unless they're involved with Dr. Kermit Gosnell. . live birth,

take 'em to another room, let 'em die. -- j

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A person of faith cannot be an Objectivist. Faith is the opposite of rationality which is a foundation of the philosophy. That doesn't mean, though, that a person can't agree with most of what the philosophy propounds.

True John, my own personal experience is that Christians "tend" to be gullible, IF, they do not understand the concept of "Metaphor" or the use of creative methods of expression to expand the awareness of the people with whom they are communicating. By the way, have you watched ANY of the videos posted in this thread?! If not, then WHY are you "complaining"?!

Thank You. . I'll try to be clearer, next time!!! -- j

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that's an interesting question, Esceptico. . if you consider that

certain murders were committed by some "god," it might indicate

that you are entertaining a view of supernatural power. -- j

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Allosaur: Are those snapping teeth all yours?

I can't conceive of forcing Objectivism on another. It's very premises eschew that. I don't want to get away with anything. If a person is rational and has an open mind, then they will listen and appreciate. If not, then why bother?

I think of myself, like Rand, as the center of my little world, and I attempt

to respect others thoroughly. . if you want to ask us to view and respond

to attacks on Christianity as a part of our analysis of reality,

you may find that we would rather listen to Horowitz play Chopin. -- j

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I don't hink I presented an argument. Certainly not one with venom. All I have done is point out chapter and verse where the characters portrayed in the Bible have done horrible things. The venom, if there is any, comes from them. Did I make a misquote? If yes, I would like to correct it.

well said, Herb;;; Thank You!!! -- j

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I would imagine that any text describing old attempts at

civilization would include "wonderful" things like that -- we keep

hearing awful things about the Koran which run somewhat

parallel. . we can do better, now, don't you think??? -- j

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BB, there are some big differences between libertarianism

and objectivism, the members here will assert. . I bet that would

be another good thread!!! -- j

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yessir -- groupthink scares me. -- j

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I see 2 major subjects in your response. . 1 the cave-man view

that survival of the fittest is the essence of reality -- the cold view --

is less enlightened, in my estimation, than the more recent view

which asserts that we are brothers and sisters as well as

individuals, and should honor one another without

initiation of force or coercion. . that is the context of my "love-oriented view" comment.

number 2 is a subject which I explored with a PhD shrink extensively,

years ago::: emotions are, in her view, sources of information about

the individual ... rather than, in my view, expressions of

that individual's mind. . I feel love intentionally, as an expression

of my self. . it is real when I think it or act on it. . rationally, I Do Hope!!! -- j

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I've already read it...clearly, more times than you have. I'm merely pointing out the errors in your arguments. I also pointed out that almost all are from the pre Christian era.

You see, you have a right to your opinion...I'd certainly never try to deny that. All I'm asking is that you make it an informed opinion rather than one filled with venom.

Thank You, Zen, for repeating your clear view

of our site here.

no proselytizing, no preaching, just explaining

and understanding to the max, we hope!!! -- j

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I meant the "too hard pile" to refer to questions which nag at

many people -- like "how did the universe come to be?" and

"what happened to make people so different from other animals?" -- j

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and yet, is it not true that "not all" of the ignorant and religious

want to "require people to live at the wants of another?"

I have known several in each category who are very fine people indeed!!! -- j

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JD, would you be willing to say more about what you personally consider a "True Christian" to be and how is it any different from a "non-True Christian"? Because, it appears that you are being dishonest and I just want to clarify the difference between a Christian and a True Christian. Thanks.

Very true. Which why the principle of non-initiation of force is so critical among people. If they want to believe the moon is made of green cheese, fine...so long as they don't get to steal my stuff or beat me up.

I never said your god is a badass. I said I did not believe he/she/it exists. BTW, since humans have believed in thousands of gods, maybe to be clear you should identify your god by name. All the terrible things I refer to regarding the Abrahamic god Yahweh ( aka Jehovah) are not my making it up. It comes from the Bible. I am merely the messenger. I gave you the citations, go read all those "badass" things for yourself.

When I say 'capitalism,' I mean a pure, uncontrolled, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism—with a separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.

— Ayn Rand , "The Objectivist Ethics" in The Virtue of Selfishness

Clearly Ayn Rand would not ban Christianity or any other religion, she simply believed government should not interfere in such matters and that the church should not interfere with the government.

I'm glad, Jan, that the vast majority of those who gather here

honor one another's choices. . Thank You for your gentleness!!! -- j

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Actually, to be a Christian is to admit that you are as flawed as everyone,therefore a True Christian can not be judgemental.

Regarding not enough faith to be an atheist. In doing so, I believe you claim religion is a matter of faith, which it is. I don’t have any faith, I don’t respect faith, I don’t believe in faith, and I would be very foolish if, after a person has announced he holds his belief by faith, if were to then try to argue with him because the only means I have are reason, empirical demonstration, rules of evidence, and so forth. None of which are even relevant to the grounds of his belief. So I don’t argue. I find most people “of faith” are very defensive because they want intellectual respect for positions not arrived at intellectually and want respect to which they know they are not entitled. They want me to treat their faith or their mystical belief with the same respect I treat another person’s rational or scientific conviction. And when the faithful do not get that, they get antagonistic or offended. To me, this defensiveness is an issue of an intellectual bad conscience more than anything else. So, show me a book that can intelligibly define the god you believe in and then adduce evidence for its existence and I will reconsider my position.

As to the Old Testament, the character Jesus in the New Testament says: “For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5: 18). According to the author (Matthew), Jesus was enforcing the Old Testament and that means all my references above do apply.

As to reading the Bible cover to cover. Did you count the murders by god or by its direction? Killing is talked about much more than love in that book. Why is God so violent? If he is so loving, then why does he kill so many people? To be clear, this is not to argue but to perhaps gain an understanding that has eluded me so far.