ok;;; all of these power-over-people crimes are
grouped together, in my view -- from fraud to rape
to murder. . a continuum of evil. -- j
.

I didn't have the sense that you were belittling the crime discussed - it's ancient history - so worry not.

I love my precious wife, in part because she's spicy!
we don't get rough with one another, because there
is enough pain already. . but spicy is wonderful.
the reluctance on Dominique's part to acknowledge
her expressed desire made the scene more than
spicy. . Roark watched as she changed from
"Don't. . Stop." to "Don't stop!" . Yes? -- j
.

Fact is, when I first read the scene in The Fountain-
head (Roark & Dominique), I was shocked and hor-
rified. ( Of course, she had hit him previously with a
riding whip). I read in a collection of letters of Ayn
Rand, that she said that it was a symbolic action
that Dominique had all but invited. Also, she said that an actual rape of an unwilling victim
would be terrible. She said things that indicated
that she did not think men should be allowed to
go around raping women.--(But I wonder about a
man unilaterally deciding in his own mind what
someone else really wants). But in Atlas Shrugged (the novel) there is no rape.

sounds like Galt's living room to me!!! -- j
.

I think we are on the same team, johnpe. I am not a coach - too much time as a lone wolf. I can be a 2AM philosopher, though.

Imagine a group of us sitting together in a library at the small hours of the night, perhaps dressed in proper Victorian fashion, discussing the philosophy of self-realization and intrinsic self-worth and drinking good brandy while the fireplace crackles in the background and the Aussie dog snores softly on a politically unacceptable bearskin rug.

Jan

And so he entered the tunnel leading from
behind

ooooops. . sorry; I didn't mean to belittle it;;; I was
just observing the facts. . the exclamation point
made the mistake worse. -- j

p.s. the same is true for my wife -- but it's history
which we don't visit often.
.

yes, like the woman whom I waited for, for 23 years.......
interesting story -- the "what to say" woman..... -- j
.

procedure? interesting choice of words.
It's is more difficult to make it clear that it was not rape in the movie than the book - in the movie were weren't inside Dagny's head, but in the book we were - and it was not rape.

I WAS raped by my EXhusband and it was rape: a crime of violence. Marriage vows have little to do with it.

I read, somewhere, that Rand had called Roark & Dominique "rape by engraved invitation."

some people will stoop lower than scum to try to
discredit anyone who believes in honest straight-at'cha
value-for-value living. . and loving. -- j
.

No, John was not a rapist. The true assaults are on the thinking mind, by people who write the drivel you read on sites like that.

It certainly didn't look that way in the movie...unless Dagny was getting ready for a picnic! Oops...maybe it WAS for a picnic...

aNother Great Reply! . Jan, I want you on my team!
will you be our coach, to maximize the potential of
each and every member? . Thank You!!! -- j

p.s. and that's why I supposed that they'll be after
Ronald McDonald for pedophile behavior next!
.

ok -- we agree to disagree. . I married a woman
who traded up, and her view is that we independently
figured out life in the same way, then joined forces.
I tend to agree with her. -- j
.

It was directed at you, Zanphamy, and at your anger at a society which is playing really rude tricks on men who happen to be while males. I wanted to remind you that here, in the Gulch, you were not going to be treated that way by your fellow Gulchers.

Since the topic of this thread is Rape, however, I thought it appropriate to add in that male 'strength' is not attractive when it becomes 'abuse'. I revel in the strength of capable men around me - and many of them are much stronger than I am. But if they thought to use that strength in an inappropriate fashion, they would have real trouble from me: most of them are not so much stronger that I would not be able to tear holes in them in a confrontation.

It is unfortunate that we live in a world where I have to keep this in mind. (Happily, most of the really strong men around me are also of noble disposition and if they saw me in trouble, I would not fight alone.) I think that the physical difference between men and women is less than it is write up to be. Imagine a Victorian woman, vs a modern female athlete. The Victorian woman has been protected from any physical exertion during her whole life, so the delta of strength between her and her husband is going to be large. Now take the female athlete: She and her husband both play tennis and work out at the gym. He is still significantly stronger than she is, but the difference is not as great as it was between the Victorian woman and her spouse.

We are still in the midst of changing what we think of as a woman "achieve all she can as a female" and a man "achieves all that a male can". I want to maximize both potentials. And yes, that includes the fact that you should be able to volunteer to help take a 4th grade class on a museum trip without someone putting you on a predator watch list.

Jan

Maybe it was just the movie, but Galt "flat-lined" for a short time, minute or so, then "CPR" was revived.

Galt knew that SHE would be tortured if she did not betray him, in order to use her as leverage against him. The Government did not want to kill Galt, but use him to FIX their policies using their policies, and if they knew he and her has that kind of "love" they would use her to force him to do what he knew was not possible.

There was a lot of brilliant complexities to those scenes.

It illustrates the depth of their attraction and need for each other, which makes rape a ridiculous claim.

I don't know if Galt was telling he would sacrifice, but I do think he was saying that making love at that time would cost him, but he was willing to pay the price as it meant that much to him.
In his apartment he was telling Dagny that she had to appear to betray him in order to save his life, not hers.
Also in the book I don't think that Galt died, although he was tortured.
Little points.

Galt was also saying that in his "physical" expression of love, that he achieved an emotional connection whereby he would lay down his life for her. Galt was telling her that he would sacrifice willingly.

Remember later he did when he surrendered to the authorities in his apartment, telling Dagny to "appear" to betray him. to save her life.

Also remember that in the end, John had in essence died, for a brief time before being revived.

That's not necessary john. I've read it numerous times in articles and from people from the progressive and socialist side of the world whose ideas and politics are threatened by AR's writings.

Yes, rhetorical. She knew John Galt would never take her physical life. Murder would be contrary to his philosophy and out-of-character.