Ayn Rand, Abortion, and Planned Parenthood.

Posted by Eudaimonia 9 years, 9 months ago to Politics
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Kevin Williamson of National Review did a follow-up to his piece which I posted here yesterday.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/...

In this current piece, again on the Planned Parenthood atrocity (my word), he takes a shot at Planned Parenthhood apologists by referencing Rand
"Why not have a Fast Freddy’s Fetal Livers Emporium and Bait Shop in every town large enough to merit a Dairy Queen? If you are having some difficulty answering that question, perhaps you should, as some famous abortion-rights advocate once put it, check your premises."

Some people have taken this line to also be an implication of Rand.
Me, I'm not sure, there's a few things I disagree with Rand on, abortion being one of them.

But, what is Rand's view on abortion?
Here is a link the entry in the Ayn Rand Lexicon.
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/abo...

I think the most relevant portion is this.
"A piece of protoplasm has no rights—and no life in the human sense of the term. One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy, but the essential issue concerns only the first three months."

In Rand's day, that's what abortion was.

Now, I'm no doctor, but I doubt very much that organ tissue can be harvested from a first trimester embryo.
I speculate that Planned Parenthood was harvesting exclusively from late term and even partial-birth abortions.

What Rand would say about this is also speculative, although we can infer from her words "One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy..."

So, Objectivists, what say you?

Disclosure, my personal opinions on abortion - the human animal is a biological machine, as such it has core programming (instinctual drives). Maternal instincts are some of the most powerful any animal possesses, even stronger than Self-preservation or Species-reproduction. As such, I believe that when a woman has an abortion, regardless of the trimester, her maternal instinct kicks in at some level - automatic, unstoppable, irrevocable, unaffected by popular opinion of what abortion is supposed to be. As such, I believe that when a woman gets an abortion, she is doing deep and permanent psychological damage to herself. The existence of groups such as Silent No More lead me to suspect that my opinion is correct. What is the percentage of women who are psychologically damaged by an abortion? Who knows, and with today's Lysenko "scientists" I doubt there will be any unbiased research done. Regardless, until women who are considering an abortion first get counselling on the (what I believe) strong probability of psychological damage from the procedure, I can not be anything but against it.

This disclosure is also open for debate on this thread.


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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago
    Regarding "Fast Freddy’s Fetal Livers Emporium", from an entrepeneurial standpoint, I can agree with that, but there are problems with such an emporium.

    The first problem regards the ethics of how the livers were generated.
    A good primer on stem cells is at
    http://biochem158.stanford.edu/14%20S...
    Particularly focus on slide 13. The reference to Yamanaka at the bottom of the page should have ended the stem cell debate, at least from a moral standpoint because it is no longer necessary to harvest embryos to obtain pluripotent stem cells.

    The second problem with the generation of tissues is the immune response. If one reprograms one's own stem cells, the immune response is nonexistent. If one uses a different source of stem cells, the immunogenic responses range from minimal to outright rejection, with most responses being significant but not showstoppers.

    The third problem is the long-term cancer risk. Because such tissues are not native to that human being, this is a significant biological control problem. In 20-50 years, biomedical engineers will understand all of the necessary control variables and their levels, but right now we (and I have moved into this field over the last several years) have a teenager's understanding of such tissue engineering. Sometimes we get it right. Other times there are some serious accidents, just like teenagers in cars. Fortunately the vast majority of these "accidents" happen long before clinical trials.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Without going into formal psychology, I can conclude that someone who gets an abortion is ultimately denying that A = A, or that existence exists. I am perfectly willing to oppose Ms. Rand on her position on this issue, because I think she is being logically inconsistent.

    As with a couple of her other definitions, most notably atheism, I disagree with her definition of when life begins. From what I have read of her opinions, it appears that her definition of the beginning of the rights of the unborn would start at the age of viability outside the womb at the earliest.

    The cases of rape and incest can certainly be reasonably argued, and in those cases, the psychological scarring is coming from the perpetrator.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago
    Most biomedical researchers prefer undifferentiated tissue because they want to be able to differentiate the stem cells into the tissues they want to create. As I have stated previously, Yamanaka has made this point moot now by allowing one to make adult stem cells act as if they were embryonic through genetic reprogramming.

    Tissue from later stage pregnancies are preferred for some studies, but certainly not most.

    The transition from "embryonic" (read pluripotent) to "adult" stem cells (not pluripotent) happens much quicker than previously thought. A heart starts beating in the 3rd week of pregnancy.

    I do nothing that I or anyone else would consider ethically compromised in this respect.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 9 months ago
    I don't know Eud; My experiences (two different women in very close relationships) were considerably different. I don't imply here that the decisions were easily reached and didn't involve a lot of soul searching on their parts. But what I noticed in both cases was the fear of external criticism and noises from non-involved sources. And there was a need for a lot of comfort, support, and assurance after the event for a significant period of time, as well as not involving any others outside of just the two of us.

    And later, when the situation was right for both women, I had two fantastic sons.

    I was also raised by a widowed mother with five (5) sons and I directly experienced the turmoil, stress anxiety, internal and external conflicts of her life as well as the failures of three (3) of those boys.

    Had I convinced those two women to have those children even with their concerns at the time, I'm not sure that wouldn't have done more damage to them than supporting them in their wishes to control when it was right for them.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I never claimed "all", I claimed strong probability.

    If I am correct (which is neither provable nor disprovable with our current politicized science), women should be made aware of that probability so that they have all of the information possible to make their decision.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    same here. I am not "deep and permanently" psychologically scarred by that experience. I as however, deeply scarred by p[olitical slavery which drove me from my country of birth.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Thin territory" - as is any "scientific" opinion on a politically charged subject which is issued by our current crop of Lysenkoists.

    That said, I can only go by what I have experienced myself - and that is Objectivist.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 9 months ago
    I am an Objectivist. "As such, I believe that when a woman gets an abortion, she is doing deep and permanent psychological damage to herself. The existence of groups such as Silent No More lead me to suspect that my opinion is correct." thin territory, this. More proof needed
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  • Posted by H6163741 9 years, 9 months ago
    What you have to say is right on. Did you know there is a pretty extensive thread on this subject "? Thanks for the 3 month quote from AR. I couldn't understand how someone so brilliant could logically justify late term abortion.
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