault.--
    But maybe then they'll realize the error of their
    ways. Unless they try to blame the people in other
    states and try to sponge off the rest of us.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 1 month ago
    I'm convinced the lefties are doing it to themselves. Between the higher minimum wage (both statewide and higher yet in some cities) causing a lot of small businesses to close, and overregulation of other kinds, jobs here are in decline, and it's still getting worse because the state won't stop spending. Some of us can work around it by becoming independent contractors, but I'm sure looking for the job that will move me to a better state.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago
    What happened ninety days previously. Pump prices generally reflect an occurrence three months in advance as it takes that long to extract, refine, and deliver to the automobile. As for California specific? What happened in May? I see nothing unusual.Did I miss some tax and fee increases? Arizona right next door is $2.23.

    Of course they are closer to the new mega oil fields in Texas.

    The only thing worthy of note is Fifteen Dollars an hour minimum wage and that started in Washington State.

    Same Government Party with no recalls.

    I've got it! Obama announced he has not decided to abdicate and is still thinking about it.

    Maybe California deserves higher taxes at the pump? Could it be? May was the start of the political season for the next President....The corporations are gathering campaign donation funds cause it costs big bucks to buy your votes.

    California got what it asked for....
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  • Posted by UncommonSense 9 years, 1 month ago
    Another problem is the bought-and-paid for politicians know that people will "vote" with their feet by moving to other states. Thus, the reason for turning other supposedly "red" states into socialist states is so that no matter where one wants to escape to, it's a socialist hellhole no matter what state you choose.

    There have been numerous posts in the past with discussions on where else to move ~ the Globalists have also planned on this too: socialist hellholes no matter what country you move too. It is very depressing. Sorry to hear about your situation in Kali.
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  • Posted by broskjold22 9 years, 1 month ago
    Let's see. Most refining networks are levied or regulated out of commission though plentiful oil and gas is available offshore, the water is being rationed while an ocean of potential desalinated water remains untapped, electrical shortages are reassigned with rude telemarketers selling high priced solar cells, and racial movements are as consistent as they ever were. The motor has stopped in California. The two miniature republics within it called Silicon Valley and Orange County survive on folksy wisdom and the Attila businessman ethic. So what I mean to say is, come to California if you want to party like its 1984.
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  • Posted by dansail 9 years, 1 month ago
    I would have to say the only recourse is to Move Out. John Galt did and he survived just fine. Yes, it is a fiction, but the idea is there and many have survived such moves before.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 1 month ago
    I'd like to say...then move, stop doing business with california...BUT...I know how difficult that is, especially if your invested; ex have a home, have a mortgage and your house is worth less than you owe or at best, you'd have nothing to show for it after selling...I feel your pain cause I am in the same boat here in Connecticut.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 1 month ago
    CALIFORNIA IS DONE FOR. I still hve some real estate there, but I am going to get rid of it and be done with california forever.
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