My Doctor Quit

Posted by iroseland 10 years, 3 months ago to Culture
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I am a type1 Diabetic.. So, it is pretty important for me to have a reasonably good relationship with my Endo. For the last 18 months I have been pretty much running on auto pilot while taking part in a fairly big drug study for Lilly. I figured there would be no problem as my endo was one of the doctors on the study, the facility is even an extension of the clinic I go to.. Its even just downstairs. But, last fall I had sort of noticed that my usual endo was not really around and I was only ever seeing the other guy. Again, I was running on autopilot so I didn't really think too much about it. Now, as part of the study, I was not on the test insulin this time ( I was a control ) but, Lilly provided 100% of everything. Every 3 months I would haul home a crate of insulin pens, tips, test strips, glucose tabs, sharps containers.. Pretty much any supply I could imagine needing, and some that I didnt.. Yesterday, the study ended so I knew I would be needing to update my actual scripts and stop at the pharmacy. This is when I discovered a few things. First, apparently last fall my regular Endo suddenly retired. Apparently, it was a very sudden retirement.. Odd since he is probably in his mid 50's and _very_ damm good at his job.. While I had been thinking that the health care act was causing retirements, I had never actually thought that it would hit me so fast. As it turns out this is a huge problem now since< apparently it is against the law out here to write an insulin script if the doctor has not actually seen me in the last 12 months. So, now I need a new endo and to top it off the clock is ticking as my emergency supply drains away.. The good news for me is that I have pretty stellar, and mostly unused insurance.. So, I will do my part to help make things more of a mess by using an urgent care to get new scripts. Yes, this might mean that someone with a more immediate issue gets to wait a bit longer.. But at the same time I will only last about 40 hours after the last of the emergency supply runs out. So, I would describe this as a fairly urgent problem.. Of course this whole mess got me thinking back to the days when Insulin was technically an OTC med. In fact for most of my life a bottle on insulin was about 25 bucks and I did not need a script to buy it. The pharmacy folks would occasionally give me crap for not seeing an Endo.. But back in my 20's I did not have insurance as it was way outside of my price range, and I was already pretty good at being a type 1. That all changed with the latest generation in insulins. The FDA has classified them as being too dangerous to be OTC and as it turns out there is a reason. Apparently its the Doctors that don't want us to be able to just go out and buy insulin. They prefer to force us into making an office visit every 6 months so we can see them for about 90 seconds and then get our script updates phoned in by the assistant.

So, my to big lessons on this are that Dr's are in fact going galt.. Also, they were busy cutting their own throats..



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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 3 months ago
    I'm a type 2 diabetic. I also have lots of pain issues. (neuropathy, stenosis, etc.) One of the meds I use is a prescription drug called Tramadol. I take 6 a day. It doesn't eliminate the pain, but it brings it within bearable levels. Compared to opiates and the like it's quite mild, but it does have a withdrawal component. It take 540 pills over a 90 day period. According to the new controlled substance regs, I will now be allowed only 90 pills over a 90 day period. I will eithr face a future filled with pain, or claim a more severe problem than I actually have. In addition, the orthopedic surgeon that I have used in the past, has dropped out. His partners have gone strictly cash and carry. Oh well, I'm a very old guy. I won't have to put up with this nonsense too much longer.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
      I have some good news on that one. There are a new class of neuropathy drugs in human trials now. I took part in the cebix study of a c-peptide replacement, for type ones and the nerves in my left big toe grew back. Ok, it seemed like all at once in the middle of the night. But the pain only lasted a little while and the nerve conduction tests proved the regeneration. I became a type 1 back in the days when they said that was a one way trip.
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    • Posted by SolitudeIsBliss 10 years, 3 months ago
      My husband also has neuropathy/radiculopathy, stenosis and its becoming more and more difficult to get the meds he needs to get the pain under some limited control.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
        I'm guessing under O'care the authorized care regime for such circumstances is going to be something along the lines of: "Hit thumb of non-dominant hand with sledgehammer. Subsequent pain will relieve other source of pain. Repeat as necessary."
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  • Posted by 10 years, 3 months ago
    update: The good news is that I am pretty resourceful.. I managed to get into the urgent care clinic early on Saturday and got my scripts updated and filled... In the meantime I am pretty annoyed with the Endo's for pulling an Orren Boyle on this one..

    http://www.diabetesmine.com/2012/06/fda-...


    As for these stories.. Yes, I expect it.. While the Endo's association might have pulled an Orren Boyle there are plenty of good Doctors out there that would prefer to be good Doctors instead of O'care stool pigeons or insurance accountants...

    That reminds me, my previous Endo.. He was running his own private clinic. One doctor a Nurse/Diabetes Educator a lab person, and 4 billing specialists. He is also retired now..
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  • Posted by bassboat 10 years, 3 months ago
    As for docs spending all of their time filling out forms there is another example that I would like to share. When I was a kid I lived in a city that had a population of 65,000. They ran the school system with a superintendent, a secretary and part time music and art teachers. When we graduated from high school we had a high class average, one that still has not been beaten academically. Today the city has 35,000 and it runs the school system with a superintendent, several secretaries and 110-120 other employees, ex teachers who were bumped up to significantly higher salaries. I asked my wife what in the world they did there all day. Her reply, they are filling out government forms that are required in order to get government funds from DC. This is repeated 1,000's of times across America. How can we as a people be so stupid?
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  • Posted by $ jlc 10 years, 3 months ago
    The prior thread that I read this morning was titled, "How hard do you work?" and extolled people for putting in the minimum effort required to keep themselves afloat. Now I pop onto this thread and see doctors lambasted for not working more, longer, harder.

    I think that I will reply to both threads here.

    I like money. I would like to have more money. I would like to not have to scrimp and scrape to make ends meet. But money is not the reason that I work, and work hard. There is more allure in the challenge of making the world a different place, of changing things, than there is in money. In spite of the lampreys attached to and feeding off of my company, I will continue to try to make it grow and flourish - because we have already changed healthcare in some small ways, and are capable of doing more. That is why it is worthwhile for me to work hard...and why it is worthwhile for doctors to continue in their practices. The people they care for are real.

    Yes, trying to provide good medicine or trying to do something better than anyone else can do it with the current regulatory restrictions is like trying to swim the English channel with an anvil tied to your ankle. Yes, we could all do better jobs without this additional burden. But in the meantime, there are people all over the world receiving better healthcare because of my efforts. There are friends and neighbors receiving essential health care because doctors are still working, because doctors have not given up - yet.

    If I knew a better country to go to where we could work more effectively, I would be going head-to-head with the president and co-founder of my company over moving there. But there is no such country; I peruse the net regularly to check on this datum. The US is still the best place to be.

    Sucks.

    Jan
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    • Posted by editedforbias 10 years, 3 months ago
      Jan

      I feel for your situation. But everyone has a different breaking point. For many many doctors that have put up with becoming paper pushers and accountants for insurance, becoming a robot and mouthpiece of government health distribution is a step too far.

      The government is too big and has gone too far. I am hopeful that most great doctors understand this and are making the point clear. I also hope that under a freer system, many will return. See off shore hospital ships below.
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    • Posted by editedforbias 10 years, 3 months ago
      Jan,

      You are not quite there. If you can fight to swim with an anvil on you, all you do is ask them to add more weight. These looters will only stop when the economy collapses. They rely on the best among us to find a way. As long as we keep finding a way to survive, we only feed their power and need for more.

      Once you learn that our constant ability to navigate and find a way is the source of their power, you understand why so many want to stop feeding the machine.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 10 years, 3 months ago
        Editedforbias -

        One of the distinctions we have to make as practical futurists is the one between a technological solution to a problem and a social solution. (Can you tell I am a geek?) Malthus thought that the geometric expansion of population would outpace the arithmatic expansion of food. This did not happen, for two reasons (a) he had no evidence for his theory...it was just a thought problem, (b) technology provided the solution to both points of his hypothesis. Even given that his thought problem would have proven correct in a world of level technology, that is not our world - the agricultural revolution and the existence of birth control has stood his theory on its metaphorical head.

        This can happen in other venues as well. What happens when a significant portion of healthcare is taken out of the hands of the healthcare industry and put into the hands of the casual user? What happens when the working class is almost entirely robotic and there is affluence without need or possibility of work for 90%+ of the population?

        It is possible that the solution to social and political problems is to make them irrelevant. My company is a small company, but we are still swimming.

        Jan
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        • Posted by editedforbias 10 years, 3 months ago
          You are correct on the technical versus social. I used to think one of the problems with the social is that it ignores the technical or industrious side of growth. I am rethinking that. I now believe that they do not ignore it, they NEED it. They FEED on it. They do not understand it or value it, other then to feed their programs. So the only way to starve the beast is to stop advancing, to contract, to walk away. As long as we find technical solutions to their social engineering, they will have the ability to reengineer. Their really may be no way to stop them then to stop the machine and let them starve.
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  • Posted by joverway 10 years, 3 months ago
    As a retired hospital pharmacist specialist who worked closely with many physicians, I have 3 of the best throw in the towel due to governmental interference with their practice. One became frustrated with the need to justify his so much of his medical expertise to Medicare, Medicaid, insurance companies, auditors, etc. that he closed his practice and signed up as a civilian doc. in a military outpatient clinic where his most of his paperwork is done by others and he can go home after putting in an 8 hour shift.
    Another closed his practice to work in a research clinic where his new position isolates him from the Feds (for now).

    My current family practitioner is going to retire early (he is in mid-50s) and close his office this year because he has had to hire an extra employee to transcribe his "paper charting" to conform to the electronic medical record requirements. This added burden was his personal "last straw".

    These men and other physicians I know are knowledgeable thinkers, diagnosticians and practitioners of the art and science of Medicine. They are most reluctant to become slaves of protocols and other forms of "cookie cutter medicine" that politicians and bureaucrats are so eager to impose on then.

    Back in the 60s when Medicare was being debated AR wrote an article entitled "The Forgotten Man in Medicine". As we look at the gutting of sound medical practice today we can see that she could not have been more prophetic.
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    • Posted by editedforbias 10 years, 3 months ago
      Absolutely dead on. Doctors are some of the most independent thinkers and highly valued workers in society. I actually am hoping that they not only stop working, but start saying why. First they turned doctors into accountants and now they are turning them into robots or slaves.

      I knew a Doctor that gave up and now runs two McDonald's. Irony not withstanding.
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    • Posted by matchpoint2009 10 years, 3 months ago
      Agree. The doctors I know are being buried in a mountain of paperwork, to jump through the hoops of insurance (including Medicaid and Medicare) requirements in order to get paid. Electronic Medical Records are a nightmare, requiring hours of time. Practices are being bought by hospitals, as doctors abandon private practices they can no long afford. They have become paid laborers, with a quota. They are tired and beaten down. Many are seeking an alternative career, or are retiring.

      I RARELY hear any of them speak of the joy of practicing medicine anymore. .

      The comment I am responding to is spot on.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
      Your doctor that joined a military outpatient clinic seems to be a dedicated doctor and his patients should feel privileged to have him. I've seen too many others - mostly when they start in such an environment - who basically look at it as if they were a union represented government worker. Do as little as possible to fill out the time. Find ways to force overtime so that you can take home more money. Perform shoddy service since the "customer" has no real recourse anyway. This is how the entire medical system is going to evolve should single payer ever be fully enacted.
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  • Posted by Jack_in_TN 10 years, 3 months ago
    My MD quit this year. Changed from MD to Anglican Priest. At an age where he just didn't want to put up with the nanny state even though he did enjoy being an MD and the feeling of helping others. -- having to break a new Dr in.
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  • Posted by UncommonSense 10 years, 3 months ago
    You have my deepest sympathies. Damn. I knew this was going to happen, called it back in '09 to one of my colleagues.

    Finding a new doc whom you can trust is a tough thing to do. Best of luck & hope you don't have to spend a lot of time either.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 1 month ago
    iroseland, blarman, and others with diabetes -

    I have been moving into biomaterials and tissue engineering the last couple of years. I know there are people out there working on an artificial pancreas. Would you like me to find out more on this for you?

    If you can help find me adequate non-mooching and non-looting sponsorship, I would be happy to move my tissue scaffolding work toward pancreatic tissue engineering. Are there any Midas Mulligans in the Gulch with severe diabetes problems? Maybe I can help.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 3 months ago
    Having a daughter with Type I for 11+ years now, I can empathize with your position. I would explain to those who are unfamiliar with the condition, Type I Diabetes is also known as Juvenile Diabetes or Insulin-Dependent Diabetes. It is a sudden, catastrophic failure of the pancreas to produce insulin, normally happens before a person turns 25, and has nothing to do with diet (Type II Diabetes) or genetics (so far as they have been able to determine). Type I Diabetics require insulin to allow sugar in the bloodstream to pass into the cells for metabolism. Without it, the cells literally starve despite the food passing right outside. A Type I can usually go a couple of weeks before the degenerative effects become life-threatening, but even long-term damage can occur if treatment is prolonged. In other words, this is a critical issue that should and is treated as a legitimate emergency.

    Regarding insulin, there are a few types of insulin that one can get without a prescription, but the newer brands (the ones that work better) are almost all prescription-only - thus the quandary posed by iroseland. And just as clarification, insulin is not interchangeable. It takes several weeks to several months to adjust to a new type of insulin, during which one's bloodsugar is in flux. Extremely low blood sugar (<80) can lead to blackouts and even death, while extremely high blood sugar (>400) leads to long-term problems such as kidney failure, glaucoma, and more, so staying on one's insulin regime is very important for both short-term and long-term health.

    It is very frustrating that it takes so long for insulin to be approved for over-the-counter sales. Some part is the pharmaceutical company trying to recoup research and development costs - which I don't really object to. Another part is just FDA bureaucratic red tape, which is frustrating.

    What is of more concern to me in this case was the hand-off of patient care, which was by this account lackadaisical. I would have expected a letter of retirement by the doctor or at very least a letter of explanation from the new doctor as well as a follow-up visit or call for all transitioning patients. I can see many opportunities for the market to offer impetus that are currently frustrated by government regulations, etc.
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  • Posted by squareone 10 years, 3 months ago
    At the age of 79 I am a "money cow" for doctors, hospitals, care facilities, etc. I find that I am being encouraged by doctors, their PAs and others to submit to various "preventative" procedures. The copayment bills keep coming in.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
      With all due respect, you are not the "cow", you are the "teat". You are the mechanism for the payments, but the actual production is coming from all the rest of us (unless you are independently wealthy and pay all you medical bills from your own funds - a rare occurrence in this day and age).
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 10 years, 3 months ago
    The Obamacare is only for the healthy and those who can afford it. My wife is an RN and her Doctor she works for has to limit her hours of operation due to the lower Medicare reimbursement. Her Doctor does Pain Management on mostly elderly patients. The gov't has now limited the number of procedures the Doctor can do on a yearly basis per patient. So, no matter how much pain the elderly patients are in there is nothing the Doctor can do for them until the following year. To extrapolate this there will be be huge numbers of patients going to the hospital where they may or may not be treated. From my pov we will have a silent gov't euthanasia program where patients will linger at home or else where to die from extreme pain or to where they would want to take their own lives. I don't know anything about the regulations concerning Nursing Homes. They could become Death Facilities and could end up euthanizing patients due to the lack of medicare or other funding.
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  • Posted by SolitudeIsBliss 10 years, 3 months ago
    My husband is being treated for bladder cancer. We found a great Urologist and we're both so pleased with him and the care my husband is receiving. The lemmings in this area overwhelmingly elected and re-elected Obama. Well, a few days ago it was announced that a great many Doctors are not included in the ACA (not by their choice, even the Drs are upset). I don't feel sorry for either the Drs or the people affected. They're reaping what they've sown. It's just a shame so many others are getting caught up in the mess.
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  • Posted by barwick11 10 years, 3 months ago
    The fact that you now need to see a doctor to get access to something you SHOULD reasonably be able to get access to... THAT is a major reason health care costs what it does, and why medicine and other things cost what they do. All because Government "says so"
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  • Posted by matchpoint2009 10 years, 3 months ago
    I can't help but point out that doctors have absolutely NO CONTROL over what medications are over-the-counter, and which are not. Also, we docs are busily "cutting our own throats", while watching our colleagues fleeing the ever-deteriorating medical system in droves, and wondering how much longer we'll last. So if you're upset about how things are going, why not look to big pharma and big government, if you'd like a scapegoat for your problems.

    But otherwise, we're happy to take responsibility for all the other problems in the world.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
      Individual doctors do not, but the AMA has a big influence (yes, I know that they represent a small minority of the population of doctors, yet they exert tremendous influence).
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    • Posted by RonC 10 years, 3 months ago
      The real problems with our health care system is that over the years it has become removed from the normal customer/vendor relationship. Human beings respond to incentives. When an insurance company creates an arrangement where a human being can get $150,000 worth of open heart surgery and pay only a $2500 out of pocket, they have set the stage for a lot of open heart surgeries. Then, when a micro managing government steps in and says, "we're spending too much on open heart surgery" and decides the best way to curb that spending is to limit compensation to Doctors; then we have an over bought situation that suddenly was made worse. Cutting the Doctors pay doesn't reduce the volume of surgery patients, it just ticks of the Doctors. Eventually that creates scarcity and the price of open heart surgeries goes up. The government really focuses on the problem now, and adds a "death panel" to decide which patients will have a long and productive enough life to make sense of the decision to operate. Now, we have ticked off, under paid Doctors, working on only the most productive heart patients, while the rest are sent home, with medication to ease their pain. This is a dead end street, pardon the pun.

      If our benevolent government wanted to impact health care costs and at the same time cure a lot of people, it seems to me they would fund medical schools all over the country and open the flood gates to create many, many more Doctors. You see, in Columbus Ohio there are barber shops all over the place. and you can get a hair cut at Saturday's for $9.95. Grooming a toy poodle is different, Groomers are hard to find, good groomers even more so..grooming a toy poodle is at least a $50 deal. The analogy is this. If doctors, hospitals and clinics were like barbers and barbershops, the cost of medical care would go way down. IMHO we have a market distortion caused by insurance companies and made worse by government intervention. We should someday have an interest in insuring catastophes, and getting the government and insurance companies out of the Doctor's office.
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      • Posted by matchpoint2009 10 years, 3 months ago
        Yes, if you didn't come out of medical school and residency, $400k in debt at the age of 32, you wouldn't need to charge so much for an operation. How many people want to be in this position? You are so far in the hole, you can't even see daylight when you start practice. And you are villainized for trying to get out of debt, for what it cost you to be able to save people's lives. Open it up!!
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
          Absolutely. And why is it so expensive? The "easy money" of government backed loans. Any system where there is a ready supply of money is going to see costs increase. This is just another instance where economically incompetent people (both R's and D's) have caused imbalance in a system to the detriment of those for whom they espouse to be trying to help.
          And I'm so frustrated with my neighbors who continue to push for more government money - Pell Grants, scholarships, low interest loans, etc. in order to pay for college. If these fools would just open their eyes they'd see that these are the things that are causing the costs to rise in the first place. That, and the blatant redistribution of wealth system that is called "scholarships."
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  • Posted by $ ernieg 10 years, 3 months ago
    It would be nice if you could predict 'going galt' by the people ahead of time, but that would mean the exposure of those people to their enemies.
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  • Posted by $ Your_Name_Goes_Here 10 years, 3 months ago
    I expect that many of these retiring doctors may reappear at private "cash only" practices... either onshore or offshore.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
      Here's a business idea that I offer out to the Gulch - "Resort" hotels. Both the Dr. and the patient travel to some hospitable country where there is a fully outfit hospital. The procedure and recovery would take place their but unlike the current version, you take your own Dr/Surgeon and other medical staff along.
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 10 years, 3 months ago
        There is a financial group out of Singapore that is looking into establishing a fleet of medical "cruise ships" that would visit in nearby international waters to offer operations and procedures without the bureaucratic encumbrance and expense of socialized medicine. So far, the profitability of such a venture is looking good.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
          If you find out that they are offering stock or other means of participating in an ownership position, then please pass it along. I'm guessing that is going to be a booming business in the next decade should we not be able to abolish O'care.
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  • Posted by $ minniepuck 10 years, 3 months ago
    I'm very sorry to hear that. I hope you are able to find a new doctor that will help you. lasting only forty hours after your last bit of supply sounds like a big emergency to me. will it be difficult to find a new doctor?

    I can relate to what you say about seeing a doctor for 90 seconds just to get a script. during one of my visits, I asked my ex-GP a question about headaches and she actually said, "my alloted time with you has run out. you'll have to make another appointment." I asked her to repeat herself to make sure I understood her...she said the purpose of that particular visit was just to check on my levels, not bring up a new issue. I was very angry. I asked for my file and said I'd be leaving the practice. I went home and did my research. I now see a doctor that is part of a private practice. it was work to find a good doctor around here, but I'm glad I have one now. it is getting increasingly difficult to find doctors that are good, treat causes instead of symptoms, and treat you like a human being with worth. I am not looking forward to what's in store in the medical community in the upcoming decade. I don't blame doctors for going galt--not at all.

    let us know how everything works out, rose. I wish you the best.
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    • Posted by matchpoint2009 10 years, 3 months ago
      Doctors have to see seven patients an hour. They have to complete electronic medical records which take at least seven minutes each. They can see one patient for one problem, and they still don't get home in time to see their families before they go to bed. If you want more than one thing taken care of, under the new medical INSURANCE model, then make another appointment. Sorry, that's how it is.
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    • Posted by airfredd22 10 years, 3 months ago
      Re: minniepuck,
      I too have run into situations similar to your experience. I accompany my sister (75) and a family friend (86) to their doctor and was exposed to their lack of professionalism. I advised them to retain a new doctor that didn't have that sort of attitude. My advice to anyone experiencing these types of situations is to immediately leave that practice and expose those doctors for the negligent and unprofessional conduct.

      Sadly, doctors are no different than many other people in having lost all understanding of work ethics and an understanding of their professional responsibilities.

      Fred Speckmann
      commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
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      • Posted by matchpoint2009 10 years, 3 months ago
        It is not a lack of professionalism, it is the government/insurance controlled system. But feel free to blame the doctor. Everyone does.
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        • Posted by editedforbias 10 years, 3 months ago
          Blaming doctors like the rest of us, WE let the looters do this to us. They sponge off of our ability to produce. Organizations built to represent us (AMA in this case) become tools for lobbying and compromise not for patient care.

          A compromise between right and wrong, is always evil.
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          • Posted by matchpoint2009 10 years, 3 months ago
            OMG!! A voice of reason in a sea of misplaced blame! Whoever you are, YOU get it. The doctors have quietly been trying to comply with each new regulation, that impairs their ability to provide good patient care. And then are scape-goated by everyone, including the people that are tightening the screws on them. I wonder if anyone on this forum ever read the book "Atlas Shrugged"? The others don't seem to "get it".
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  • -1
    Posted by matchpoint2009 10 years, 3 months ago
    You people are ALL CLUELESS about how the system works. But everyone is entitle to an opinion, even if they don't have any idea what they are talking about. And NONE of you do. Welcome to Obamacare, and the new medicine. But PLEASE please please blame the doctors for all of this, because it only makes sense, right? And you guys are on this website? Clueless.
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    • Posted by $ Your_Name_Goes_Here 10 years, 3 months ago
      He's right tho... read the Hippocratic oath. Care of the patient comes first, period. I don't believe it mentions anything about their insurance status. ;-) Government screwed things up by getting into the insurance business to begin with. Like a cancer, Government has put more and more people into a "single payer" system (Medicaid) which does not fully pay for the services the customer obtains. We all know what that means - the rest of us get to pay for it in the form of higher medical costs, since there's no such thing as a free lunch.

      Is it the doctors' fault? I personally don't think so. They are unfortunately caught in the pinch, and I don't blame the ones who are saying "screw it"...
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    • Posted by Rozar 10 years, 3 months ago
      The doctors working with the government is the reason health care is so expensive. If there were fewer regulations it would be cheaper, and the doctors are the ones who lobbied for regulations on what is required to be a doctor.

      I'd go more in depth but I haven't seen you post anything else here and as far as I know you just walked in the room called everyone crazy and walked out.
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