America's "Fatal Flaw"

Posted by Robbie53024 12 years, 8 months ago to Government
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I've always thought that the "fatal flaw" of the US is that those who contribute nothing to society have an equal voice in how we are governed. This wasn't always the case, of course. During the very early days of the nation only land-owners could vote. And the states maintained their role as part of a republic via appointment of senators by the state legislature.
I've often thought that the next constitutional amendment needs to be to set up an "earned franchise," a la Heinlein's Stormship Troopers novel. 2 yrs service would seem reasonable.
One only values those things that they have earned.


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  • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 8 months ago
    In the Falkenberg's Legion series of books, the last two, "Go Tell the Spartans" and "Prince of Sparta" are about a society, a dual-monarchy, based upon Hellenistic principles. Anyone could become a citizen, but everyone had to pass the same test to do so. And pretty much all you got out of it was the ability to vote.

    I liked the world of Starship Troopers, but I'd die to protect the Spartan Dual Monarchy... It's my kind of society.

    "General Owensford," Lysander said. "I think you are laboring under a misconception."

    "Highness?"

    Lysander stared at the screen. Rank after rank of Marines swung by the pickup. The tempo of the song changed, to a flurry of drums and horns.

    "You seem to think we're going to abandon you," Lysander said.
    "It's the sensible thing to do," Owensford said.
    "No, by God," Alexander said. "Do you think that little of us, Peter Owensford? What have we done that you think that?"

    "Sire—" For some reason Peter Owensford couldn't talk.

    King David raised his head from his hands. "We here in this room have no choice," he said. "But — you all know what we have here. The Life Guards, some training units, and little else. All the first line Brotherhood units are up north. There's nothing left but the second-line Militia units. Old men, and boys and women. Enough to put down riots or fight terrorists, but can we ask them to fight that?" He pointed at the screen. "General Owensford, the Freedman Life Guards are at your disposal, and me with them, but I can't order the militia to face Line marines."

    "There's no need to order them," Lysander said. He turned to the Brotherhood representatives. "Citizens and Brothers. The Kings will lead their guards in defense of the allies of Sparta. Will the Brotherhoods join us?"

    "Yes, Highness." Allan Hyson, the banker, looked scared, but his voice was firm. "How could we not?"

    - Prince of Sparta

    http://www.amazon.com/Falkenbergs-Legion...
    http://www.amazon.com/Prince-Mercenaries...
    http://www.amazon.com/Tell-Spartans-CoDo...
    http://www.amazon.com/Prince-Sparta-CoDo...

    Kindle editions are MUCH cheaper.

    No series of books ever, EVER had as evil and sinister a villain as did this series.

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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 12 years, 8 months ago
    Now I'll have to add that book to my list. I can't debate on what I haven't read.
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    • Posted by 12 years, 8 months ago
      If you really want to blow your mind on religion then pick up Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land.
      And for raw libertarian ideas, try The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.
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      • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 12 years, 8 months ago
        OK. I wonder how long my Amazon list can get?
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        • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 8 months ago
          Do NOT get Stranger in a Strange Land unless you're horny and have a dose of LSD handy.

          It was one of his *worst* works, representing the time when he decided to give voice to some dark twisted part of his imagination he'd quite properly kept chained in a basement previously.

          And it probably represents some of his worst "science" as well.
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          • Posted by John_Emerson 12 years, 7 months ago
            The "worst" of Heinlein is still probably better than the best of a lot of other science-fiction writers. And the science in "Stranger" was so bad that there's no patent on the water bed because Heinlein invented it and placed it in the public domain when "Stranger" was published.
            The opening sentence of the book hooked me immediately: "Once upon a time there was a Martian - named Valentine Michael Smith."
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            • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 7 months ago
              Actually he didn't actively place it in the public domain. And the idea for the waterbed occurred to him when he was in the hospital, not when he was writing that tripe.
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              • Posted by John_Emerson 12 years, 7 months ago
                Perhaps it was unintentional, but he placed it in the public domain by publishing before applying for a patent.
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                • Posted by 12 years, 7 months ago
                  What does it matter now? Both he and Ginny are gone, and no children. Plus, they made plenty from the books.
                  Personally, I'd like to see some more Heinlein movies made. Rather partial to Stranger, but think the various space operas would be fun, and how about "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"? Wouldn't that be a good complement to an AS marathon?
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  • Posted by $ johnrobert2 12 years, 8 months ago
    That should be two years satisfactory service, which can be extended as needed. The restriction also applied to holding public office, certain public careers such as law enforcement or emergency response. The parameters for criminal punishment were also radically changed from what we have today. And how many are aware of the distinction LtCol DuBois makes in juvenile criminals and adult delinquents? (See, I have read the book. More than once.)
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    • Posted by 12 years, 8 months ago
      Glad to hear it. So much lost in the movie - but a good flick, nonetheless (not to mention the shower scene ;} )
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 8 months ago
        O.O

        Starshit Troupers was one of the worst travesties ever made. The ONLY movie I ever walked out on (during the scene where the blond-haired blue-eyed Filipino protagonist was having a communal shower with a dead, apparently transgendered fellow Filipino.)

        The movie was directed by Paul Verhoven, Eurotrash who absolutely HATED the military. There were science fiction authors years later who were still disturbed by Mrs Heinlein's betrayal of her husband's defining work. Some of whom won't even consider a movie being made of their work because of that horror. If you ever see a man on the street suddenly haul off and hit some male-looking thing hard enough to separate the head from the body and send it flying through the nearest car windshield... you'll know I met the bastard Verhoven.
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      • Posted by $ johnrobert2 12 years, 8 months ago
        Thought the movie was such a bag of garbage. Totally lost the entire thrust of the book.
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        • Posted by 12 years, 8 months ago
          As I think Heinlein himself said: It's one where you connect the gonads in series with the cerebellum and just enjoy (or maybe that was Asimov, don't remember anymore).
          Methinks you want it to replicate the book perfectly. Hard to do with a movie (same goes for AS - lots left out, but still a good movie). Heck, AS the movie hasn't even stayed literal to the book - to the betterment in my opinion. Like the hobo turned into a company employee. Some other things, like the thoughts of all the train riders as it enters the tunnel, are losses that would have added to the film, but were challenging to include.
          Anyway, to each his own.
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          • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 8 months ago
            Yes, the movie had to absolutely match the book... particularly the ideas in the book.
            His scientist friend who's killed on Pluto is turned into a sadistic Nazi doctor?
            Rue McClannehan as his blind OCS instructor?
            Sexually integrated military?
            Sgt Zim transformed from a professional soldier into a sadist?

            Sorry, they didn't even get the *feel* of the book right, let alone any of the ideas.
            And the ideas in Starship Troopers were society-changing if they could have been gotten into the muddled modern minds of the past two generations.
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