The Demise of Christianity

Posted by jrberts5 10 years, 3 months ago to History
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A 1948 Gallup Poll placed the number of US citizens claiming to be Christians at 91%. In 2012, a Gallup Poll put that number at 77%. That is a drop of 14% points over a period of 64 years. This happened despite the recent rise of the religious right. To be sure, much of this can be attributed to Kantian derivatives but Ayn Rand's influence is there also. If things remain the same (which they won't) and projecting those numbers in to the future, Christians will be in the minority in the US by the year 2140 and further will disappear altogether a couple of hundred years later. Numbers don't lie but the future is not set. Two things can potentially happen that will change the numeric trend. First, the establishment of a Christian, totalitarian dictatorship under which many more people would profess their faith due to having a gun pointed at their head. Second, Ayn Rand's ideas will begin to take hold academically and culturally and the number and rate of people abandoning irrationality will increase. Doubt these possibilities? Remember, Adolf Hitler first came on the scene politically sometime in 1921 and was elected Chancellor only 12 years later. The Communist Manifesto was published in 1948 and the Bolsheviks took power in Russia in 1917. That is just 69 years. Atlas shrugged was published 57 years ago. Are we just 12 more years away from the emergence of our own Hitler or 12 years away from a revolution of reason? For a very scholarly and rational treatment of historical trends and the state of our culture, I would strongly suggest reading Leonard Peikoff's The DIM Hypothesis.


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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 3 months ago
    Like mminnick said, this is most likely due to an influx of non-Christian people immigrating to the U.S., rather than an actual decline in Christian belief itself.

    Plus you've also got to take population levels into account. In 1948, the total population of the United States was 146.6 million. In 2010, it was 309.3 million.

    91% of 146.6 million is 133.4 million.
    77% of 309.3 million is 238.1 million.

    So really, there are more Christians in America today than there were in 1948, in spite of the fact that they comprise a lower percentage of the population now than they did then.

    Statistics can be misleading if you forget to account for all relevant information... ;)
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    • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
      mminnick did not say that, I did. I put it in the form of a question and asked for an explanation of what he meant by saying that the numbers were affected by immigration and population shift. He has not responded and that is not surprising. In every instance where someone religious on here tries to counter a rational argument with some concept(s) which you will not define or say how they relate, you don't respond when asked for explanation. I suspect you think that this wins you the argument--if you get the last word in then you win or something like that. That doesn't win anything for you because people want real answers and will only settle for less if they have no choice. It is impossible, of course, to define or apply concepts if they are nothing but floating abstractions to you.
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      • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 3 months ago
        jrberts5: "mminnick did not say that, I did."
        ----
        I was referring to this comment of his:

        mminnick: "This is in part due to population shift and immigration. It is not all Christians giving up there faith."
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    • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 3 months ago
      "Like mminnick said, this is most likely due to an influx of non-Christian people immigrating to the U.S.,"

      yes, because we all know those from hispanic countries are never, ever Catholic...
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      • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
        Ideas, not immigration, is the cause of the decline and demise of Christianity. If it actually was immigration, that would still be supporting evidence of my statements.
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  • Posted by mminnick 10 years, 3 months ago
    A 1948 Gallup Poll placed the number of US citizens claiming to be Christians at 91%. In 2012, a Gallup Poll put that number at 77%. That is a drop of 14% points over a period of 64 years

    This is in part due to population shift and immigration. It is not all Christians giving up there faith .
    Historicall Note: Hitler wsa not elected Chancellor. He was appoint because the Nazi Party won a plurality of the vote (about a third) and the Communist Party was a close second and Hindenburg (President of the Weimer republic) did not want a communist as Chancellor.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
      Thanks for the Hitler correction but it doesn't change the fact that his rise to power was swift. Could you please explain how population shift and immigration affects these numbers? Are you saying that a large of enough number of Christians immigrated out of the US or that a large enough number of non-Christians immigrated into the US to result in a 14% drop? The majority of Hispanic immigrants are mostly Catholic which would help to increase the total number of Christians here and as for Islam. Hindusim, and Buddhism combined they make up only about 1% of the population. The online Free Dictionary defines population shift as "a change in the relative numbers of the different groups of individuals making up a population." Having dealt with the groups I mentioned, how does it apply to the numbers?
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    Posted by EconomicFreedom 10 years, 3 months ago
    >That is a drop of 14% points over a period of 64 years.

    In 1948, US population was about 147M; 91% of that is about 134M.

    In 2012, US population was about 313M; 77% of that is about 241M.

    In absolute numbers, there were more citizens claiming to be Christian in 2012 than there were in 1948. Why should percentage of population be significant here?

    You're reaching.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
      In absolute numbers, there are also more Objectivists but in that regard numbers are inconsequential. It only takes one clear, rational, objective mind to redirect the course of events for the entire world. The person with that mind was Ayn Rand. Her philosophy is a more complete, integrated system than any that came before it and will eventually (if the human race survives) push all other ideologies into the pages of history. That was the result of Plato's philosophy--see The Dark Ages, the result of Aristotle (to an extent since he had some epistemological similarities to Plato)--see the Industrial revolution, and the result of Kant's philosophy--see the mess we have now. There could very well be another Dark Ages before it happens but that change is inevitable.
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      • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 3 months ago
        I don't think that's ever going to happen. Human beings are naturally diverse in their beliefs and ideology. The claim that any particular philosophy will eventually dominate the entire world is unrealistic. Maybe a particular geographical area, sure, but not the whole world.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
          If you are correct, then you will be able to give me at least one location on Earth where Socialism has yet to command some level of influence. And I hope you can because I want to move there. If a flawed ideology such as socialism can spread as far and wide as quickly as it has then Objectivism will be more successful-eventually.
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      • -1
        Posted by EconomicFreedom 10 years, 3 months ago
        >In absolute numbers, there are also more Objectivists

        Show us the poll numbers supporting that assertion.
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        • Posted by Rozar 10 years, 3 months ago
          You realize in 1948 there were like, zero objectivists. It hadn't been conceptualized yet.
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          • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
            Correct, Ayn Rand's philosophy really wasn't out there for public consumption and, therefore, understanding and integration, until the publication of Atlas Shrugged. I guess that means that just one Objectivist constitutes an increase.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
          Something about your question leads me to ask: are you opposed to an increase in the number of Objectivists and, if so, why are you here?
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          • -1
            Posted by EconomicFreedom 10 years, 3 months ago
            >Something about your question. . .

            Hard to articulate something when you're letting your feelings guide you, I see. Maybe if you actually thought about it, you'd be able to say precisely what it is about my question that leads you to think that.
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            • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
              Your unwillingness to answer the first part of my question in fact answers it. But your first statement does point to the actual role of emotions in human survival. If your values are based on reality and are rational as mine are, your emotional reactions will provide you feelings that reflect the truth about whatever elicits them without an explanation. The essentials or principles at play may not be readily apparent but emotions in tune with a rational mind will give an indicator if something is good or bad. And that statement does not say that emotions take precedent over thought. It simply says that your emotions are telling you something and you must figure out what that is at some point. No, it is not hard to articulate. It is difficult, time consuming, and to some extent boring when others attempt to hide what they mean and you have to try to peer through the fog and make out its true nature.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
          As this site demonstrates, there are many that are in fact committed to irrationality yet attempt to use the title of Objectivist, Christians for example. Because of that, an accurate count is impossible. In addition, many Objectivists may have already shrugged and are not to be found.
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          • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 3 months ago
            Check your premise. You assume that Christians are irrational.
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            • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
              The premise is existence exists which defines the proper orientation to reality for Objectivists. It is the basis for all other Objectivist principles. With the understanding of this premise comes the knowledge that nothing outside this universe can impact it and the elimination of the idea of God. It is not an assumption, it is a fact. To believe in a god is to reject the principle that existence exists and therefore all other principles of Objectivism and that only leaves the irrational.
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