What is Trump's strategy to keep manufacturing in our country?

Posted by ycandrea 5 years, 2 months ago to Politics
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I like Trump, but something bothers me big time.


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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
    Side Comment on another sources headliner stating Trump Is not Conservative. Of course not. He's a corporatist socialist member in good standing of the left wing and a RINO through and through.
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  • Posted by 5 years, 2 months ago
    I am sitting here listening to Trump ramble on about helping us compete in the trade and manufacturing with other countries. I have not heard any solutions. The main reason companies trade with and manufacture in other countries is labor costs, ie unions. He never addresses this issue. He keeps talking about fees to bring these products into our country to keep our high cost products competitive! I think that is not the best plan because who really eats it? The consumer of course. Instead of punishing companies who find cheaper labor, how about enforcing our right to work without joining a union? Then companies can pay less for labor because they won't be paying for the huge salaries of the thug union leaders. And consumers will keep competitive prices for the goods we buy. That seems a much better strategy to me. Until and unless Trump addresses the real problem, I don't trust him. Just my opinion.
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    • Posted by blackswan 5 years, 2 months ago
      It has nothing to do with unions. Unless you were asleep, the Japanese and Germans came here and used the same workers that the American companies said were hopeless, and produced world class vehicles. It's TOTAL COST, not unions, that's the driver. When you have the highest taxes in the world, compounded by onerous regulations, your total cost structure becomes uncompetitive, and you move elsewhere. The only thing the politicians can do is get the hell out of the way, and the private sector will take it from there.
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      • Posted by wiggys 5 years, 2 months ago
        wishful thinking. politicians will NEVER get out of the way. failure is their credo. if it fails then they can look for a new solution and all the time the solution is the same "leave us alone" which they never will agree too. so again I say wishful thinking.
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    • Posted by broskjold22 5 years, 2 months ago
      Well, my sense is that your distrust of Trump has to do with his demeanor and attitude. I would describe his attitude as somewhat careless. Careless in the sense that his concept of individual rights (i.e. not to work for a union) seem to come second to results (i.e. the dollar). No doubt, money is NOT the root of all evil. We all know d'Anconia's speech about this. It is that individual rights make the value of the dollar possible, and not the other way around. It is not clear to me that Trump knows this explicitly.
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      • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
        All I would want from Trump is his willingness to just say it the way he sees it. We never get that with politicians now, and we need it. He needs to tell us all when the emperor has no clothes, so that people can make intelligent decisions. If he did one thing only- that would be IT.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 2 months ago
          Good and he can do that without holding the nuclear button, without being King Donald the First. Let him run his mouth and make all the ignorant mistakes he can.
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          • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
            I really doubt Trump would want to use the nuclear button. War is very expensive and debilitating and he is more into doing business and making money all his life. Its the bushes and clintons who want to make war to pay off all their crony supporters. So many mistakes are made by our politicians and then hidden. Trump at least, if he did nothing else, would expose them.
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            • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 2 months ago
              I have no doubt that Trump can't be trusted with the nuclear button, nor with the executive order. He is a monarch not a 'public servant.' His priority is always Donald, and that is a recipe for disaster in a POTUS as we have already seen repeatedly. POTUS is not a job for someone who obviously enjoys wielding great power for personal benefit. It's a job for someone who can accomplish things with very limited power, and is driven to reduce the power of central government and the looters that corrupt it. That does not describe Trump or any of the candidates for POTUS with the possible exception of Ben Carson (who unfortunately believes in gun control.)
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              • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
                We can't do worse than Obama or Hillary. Maybe Ben Carson would be ok. The rest of them are all political manipulator s that can't be trusted. I would be ok at this point to have no president, but at least trump is going to tell it like it is. He isn't stupid and wouldn't start a nuclear war
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    • Posted by roneida 5 years, 2 months ago
      I am in tune with your opinions on today's corrupt and abusive unions but, their power is derived from the corrupt and abusive federal and state governments which rewards their greedy demands in return for vote loyalty. The idea of admonishing or encouraging unions to up production, lower benefits etc. is laughable when the government has no interest in production or cost...just votes. Look at the techers. 7-8 months of 30 hour weeks per year with guaranteed pensions and life time health care which pales in comparison to the Congress. When the government can order fast food chains to pay the food servers $15,00 per hour with no reason, economic, scientific or managerial. just "because they want it"" rational discussion is gone. There is no more reason for 15 than there is 50 or 7...just politics and bottom feeding. The unions will eventually come to a point of level negotiaions with business if the government can stop bribing them with protection but probably not in the lifetimes of anyone on earth today...
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      • Posted by 5 years, 2 months ago
        roneida, my point is that a company should be able to hire employees and employees should be able to accept a job without any regard for the union. Unions should have no say in the negotiations between employee and employer.
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        • Posted by roneida 5 years, 2 months ago
          ycandrea You've been reading my mail. As a 46 year veteran of the construction "wars" in America, Icouldn't agree more. All I am saying is that all levels of government rewards the unions with nearly any demand they make because the unions can guarantee voter loyalty. Some of these mononpolies have been weakened or broken by strong people like Scott Walker, but there is a long distance to get "right to work laws universal in America. The larger cities are total in union hands...graft coupled with government bribe takers is profitable. We no longer can afford to pay manufacturing jobs the same as lobbyists, Congressmen or bankers and the problem is exacberated by the high level of technology required for most tech jobs...the teachers are all secure because they are keeping the educations to themselves while many H S "Grads" are not totally ready to flip burgers...even for $15 per Obama mandates.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 5 years, 2 months ago
    The only real way to make America more competitive, would be to weaken the dollar, making our goods seem better-priced to other countries. But that has its problems here at home - anything that is a commodity on the world market gets more expensive for us (gasoline, metals, ores, etc.)

    We need to face facts, that the US is a high-cost place to live, and either let our masses be educated that if you want to have a low-wage job in manufacturing, you might be better off moving to Africa or something...

    And realize that we'll never be cost-competitive making simple junk for Walmart here. Where we are competitive is in making creative products that solve real problems - software, cyber security, shipbuilding, defense technologies, satellite systems, aircraft, advanced batteries, electric vehicles, and of course - the world loves Ford & Chevy trucks...

    Focus on what we're good at, and build the best the world has ever seen. Is a BMW or Lexus inherently better than a Buick? probably not, but there is perceived value that drives a higher price tag. We need to do the same thing - Germany has similar wage & cost issues, they succeed, but they succeed by building products they can be proud of and not worrying about the rest.

    It's an easy problem to solve, but it doesn't mean that someone can graduate from high school and suddenly buy a home and raise a family... it doesn't work like that, but that is what the left seems to dream about all the time.

    I get a lot of comments from friends of my son on how much stuff / house / etc., we have... well... I graduated early from one of the best high schools in the country (Minnesota school system), spent 6 years in the military, then I got a bachelor's degree, then I got another one in another technical area, and then I got my masters degree, and I founded a couple of companies - closed one, sold the other with over 170 people in it, and now I make a decent living writing technical solutions for defense contractors.

    And the focus of their question is "how do I get a job like that?"... Umm... with a high school diploma from a failed California high school? You don't.... you need to be willing to check off the technical education marks, the military never hurts - especially combat deployments in the Middle East or Africa to get 'perspective'... and never thinking you are 'done' with school - that's the kiss of death for a career that you want to always advance.

    The 'school of hard knocks' BS always irritates me too when I see that on someone's resume... I trash it before I bother. It says "I knew everything coming out of the womb - I was ready to succeed!".. Bullshit. That's like saying I didn't learn anything in my 350'ish credit hours, 2 years in the bush, and the United Arab Emirates & Congo. It's extremely disrespectful to the ones that decided not to settle with the oil change / jiffy lube job after high school.


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    • Posted by roneida 5 years, 2 months ago
      scojohnson Yes but it's not fair. You were determined and motivated and chose to take control of your life for you and your family. What about the people who want others to carry their load? If you were helpful and concerned about all the incompetents you would have majored in "Minority Studies", More Fairness in America, and social improvements for the deserving.

      Congratulations on your intelligence, determination and guts. We need many, many more with your motivation.
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      • Posted by scojohnson 5 years, 2 months ago
        Thanks, it seems like the perspective of a lot of people looking for the 'easy way' is that people in higher paid/higher experience positions just fell into them somehow... unfortunately, I don't know anyone that has happened to in real life, only in the movies.

        Best thing these kids can do would be to start a lawn mowing business, set the goal of getting 100 customers, and invest in equipment, employees, etc., to meet the demand while learning a heck of a lot about selling something in the process.

        Once they can do that - its just "sell something bigger".

        I also get a kick out of people that say "I don't want to be in sales"... ok... so you are not interested in being part of what grows the company... so... you want to be in 'overhead'? How can you ever lead if you have no idea where the money that pays your salary comes from?

        Even now, I get a lot of interest from coworkers that are saying "hey, can you keep me in mind for a better job in the organization?".... Ok... so you want me to go out and win new business, to give you a new job. Ok.. no problem, but let's consider the base of what you are asking...
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  • Posted by wiggys 5 years, 2 months ago
    Trump as well as all candidates and all other congressman as well as the president have no earthly idea as to how to bring manufacturing back to the USA. It was government interference in businesses starting in the 1960's with hostile policies and rules that gave reason for companies large and eventuallt small to leave the USA. The end result today is unskilled workers for even the most simple jobs. It is the government policies today that reward people for sitting on their butts because those people are voters so they will always vote for the guy that pays them the most. So the answer is that he and his ilk will never accomplish what they talk about and they know it.
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    • Posted by plusaf 5 years, 2 months ago
      Recent reports of China setting up textile mill production in NC or SC 'because it's cheaper here' have surfaced, per my predictions of a few years back.
      When the cotton is spun into thread, it's shipped back to Asia to be woven into products for export.
      That, too, will change as living standards and wages 'there' rise, as they have over the past decades.
      Everyone assumes the trends are linear, infinite and irreversible. And that's just stupid.
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    • Posted by blackswan 5 years, 2 months ago
      Government meddling began in the 1880s, starting with the Clayton act, followed by antitrust and other "solutions" to so-called robber baronism. As long as people continue to hold on to the idea that a politician can fix an economic problem, you'll continue to see this BS.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 2 months ago
        Government meddling (corporate welfare and political corruption) started much earlier, but the first big 'success' was achieved by Abe Lincoln with the tariff that caused the death of 500,000 American soldiers, destroyed states rights, and made serfs of the previously sovereign people. That opened the door to the corruption that is common today. It took 50 years before the banksters bribed their way into creation and control of the federal reserve banking cartel. Since that time the slope down has grown steeper with every election. Looters are in and outside of government and both the Dems and GOP are under looter control.
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  • Posted by 5 years, 2 months ago
    Hello all. I am new to the Gulch. I am waiting to reach my score of 100 so I am allowed to "Thumbs Up" and "Thumbs Down" comments. Would it be improper of me to ask you to "Thumbs Up" and "Thumbs Down" my comments on my post here so I can start earning some points?
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    • Posted by $ winterwind 5 years, 2 months ago
      short answer: yes

      longer answer: read your own post. You are SO in the wrong place to ask for something for nothing.
      You have to "earn" the points, not just ask for them. Add value to the site, other people will see, and note, that value - and your points total will go up. Add no value? Points go down.

      I'm concerned that what you want to do here is vote. The "point" of this site is not to vote. It's to discuss, learn, think, and grow. Do that, and you'll gain points.

      But how will you use them?
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    • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 5 years, 2 months ago
      Um, I don't understand why you think that here, of all places, you would receive something for nothing. Do you understand the basic premise of objectivism, at all? Have you read Atlas Shrugged, yet came away without the smallest understanding of the value of something earned, and not mooched? Do you know the oath, and deeply and truly know what it means? How it resonates with every aspect of a life lived by the use of one's OWN mind and effort?
      I think you have landed in a place where you have not yet learned the language or the culture.
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      • Posted by 5 years, 2 months ago
        I admit I was wrong to ask. And I am getting points. I'm a registered Libertarian, an Ayn Rand-er for 40 years now, read just about everything she ever wrote including The Objectist Newletter, (I have about 2 years of saved issues). I read Atlas Shrugged 3 times so far. By far my favorite book. I was so happy to find Ayn Rand in my early twenties and I agree with her on most things. I do, however, believe in God. I have only found a deep appreciation of beauty, creation, and a connection through my belief in God. It has never been a negative in my life. I have found these things in my readings of Ayn Rand also. I'm very happy to be a member of Galt's Gulch.... Andrea
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  • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 2 months ago
    The solution to keeping manufacturing here is an easy fix, but politicians, whose spines are made of pasta will never do it. Here's the way to do it:
    First, realign workers hourly pay and pension plans so that they reflect productivity, rather than time spent on the job.
    Second, lower taxes so that the company's shareholders and officers are able to compete with overseas manufacturers. That's it. But, it will never happen the way things go today.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 5 years, 2 months ago
    Since having a healthy manufacturing base calls for a certain percentage of the population to use their minds and their hands to create a product, let's lay out the facts.

    This concept requires persons with multiple skill sets, the knowledge of how things work, how they are put together and how to fix them if they break.
    Given the fact that for quite a number of years now, wood shop, metals shop, home-ec and the like are no longer taught in many high schools, our young have a dearth of knowledge in the areas of hand-eye-mind coordination.

    Add to that the fact that our culture stresses the need for our youth to achieve a 4-year (or more) degree so that "they can make more money and don't get dirt under their fingernails" and I don't see manufacturing coming back full-bore any time soon....IMHO.
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    • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
      if manufacturing came back to the USA, it would be automated to a big degree, getting RID of the need for those skills. It will never return to the way it was years ago. Robots and automation have advanced a LOT since then. The employee regulations and taxation have forced buying from china and have not given our young people the time to find other careers. When they have to find new work, it just wont be there for them.
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      • Posted by teri-amborn 5 years, 2 months ago
        Very true. However I have worked in a few factories and all the employees tend to have one skill or the other (many with multiple skills).
        Robots and machines need maintenance. Product doesn't move out the shipping door by itself. Loading the machines with raw materials is a human job.
        Again, those are some of those "dirty jobs" that most young folks rarely have the right stuff to do.
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        • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
          I think that more and more things can indeed be handled by more intelligent robots and manufacturing systems. Robots can be made easier to fix by just replacing subsystems. Product can pretty much move out the shipping door by itself already. Raw material loading is not as difficult as it seems when raw materials arrive in pre-configured lots. I am not saying we are at 100% robots yet, but the science of robotics has been progressing behind the scenes, and just prevented from being implemented because of the cheap chinese labor.
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          • Posted by teri-amborn 5 years, 2 months ago
            Yes.
            My very dear friend is a process controls engineer and my husband has worked hand-in-hand with her installing updates, robotics and panels &subsystems in many different manufacturing facilities.
            Robotics are wonderful! They will ultimately replace the jobs that wear out humans and human joints like lifting, certain types of welding and painting, etc.
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            • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
              The first goal of robotics is to help business work easier and faster to achieve things with less manual labor. As the robots get smarter, they take over higher level things so people dont have to handle repetitive and dangerous work. Buying from china has slowed robotics implementation in the USA, because the chinese workers are cheaper than the robots. Remove the inexpensive chinese workers, and we will see an explosion in the use of robots here in this country.
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              • Posted by teri-amborn 5 years, 2 months ago
                Agreed.
                Now, let's get to work making certain that there are enough programmers who can also diagnose and fix mechanical devices.
                Early education is vital to creating a well-rounded engineer.
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                • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
                  This is something that is up to the smart people to figure out themselves. Forget regular college. Its nearly useless and just being touted as necessary- at a huge cost and borrowing legacy. Programming can be learned many other ways, and practical knowledge is learned by being an apprentice
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 5 years, 2 months ago
    I agree there have been too many providing lips-service. Brash has always been his forte and his business practices of cozying up to and cajoling politicians with donations is both a weakness of the man and a strength. Its early, there is much road to go before a decision need be made. I'll be on the fence with all of them until someone wow's me with substance. Below is a link to his stated economic policy.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governme...
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  • Posted by jdg 5 years, 2 months ago
    Trump doesn't give a hoot about manufacturing, nor know anything about it. His know-how is in real estate and entertainment, and he's king of the cronyists. I'm surprised somebody like Rand Paul hasn't taken the opportunity to name the highlights of Trump's career as exactly the kind of cronyism the law needs to prevent if it's ever going to regain its honor in the eyes of the average American.
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  • Posted by blackswan 5 years, 2 months ago
    The thing I noticed about the debates is the fact that the wrong questions and answers were presented. We are asking politicians to "fix" something that they broke with more "fixing." They gave the unions too much power; we can see that with the success of the $15 per hour campaign. Nothing was offered in exchange for that wage. Further, the government has bamboozled us into thinking that it can do something about the climate, ignoring the fact that climate has been changing drastically for thousands of years without our help. They're also ignoring the fact that we're paying the highest taxes in the world, and can expect to pay a lot more because of their deficit spending. Finally (possibly), they're regulating whole industries out of business, and meddling to such an extent that business is no longer a winning proposition in the US. I go with John Galt, when he said, "get the hell out of my way."
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  • Posted by wiggys 5 years, 2 months ago
    I just read that the American Enterprise Institute said that 1000 jobs have been lost in seattle since the wage went to $11.00 an hour. who is going to higher these people politician?
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  • Posted by VetteGuy 5 years, 2 months ago
    I am convinced that Trump is in this entirely for Trump. Apparently, buying politicians does not give him the level of power he desires. The only alternative is to be in direct control of the power. He could go to a third world country, buy the military and become emperor, but why bother. All he has to do is depose the current emperor here. Following the current POTUS's example, he could have virtually unfettered access to the most powerful country in the world simply by passing Imperial Edicts, er ... uh ... Executive Orders. For as long as it lasts.

    The only thing he has to do is convince the voters that he's doing it all for them. He's an excellent salesman, and again, has a very good example to follow.

    I could probably be cynical if I let myself ...
    VG
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
    Does it matter? He's not first tier anymore.Better you ask what Carly and Jindal's strategy might be.

    Truth is we can't afford to bring manufacturing back to the USA. No one could buy the products least of all the beleaguered US citizens. It's hard enough making budget stretch to cover Walmart, Amazon and the Dollar Stores,
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    • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
      Inflation is being hidden by the low cost of chinese goods and labor. If there was a gold standard, the chinese yuan would rise dramatically in value and the US dollar would drop as it should because of our politicians deficit spending. That would make things more expensive here when bought from china. It would bring manufacturing back to the USA, but we would have to grapple with 15-20% inflation for a number of years (which is what the inflation should be to compensate for all the deficits and federal reserve money printings). A pretty big recession would ensue while things stabilized. The longer we wait to fix this, the worse its going to be when it cant be fixed any more.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
        I make it 30% but the question is since it's a bona fife part of the economy why is not reflected in the annual COLA? One percent is an insult under the true picture. Especially since Treasury indicated we're at max debt service capabilities as a percentage of GDP.

        Looks to me like the fairly good job claim is code for bankruptcy.
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        • Posted by $ Technocracy 5 years, 2 months ago
          One percent COLA is both an insult and a sop.

          Its a sop to people collecting social security so that DC can point to it and say "we ARE giving you a cost of living increase"
          Its an insult on multiple levels, anyone aware of the state of economy knows that 1% as an inflation match is a lie. Its an insult to the unaware because the government is basically saying they are too stupid to realize it.
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        • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
          Anyone alive knows its not 1% currently by just going around for an hour to stores. Let alone restaurants. Its hidden by the foreigners buying up our debt and the federal reserve just printing up more and more of it to keep interest rates low. These politicians should be strung up really for what they are doing. At least Trump might actually expose what is going on so people can see it.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
            Whatever he's a RINO and a left winger so that is not his purpose. At the very least he would continue the coverup but I don't see him getting that far. He's a spoiler not a leader. When you say at the least you are saying lesser of two evils. So do you support evil? Think about it. The other way of saying it is ends justifies the means. Good example. is 9/11 to present. We justified giving up everything we stood for as a nation and to what end? Secular Devils get behind me is the only way to treat two or more evil choices - at least to use your words you will still be able to look in the mirror and explain yourself to your grand children with some self respect. I am using you generally but also saying think about what you said. Does it really fit what you believe? I helped win second place also rans once before in the sixties and seventies. Since then I've only chosen first place. That does not include Trump nor any of the former first tier nor the opinions of the flying monkeys.
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            • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
              The fact of the matter is that SOMEONE will get elected president. My single vote input to that is really of minimal consequence. A John Galt isnt running, and wouldnt be elected at this point in time anyway. I could choose simply not to vote at all, which I think is an OK thing to do if you dont want to be responsible for more statism. The think I like about Trump is that he is not politically correct and will just say it like he sees it. I think we need this in order for the populace to really see whats going on, and perhaps understand why our once great country is crashing. THAT is why I think he or someone else who will do the same thing is needed.

              And there will be a congress and supreme court that gets elected/appointed.
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
                It's all right to be a fan of the left. We take all view points here.
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                • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
                  I am not a fan of the left at all. I just think that to get people in general here to not want statism, they have to experience the failure of it without it being hidden. Trump would bring to light what is currently hidden. I really don't know if he could reverse the path the country is on.
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                  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
                    Another example

                    "According to a new Franklin Pierce/Boston Herald poll, Clinton is losing to opponent Bernie Sanders in New Hampshire by seven points. Not only is this a surge, but it's outside the margin of error."

                    Bernie Sanders whose true political beliefs are to the left of the Democrats (Independent has all sorts of meanings) and left wing socialist Statist and practicing smiley faced fascist Hillary are the best the left has to offer.

                    Unless they have some DINOs hiding in the woodpile. What's a DINO? Depends on which direction your going. But neither of them is anywhere near the Constitution as the Center.

                    Red Bernie (Bear) and the Wicked Witch of the Left.

                    Now there's another mystery solved by proper definiitions. Red is the world wide color for Communism. and socialist extremists. Republicans embraced the title of Red Nation. Democrats as Blue? Great mis-direction. Neither of the two chose Red, White and Blue

                    Getting awful lonely over here in the Center. But I'll stick to my Constitutional Oath.
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                    • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
                      I am leaning towards thinking the Democratic Party candidate will be Biden. The repub candidate will be bush. Repubs and the media hate trump and I can't see them backing him. If trump splits to 3 rd party, Biden will be next president. Sanders is too vocal about being socialist to win, and Hilary's campaign is dead at this point.
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                      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
                        Bush and Biden. Bore and the Boor. Now that out to send attendance at the polls into a nose dive.
                        Bush representing the aristocracy and Biden representing ... let me think about this...Sexists?

                        On a serious note Biden was chosen as a balance and vote getter and like most in a long long line of #2's not for his abilities or capabilities in the #1 spot. I give it 51 Bush 49 Biden from the lesser of two evils - ends justifies the means crowd - and another argument over hanging chads and why does electoral win over popular. Unless Obeyme uses executive powers to overturn the chad count.

                        Lesser of two evils is self explanatory or should be it's fo r the people who support evil.

                        Ends justifies the means is when you go to war to defend what you are as a nation but abandon all morals, values and principles in order to win and in the end are left with defeat to matter who won or lost.

                        Best example is our present situation. Foreign Terrorists 1 Home Grown Terrorists 1 USA -2
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                  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
                    the left. those that believe or support government controlling citizens.

                    the center - those that see the need for a mix of both but do so following the constitution. with the constitution as the center.

                    the right those that believe and support citizens in control of government.

                    The definition of center according to the left is the center of the left currently with the Republican Party as it's right wing.

                    Leftist extremists Communists Nazis Secular Progressives

                    Right wing extremists - Anarchists.

                    Amazing how clear things become when you don't give in to the definitions of the left.

                    Where did I get that from? History prior to the redefinitions of the socialist revolution of the 1900's. All they had to do was move the sign post to the left of the Constitution and then keep repeating.

                    In case you wonder why the Republicans keep caving. They aren't. They are leftists with some at best claiming to be centrist.

                    An easy example. Why would Madonna an avowed leftist lionize Evita Peron supposedly a right wing fascist and make her a heroine of the left? Answer. Evita Peron was part of the right wing of the left Madonna an icon wannabe from the left wing -of the left. Common belief -Government over people.

                    Remember George Carlin's comments on Smiley Faced left wing Fascists?

                    Fascism can be used almost anywhere in the spectrum be it political or religious or corporate or the public schools. All it means is government control by any and all means. One never finds it with a strong belief in government control of citizens.

                    Three parts of the left? Corporatist Socialists (really big business) , Statist Socialists (government), Union leaders. That developed by Mussolini supposedly a right winger. He was having switched from the left wing of the left to the right wing of the left. International to national socialism another way of putting it.

                    Governments which are indistinguishable from religion - the islamics? Left wing fascists.

                    Liberals as as a term amuse me. Liberal means make change fast. Conservative meant make change slowly. Todays modern left wing socialist fascists such as Democrats and Republicans but especially the Democrats are we want it all we want now speed demons until entrenched when the suddenly become conservative. especially for changing back to something like Constitutional Amendments instead of rigged lawsuits, hand selected judges, or executive orders.

                    Just to keep it all together the definition of fascist economics is socialist economics with a thin patina of capitalism heavily controlled by government.

                    Definitions are a wonderful useful tool - IF- they are correct.

                    Still going to support the left? Maybe as an individual who still has one foot planted in the center but the party itself is left wing socialist fascist and so are it's suipporters.

                    Why?

                    Fear is as good a reason as any. After all fear is the economic standard why not the political standard.






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              • Posted by $ winterwind 5 years, 2 months ago
                There is, along with not voting, the option of "casting a blank" - not voting on that race. There is always, buried somewhere in the results numbers, a figure that gives the number of ballots cast which you can compare with the number of votes for sw,y,z,f. So someone at least knows that happens. ^ ^
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
                Mores the pity. My real point is he's not there to get elected. he's there to keep others from getting elected or even noticed. The last thing they want is a trash mouth Perot.

                The script for the national charade isn't written any other way but the conclusion decided upon - previously. It's all street theater. barring some ballsy extemporaneous gate crashing.

                So far Trump has never come close to that level of thespian attainment.
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                • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
                  we will c I suppose. I doubt he would actually make it all the way to the ballot box anyway in one of the major parties. I think its going to be bush vs biden. Hillary has shot herself in the foot. If Trump doesnt get the repub nomination, he will prob go third party and biden will get the presidency. Its not my country really anymore anyway
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                  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
                    As I stated a few minutes ago in this thread Trump's people just announced he's expected to take the No Third Party pledge August 10th. Wow that's today.

                    Told you he's not a candidate he's a spoiler. Taking that pledge proves it. He's just another RINO left wing socialist corporatist.

                    BOHICA
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                    • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
                      Well, if he takes the no 3rd party pledge, he really DOESNT want to run. The Repubs will never run him on their ballot willingly. They will find some way to keep him from winning the primary
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                      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
                        I hope they do. A vote for any of the top tier excluding the one new addition is the same as a vote for the Government Party and is a vote against the Constitution and a vote for evil. But not to worry he will do like all good little lapdogs and pay his socalist corporatist part then go home. yip yip yip throw the dog a Bohner.

                        Better yet save it for soup you might need it.
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                    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
                      Whoops now it's 'ABC is reporting he is considering taking the No Third Party Pledge that he refused to take on Aug 6th." Now there's real leadership....waffle waffle waffle. Same old Same old .......nothing. did you Trump-eters just take a good dose of BOHICA?
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  • Posted by $ Temlakos 5 years, 2 months ago
    Good question. Then again: what plan has any of his opponents put forth?
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
      Good Question. Carly and Jindal came out on top and the media immediately starts trump-eting. Where's the in depth interviews? Where are the journalists? Will no one rid me of these meddlesome reporters?
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
        I did some googling and found some references to his 23% cuts in cost of government but mostly it was just attack dog's crapping on his lawn. But I've watched this one since the days of Katrina or longer and will continue to do so. Ms. Carly Fiorno I'll get it right one of these days
        moved up let's up she isn't hit with reverse bimbo-ism from the media smile in your face back stabbers. My advise to the both of them NEVER trust a reporter. they are part of the script. Try to find a journalist instead. Probably a harder task than the economy or any of the other inheritances left by the Clinton - Bush - Obama lega...leg of.... you ever see those chick en feet in the butcher shop section of the supermarket?
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