Ayn Rand, Abortion, and Planned Parenthood.

Posted by Eudaimonia 9 years, 9 months ago to Politics
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Kevin Williamson of National Review did a follow-up to his piece which I posted here yesterday.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/...

In this current piece, again on the Planned Parenthood atrocity (my word), he takes a shot at Planned Parenthhood apologists by referencing Rand
"Why not have a Fast Freddy’s Fetal Livers Emporium and Bait Shop in every town large enough to merit a Dairy Queen? If you are having some difficulty answering that question, perhaps you should, as some famous abortion-rights advocate once put it, check your premises."

Some people have taken this line to also be an implication of Rand.
Me, I'm not sure, there's a few things I disagree with Rand on, abortion being one of them.

But, what is Rand's view on abortion?
Here is a link the entry in the Ayn Rand Lexicon.
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/abo...

I think the most relevant portion is this.
"A piece of protoplasm has no rights—and no life in the human sense of the term. One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy, but the essential issue concerns only the first three months."

In Rand's day, that's what abortion was.

Now, I'm no doctor, but I doubt very much that organ tissue can be harvested from a first trimester embryo.
I speculate that Planned Parenthood was harvesting exclusively from late term and even partial-birth abortions.

What Rand would say about this is also speculative, although we can infer from her words "One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy..."

So, Objectivists, what say you?

Disclosure, my personal opinions on abortion - the human animal is a biological machine, as such it has core programming (instinctual drives). Maternal instincts are some of the most powerful any animal possesses, even stronger than Self-preservation or Species-reproduction. As such, I believe that when a woman has an abortion, regardless of the trimester, her maternal instinct kicks in at some level - automatic, unstoppable, irrevocable, unaffected by popular opinion of what abortion is supposed to be. As such, I believe that when a woman gets an abortion, she is doing deep and permanent psychological damage to herself. The existence of groups such as Silent No More lead me to suspect that my opinion is correct. What is the percentage of women who are psychologically damaged by an abortion? Who knows, and with today's Lysenko "scientists" I doubt there will be any unbiased research done. Regardless, until women who are considering an abortion first get counselling on the (what I believe) strong probability of psychological damage from the procedure, I can not be anything but against it.

This disclosure is also open for debate on this thread.


All Comments


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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Of course there is no nervous system at conception, to say the least, and it takes more than having a nervous system to have rights.

    The religionists don't care. They have no understanding of why we have rights and what the requirements are. They have a mystical notion of the source of rights and misuse the concept as a floating abstraction, contradicting the rights that human beings do have.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Beginning of life does not determine when and why born human beings have rights.

    Religionists do in fact denounce the "morning after pill".
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is an absurd and irrelevant statement. Whether or not any particular individual has a rational defense of his advocacy of the right of abortion, alleged "statistics" claiming "an agenda of eugenics and racial cleansing" say nothing about those who do. Government protection of abortion rights or protection of any kind of rights cannot be denied as "defacto" part of an agenda of eugenics and racial cleansing".
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No it isn't. It is potentially the beginning of the development of a human. Assigning "rights" to the blob of cells at conception misuses the concept of rights as a floating abstraction severed from the facts of the nature of human beings that give rise to the concept. It is a typically religious mystical notion that does in fact contract rights, violating rights for the sake of entities with no rights.
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  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by AmericanGreatness 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Is that birth at full term, premature, life support... when? We know brain activity begins at six weeks. Do you know at what point consciousness begin?
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Having rights requires being a human being, not cells with human genes. Life as a human being begins when you are born, not at conception.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Brain activity" exists in all kinds of animals and has nothing to do with a necessary condition for rights.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That's not what I did. Am I happy that my cousins lived? You bet. But that's not why I came to that conclusion. Nice linguistics, though.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    They were living humans at 6-months. There's your proof. To kill a living human is murder. This is basic deduction at its finest.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 9 months ago
    Rick, the sum of a human egg and sperm is a human being,
    and its host may eliminate it at will, according to current law,
    "until birth." . if I were a female, I could not do it. -- j
    .
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 9 months ago
    You, I, and other citizens should not pay for any procedure or medical treatment of anyone for any reason other charity, if we feel charitable. In that manner, those that support procedures such as abortion could voluntarily contribute and those that don't support, could choose to not contribute.

    But as our country is now, neither can ever be satisfied, and the reality is that the conservatives want the government to coercively deny that procedure. That is statism, and we all lose.
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  • Posted by JoleneMartens1982 9 years, 9 months ago
    If our tax dollars are to be used to aid these people in resolving poor choices, I say look not to abortion but to education and birth control. I know many people who would have gladly paid to have a full historectmy at a young age, but were denied by society. Also, all of these trailer park welfare women living off tons of illigitmate children that they do not love, care for, or even provide for, why are we not offering affordable permanent birth control options. It cost me $6000 out of pocket to get my tubes tied, why would they spend on that when they could get a boob job for less. It infuriates me to talk to welfare mommas. They are proud of being worthless.
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  • Posted by JoleneMartens1982 9 years, 9 months ago
    I don't believe in abortion, not for any reason or at any term. I believe every life belongs to God and only he has right to take it. However, I believe if someone chooses to harm another be it death or in a way that they will struggle mentally or physically, the person should pay for that life with his/her own. I also include people who manipulate others. I believe public executions should be used swiftly and in all of these cases. I do not believe a murderer or a child molester, or a man like Charles Manson should remain in our society after they have so obviously destroyed others, just to spread the madness. End their life and perhaps save many!
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I did not bring up the subject of murder anywhere in the discussion. I expected disagreement with some of my other points, but not this one.

    From a purely Objectivist standpoint, one should live with one's choices. In the case of rape or incest, the sexual act did not involve consent. Are you really going to argue on behalf of telling someone to live with the consequences of a decision that was made for them against their will?
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The question for me is why I and other taxpayers should pay for irresponsible choices that create the moral concern. If a woman definitely does not want any (or more) children, then a tubal ligation settles that, and simple, scar-free surgery is something I would gratefully be willing to pay for. I also see nothing wrong with making contraceptives freely available. Those are choices that make more sense than choosing to have irresponsible sex.
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    • Zenphamy replied 9 years, 9 months ago
  • -2
    Posted by romcentee 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Where are the men of the mind, the
    individuals that will stand up for
    themselves ....."

    Maybe they were aborted.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    wood, and what I'm replying to you is that regardless of what brings anyone to this issue from the standpoint of an Objectivist, all we see is environmentalist, animal rights idiots, liberals, or conservatives--they are all asking the government to get between a man and his decisions and control of his body and life, when it's used, what it's used for, the very essence of human liberty and rights--and all based on the subjective belief of those irrational activist and all contributing to the growth of the state over the loss to the individual. And most of them speaking from both sides of their mouths.

    It's not that your 'inconsistency' in law touched a nerve in me, it's that an avowed conservative on this site advocating for greater control by government over our lives and larger growth is abhorrent to me and only serves to drive me further away from involvement with this society of fools and panderers.

    Where are the men of the mind, the individuals that will stand up for themselves and their rights, those with the moral certainty to stand in the face of socialism, collectivism, and statism and say NO, I am a free man.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would agree with the challenge if it were clear that a fetus is a human life, but it seems like a thought experiment to me.

    I actually think it would be sadder to pull the plug on a truly self-aware machine than to abort an unaware fetus. One of these two can recognize its own end. The self-aware machine can probably even pass the Turing Test. The fetus cannot even respond.

    If your hope comes true, I add the hope that we also have the wisdom to do this ONLY when there is a nurturing, willing, interested party that will responsibly care for the eventual child, and that the procedure is paid for by this party. Otherwise, you just multiplied a problem we already have.
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think that the idea of a woman being forced to carry a fetus to term as a consequence of it being her choice to have sex and not if the sex is forced on her is completely off base.

    Either we are talking about the destruction of a human life that we should protect, or it's no one's business but the mothers. We can't accept murder only if it's not her 'fault' -- if we believe it to be murder.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There have been times when I was not sure where you were coming from. I'd be wondering does this guy dislike me or what? Gal, I now mean.
    If it makes you feel any better, I thought Robbie was a girl.almost up until the time he faded away.
    Why?
    I was very fond of a female Robbie a good long time ago.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I saw this part of the definition in your earlier post. This is why metabolism is one of several criteria that define life. I think the web site I directed you or someone else to earlier had seven criteria in the biological definition of life. The egg and sperm cells, as well as the uncooked sausages, would not meet the definition of life by the other criteria, but an unimplanted tissue derived from one's own stem cells could be considered life by those criteria, but not by Rand's criteria for human life, which requires sentience at a minimum.
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