Catagory for firearm discussion

Posted by stargeezer 3 years, 8 months ago to The Gulch: Feature Requests
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How about a place where we can discuss firearms, gun smith work, reloading and the application of these tools. Hunting, target shooting, survival, and concealed carry.


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  • Posted by MattFranke 3 years, 8 months ago
    I like guns. You like guns, too? We should hang out sometime.
    The first thing I thought was missing when I got here to the Gulch was a thread on self-sufficiency, preparedness, self-defense, and 'arms' of all sorts, particularly, GUNS. 8-D
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
      Any time MattFranke. I'm a long range target shooter, who also enjoys a form of 3 gun that is modified for long range shooters. Rifle @ 500-1500yds, shotgun @ 100yds (with slugs) and pistol @ 100-200yds.

      A target with the center still in it points to the loser. :)
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      • Posted by MattFranke 3 years, 8 months ago
        Ya, 3 guns sounds pretty fun. Damn the price of ammo.
        Though, in my personal experience, the best way to improve your skills isn't to go drop a hundred dollar every weekend shooting; but to go out and shoot like 5 rounds a day. It's going to be that first shot that counts, and that's usually what needs the most practice, particularly drawing and target acquisition .
        Although, that's kinda of hard if you can't shoot in your own backyard. Lucky me.
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      • Posted by  $  Susanne 3 years, 8 months ago
        That sounds either really masochistic or really fun. Probably a bit of both! What's the preferred rounds? I would assume .308, 3" 12 ga, and... hmmm... 357 with a light spitzer style bullet? I always wanted to play with something like that for a 44 mag, tho it seems too big to be light enough for flat trajectory...
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        • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
          I use two rifles, both Savage 10BA one in .308 for up to 1000 yds and the other is and.338 Lapula for 1200 and over. My shotgun is a special built slug gun that started life as a 870, but the only thing still the same is the receiver. My pistol is a Thompson Contender with a 14" barrel chambered in 45/70 with a 12x scope. I also shoot a 1911 @ the 100yd targets when I can get somebody to take a bet about my hitting it. Not too many takers anymore, I practice that shot a couple days a week.

          Of course I build all my own ammo so I can tune it to the gun.
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          • Posted by  $  WillH 3 years, 8 months ago
            Wow. Me with a handgun at 100 yards would be a matter of luck. LOL I just finished a Ruger American in .308 that I am looking to stretch out a bit. It's grouping right at .75" at 100 yards, so I think there is potential there if I can get my load data exactly right.
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            • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
              The RA is a pretty good rifle. The barrel is a bit light for long range work, but out to 500yds or so it will do great.

              If you aren't carrying it, you might pull off the buttplate and see if the buttstock is hollow. If it is, you can pour some shotgun shot into a ziplock baggy and stuff it in the hollow. Some guys drill the stock to do the same thing. The added weight will help with the recoil and help with keeping the rifle locked into sandbags.

              The more solid the position is, the better the accuracy will be.

              Now if you are carrying it as a hunting rifle, you can do the same trick, but aim for balancing the rifle right in front of the trigger guard. If you have a bipod up front, you can put more shot in there.

              As for load data, every rifle is different and what works for me might give you a 3" group at 100yds. That said, I like Hodgdon Benchmark and load it with a 168gr Nosler Custom Competition at 42 grains. That is close to the max load for that round and might exceed the limits of the RA - approach it cautiously. Work up from 38 grains if you try it.

              My rifles that I use this round in have much heavier barrels and receivers than the RA, but it's a very accurate combo in my guns.

              BTW, I'd never shoot this load in my M1A1. Doing so would break the action for certain.
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              • Posted by  $  WillH 3 years, 8 months ago
                42 grains is a lot of power there. I have been working up using a Hornady 150 grain FMJBT. Right now I am at 40 grains of Benchmark. Yeah, I am not really expecting 1,000 yard performance, but I want to get to about 500 yards with a setup that would still perform fairly well using standard ball NATO rounds as a readily available alternative ammo supply. That is what’s keeping me in the 150 grain range.

                Once I get it where I want it I plan on loading some using 150 grain Hornady Interbond and go stick me a pig. I have heard that wild boar is very close to domestic pig in taste, so I am going to find out for myself.

                Thanks for the weight tip. Right now I have to stock stuffed with bushcraft stuff, fire starting supplies, etc.
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                • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
                  If you are using military brass, 42 grains will be a compressed load. I use some mil srup brass for practice, but my competition brass is Lapula. The stuff is NOT cheap, but it's very consistent. And that's the important thing. A difference in wall thickness run out of .003" will cause a 6" deflection of the bullet at 500yards with a .308.
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                  • Posted by  $  WillH 3 years, 8 months ago
                    Nah, I am using commercial brass, mostly Winchester. I have some Lake City I got a really good price on, but I have not used it figuring on developing a load separately for it. I am mostly looking at hunting accuracy. There are no ranges around here that I can push into the super accuracy game. If I can get "Hickok45" type accuracy I will be happy.
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  • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 3 years, 8 months ago
    Morality is not a matter of arithmetic. Right and wrong are objectively determinable. I gave sound epistemologic reasons why "Guns" might fit under Technology, for example. Basically however, the gun people are having a good discussion right now, one of several here. They can place them under History or Politics or Technology, etc., as appropriate.

    khalling wrote: "Sigh, unfortunately we are outnumbered on this one M M. One of the qualities that make this site unique is that it 's about shared interest in the movies first and foremost. ... we have added at least one category since I came on board."

    What was that new category? Was it conceptually at the same level of abstraction as the others? Nothing stands out to me. I suppose that Videos might be with Movies and Books under Media, but that would force Legislation under Politics. I think that strict outline form might be inappropriate. The taxonomy I see here seemed to be intuitively obvious and "Guns" just stand out as would "Sports Cars."

    If we have a shared interest in "Atlas Shrugged" then Guns really has little place here on its own as a special forum. Scott had to remind me of a third instance of guns in the book; none was significant. Francisco just stood behind the chimney firing (pg 924 ppb). Are those automatics or revolvers? Glocks, SigSauers, or Colts? It does not really matter. Guns are not that important.

    The other two instances involve Rearden being willing to shoot two police officers to protect Ragnar Danneskjold and Dagny killing a soldier who was mentally paralyzed. Aside from the dramatic fiction, the makes and models were irrelevant.

    Again, I point to Numismatics which is far more important to capitalism, but for which no special need exists to create a separate forum.

    If six people are enough to lobby for an abandonment of the menu structure, where does it stop? Quite a few people here like beer. Alcoholic beverages receive only passing notice in the book, but do have more visibility in the movie.

    The "Atlas Shrugged Part 2" flying a jet is very important to the drama of the opening and closing. In the book, Dagny flew a piston engine plane. We do not need an Aviation category because we have no special interest in flying despite the fact that it is significant in the story and actually shared by some here. (Again, see my post on "Aviation Culture" under Culture.)

    I mean, really, if we had an interest any kinds of machineries, would they not be (1) railroads and (2) electric motors?

    What justifies a special forum for guns? Again, perhaps it is a Technology. But we already discuss them freely as appropriate.
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    • Posted by  $  WillH 3 years, 8 months ago
      I can see your point Mike, but at the same time guns have become a lynchpin for personal freedom within the US. It is the ultimate expression of freedom to hunt for your own food and defend yourself and family. It is important to a vast number of people. Many on the natural freedom of self-destiny level and others in the biblical sense of Christ telling his followers that if they had cloaks and no swords to sell their cloaks and buy swords. It appeals to many people for many reasons. If that right is lost a substantial amount of people will consider the American way of life to be lost along with it.

      There are certainly aspect of life more important to AS, but how many issues right now carry the importance of guns and the gun control debate and what that might mean to our civilization to come?
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
      I can hardly believe that we both forgot to include the arming of Reardon's foundry workers and their efforts to repel the thugs from Reardon Steel. The account of Francisco standing on the roof picking off bad guys with a pistol in each hand should be burned into our collective minds.

      Would you propose they should have thrown quarters at them?????

      :
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
      While I recognize the point you seem to make, that guns were not a significant tool utilized in AS, I would counter that in addition to the two references you gave the use and references were far larger than you presented.

      Certainly you recognize that Ragnar was utilizing guns from the beginning of his part of the strike. While most of us "gun people" would have included more details about firearms had we been the author, this lack of inclusion may indicate a lack of understanding on the part of the Ayn Rand. Not a criticism, just a observation that many people, for many reasons never learn to properly handle firearms. This lack only points to the need for such instruction as can be given in these pages.

      One noted fear that many untrained hold is that the inanimate object will somehow cause a otherwise sane person to suddenly become a mass murderer. It sounds silly to us who understand firearms, but this very concept has even been described in the halls of congress. That should not give it any more value than the worship of the moon as god gets, but there you are.

      Still others, the more prevalent thankfully, simply fear firearms due to a lack of familiarization. These are folks we can and do help. Help is offered through NRA basic pistol classes for those who have never touched a pistol before to private, one on one classes with certified instructors, like myself. As an Army armory instructor I taught many students who were fearful of firearms. And one of the most basic needs was to recognize that guns are just tools, to be used for good or bad. The final usage is up to the individual.

      The propose category would allow a specific place where a foundational database of solid information could be assimilated and accessed by all. A place where specifics of the use of firearms can be cataloged as more and more join us as strikers. There is far more value to the life of a striker in the knowledge of firearms than in the production of beer (although that's important to as a life skill), but the production of beer is a skill that has a fixed bit of data to learn in the life of a striker, firearm knowledge will protect, feed, clothe and warm a striker.

      The exploration of "Numismatics which is far more important to capitalism" has value to culture and therefore has a home, firearms do not.
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  • Posted by  $  Mimi 3 years, 8 months ago
    There are definitely many gun advocates onboard. How about calling it the “Pioneer or Frontier” forum. That way it it isn’t a in-your-face kind of launch.

    ETA: I don’t know squat about firearms or hunting I would love to learn more.
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 3 years, 8 months ago
      I say we use the word "firearms"....how is that "in your face" anyway? Ya lost me, Mimi.
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      • Posted by  $  Mimi 3 years, 8 months ago
        Well, if it’s just firearms that makes sense, but when you include discussing of hunting and survival, you are also talking about equipment, other skills like archery, maybe locales...a firearm topic tends to open the door to a variety of discussion. We are not as of yet breaking the forum down to sections and sub-sections. To tell you the truth, I don’t know why I phrased it the way I did earlier. Just wanted to post and run. Like now..Later!
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  • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
    A very prime example of the potential need for this would be will's posting today on a topic titled "Check you carry ammo". It certainly would be a candidate for posting in "Firearms" instead of "Technology".
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    • Posted by Hiraghm 3 years, 8 months ago
      I also want to ask some collectors whether they think I'd be happier getting a reproduction 1847 Colt Walker, or a reproduction 1858 Remington (the short-barreled version).

      So I'm just waiting for the category to be established :)
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      • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
        i.ve got both and while the walker is cool, it,s BIG, but the rem fits my hand better, so I shoot it more.

        If you are talking about collecting original firearms, the walker has more value.
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  • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 3 years, 8 months ago
    I am opposed. A "Guns" category would violate the design structure of the discussion board.

    My primary hobby area is numismatics. What most people call "coin collecting" is the art and science that studies the forms and uses of money. The subject is highly important to capitalism. Here in the Gulch, I have posted articles and links to articles about gold coins, stock certificates, industrial award medals, and similar topics. They go into History or Business or under some other Category. So, too, with guns.

    The rubric "Guns" is conceptually less abstract that the other Categories. That is why I never asked for a Numismatics category.

    I also learned to fly. I never completed the certification, but half of my hundred hours are solo, including night. I have an article here on "The Virtues of Aviation Culture." Find it here: http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/bc...
    "Piloting an aircraft demands, rewards, and exemplifies the virtues taught by Objectivism." I placed it under Culture. It could have gone under Philosophy or Technology. But a separate "Aviation" category would be inconsistent with the design structure of the discussion boards.
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    • Posted by khalling 3 years, 8 months ago
      Sigh, unfortunately we are outnumbered on this one M M. One of the qualities that make this site unique is that it 's about shared interest in the movies first and foremost. Although Objectivism is discussed- looking for some twists that keep our audience enthused merits a look see. I have no idea what the admin are thinking regarding this but we have added at least one category since I came on board.


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  • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
    We have had six postings that support the proposal and one spell check, are there any other members who have an opinion?

    We can pass on the spell checks.
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