Greece - liquidation proceedings?

Posted by davidmcnab 5 years, 5 months ago to Economics
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Now that Greece has defaulted on IMF repayments, I guess it's time to send in the bailiffs to confiscate some assets. Sadly ironic that the in the cradle of democracy, democracy itself was abused by a voting populace unwilling to cope with the most basic realities of finance and economics.


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  • Posted by jdmatthew 5 years, 4 months ago
    Maybe Greece could sell off a few of there islands. I would invest in "Galt's Island".
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    • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 4 months ago
      Now there's a good idea. Maybe even a couple of islands. Santorini is gorgeous, as are the Cyclades. Pretty much any of them, really. Just don't be one who minds a good climb, as most of them have some seriously steep cliffs!
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 5 years, 4 months ago
    "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." "Democracy can be defined as two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner."
    These two quotes reveal the why and the how of the fall of Greece. Socialism is a fraud and democracy can be dangerous. Both contain within them the seeds of their own destruction.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 5 years, 4 months ago
      Only when the electorate abdicates it's responsibilities. Which happened as early as 1814 in the Hartford Convention, which was similar in basis to what we have today. We were fighting a war most people sort of wanted, but didn't want to fund, and some were abhorrently against. The seeds seemed settled at that point, almost to succession.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      Most left-leaning states are much more sustainable than Greece. Then get it that if they want to keep receiving manna from heaven, they can't go turning producers' lives into hell. What makes Greece different is its extreme denial about the most basic realities of finance and economics.
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  • Posted by fosterj717 5 years, 4 months ago
    I believe that Greece by defaulting is actually in the driver's seat! As for the EU, confiscate what?! The Coliseum, the Parthenon, what?!

    My guess is that they are ready to play their trump cards I.e., consorting with Russia to put in a Russian pipeline and gain revenues that way. By dealing directly with Iran (when they are no longer a member of the EU they will not be bound by the sanctions and treaties).

    I read someplace that they could be back on sound economic ground within two years by withdrawing from the EU.

    The EU could not bail them out again because they soon would have to do the same with Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. It truly is a no win situation for the EU......For what its worth!
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    • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 4 months ago
      Uh, just a minor correction, but the Coliseum is Roman architecture located in Rome, Italy. The Parthenon and Zeus' Temple are located in Athens. Poseidon's Temple is located just outside Athens and the Temple of Apollo is located at Dephi - the site of the Oracle.

      And having lived in Greece for a couple of years, I can tell you that there's not much there but antiquity. Their only real exports are olive oil and Feta cheese (both very tasty, but hardly worth an invasion). They import all their beef, oil, cars, and money. They're very prone to the looter mindset as evidenced by the public worker riots demanding more pay, etc. And don't even ask about the antiquity in their government infrastructure.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 5 years, 4 months ago
        Flokati! I can definitely use another half-dozen flokati.

        Jan
        (Dog is sleeping on the one in my office right now. He makes a nice picture.)
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      • Posted by fosterj717 5 years, 4 months ago
        Thank you for pointing that out. I kept thinking that Greece owned most of Italy in pre-Roman days (many city states such as Naples and Syracuse, etc.).

        And, you are spot on correct about the rest of your post as well.
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        • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 4 months ago
          If you want to look at the empire of Alexander and the Macedonians, it was pretty impressive to be sure. It would have been interesting to see him (Alexander) as a general in WW I. Having examined some of his battles and tactics (he was brilliant), it would have been fascinating to see what strategies he devised.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 5 years, 4 months ago
    Here's an idea, the Greeks has to turn back the clock a thousand years or so; Togas, a large merchant sailing fleet and tear down modern building put everyone to work building with marble again.

    Or, have Macedonia take over Greece like they did a long time ago.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 4 months ago
    Greece appears to be populated with a quantity of self-absorbed, self-destructive, fools. I have no sympathy for them. The problem is that they may start a spiral that will pull apart the Euro and cause destruction to an extent in not only Europe, but here as well, since many funds have European and Greek investments. And, yes, we are heading downhill at an ever increasing speed in a perfect copy of Greece. Since we're bigger, it just takes longer.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 5 years, 4 months ago
    What Greece illustrates is the complete misunderstanding Europe has of why the United States functions as well as it does (at least until recently). The whole EU thing was a bass-ackwards delusion of how to create a United States of Europe. Despite increasing mobility, Europeans are very much attached to their homelands, ethnic origins, and religious culture. They lack the American mongrelization that has diluted the ties to home states, and grown a sense of nationwide community.

    When the productive northern European states enticed the poorer European nations to join the EU with generous handouts, they set a ticking time bomb. Without significant cultural change, the German work ethic couldn't be injected into the poorer states, and it was destined to fail. Greece is only the first domino.
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  • Posted by hattrup 5 years, 4 months ago
    Re: "cradle of democracy"
    Democracy (ie: majority rule) is capable of hugely immoral acts - one of the reasons I am sure we (US) have a Bill of Rights.

    For instance, gang rape is a democratic decision, as is voting to funnel other people's money to your interest of choice - Like yourself,
    or more subtly, your industry, ethnic group, or other "worthwhile" special interest group.

    It may be a good thing to see what a mess the cradle of democracy can make by seeing what happens when the "democratic process" runs out of other peoples money. But I am not really that optimistic to think the typical American voter (certainly not our politicians) will really learn anything from this.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 4 months ago
    A more likely approach one that worked for Ruben and Goldman 'Sachs. Get someone else to pay for it and profit personally in the process. If former Secretary of the Treasury Ruben is not working for Golden Sacks he's either retired on the taxpayers dollars or perhaps moved up to IMF?

    The Facts as I found them

    As I recall the IMF is The International Monetary Fund (IMF) is an organization of 188 countries, funded through a quota system and among other things is the worlds largest holder of gold 90.5 million troy ounces (2,814.1 metric tons), but is funded primarily by the US as part of that 18 trillion dollar debt. Total quotas: US$362 billion (as of 3/13/15) Additional pledged or committed resources: US $885 billion of which around 200 billion isreputedly still available

    Debt relief under the MDRI-I and MDRI-II Trusts were established in early 2006 and financed from the IMF’s own resources of SDR 1.5 billion in the Special Disbursement Account (SDA). The MDRI-I Trust provided debt relief to countries (both HIPCs and non-HIPCs) with per capita incomes at, or below $380 a year (on the basis of 2004 gross national income). The MDRI-II Trust provided debt relief to HIPCs with per capita incomes above $380 a year, with financing from bilateral resources of SDR 1.12 billion transferred from the PRGT.

    The Post-Catastrophe Debt Relief (PCDR) Trust was established in June 2010 to provide post-catastrophe debt relief. The Trust was initially financed by SDR 280 million (equivalent to around $384 million) of the IMF’s own resources. In 2015, the IMF expanded the PCDR Trust, transforming it into the Catastrophe Containment and Relief (CCR) Trust, to enable it to provide exceptional debt reli

    Statement by the IMF on Greece
    Press Release No.15/310
    June 30, 2015
    Mr. Gerry Rice, Director of Communications at the International Monetary Fund (IMF), made the following statement today regarding Greece’s financial obligations to the IMF due today:
    “I confirm that the SDR 1.2 billion repayment (about EUR 1.5 billion) due by Greece to the IMF today has not been received. We have informed our Executive Board that Greece is now in arrears and can only receive IMF financing once the arrears are cleared.
    “I can also confirm that the IMF received a request today from the Greek authorities for an extension of Greece’s repayment obligation that fell due today, which will go to the IMF’s Executive Board in due course.”

    http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts...

    No Bailiffs Available Bailouts are in Room 51
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  • Posted by VetteGuy 5 years, 4 months ago
    As Robert Heinlein pointed out, (To Sail Beyond the Sunset) one problem with democracy is that people figure out they can vote themselves "bread and circuses". After that, it's only a matter of time before the decline and fall.

    The first time I read that, I thought "oh come on, people are smarter than THAT". Now as I look around, I see his point. There are some people who can look past the immediate gratification, (those of us here in the Gulch, for instance). But a large and seemingly increasing majority of people don't seem to be able to think past "Ooh! I can get bread and circuses!".

    I'm not anti-democracy, but how do we prevent the "bread and circus" mentality from taking over? One way I thought of (although I realize it would never pass) is to limit voting to property owners (who have a tangible stake in the country/state/city they live in) and/or taxpayers (who earn the money that's being spent).
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