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Remake of Babylon 5

Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 11 months ago to Culture
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I have several times mentioned that Jupiter Ascending (a good film in its own right) had the additional advantage of showing what a remake of B5 could be like. On other threads I am promoting the concept that Art Leads and that we need heroes to take us forward philosophically. In the meantime, Agialoro has stated that there are 'more movies' in the works.

Put these thoughts together. Use Straczynski's existing scripts (save a bundle on writing) with a few of the bad ones omitted and modern CGI to redo the effects. Hire a cast (that includes Patricia Tallman - Wyatt's secretary and secret telepath - and Kristoffer Polaha) to recreate the roles. Work in some of the elements that were left out due to studio writhings - such as the technowizards in the final battles and maybe the parasites in Exogenesis to remember the Shadows and their weaknesses.

The story is one of the need for freedom over every other aspect of life: attachment to Earth, conquest and enslavement, cosmic powers...nothing is more important than freedom and self-determination.

Like all remakes, it will have a ready following - and it knows where it is going. It can could be produced as a mini-series quite effectively.

Jan


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  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 11 months ago
    I'd love to see B5 done with modern SFX.
    However, Jupier Ascending was pathetically bad and I didn't care what happened to any of the 2 dimensional characters. The only scene to remember was one involving dealing with bureaucracy.
    B5 had real characters to care about, rational productive goals, heroes at many levels who were unashamed of their philosophy, and the best writing, direction, and production ever seen on television.
    (If you need to blow anything up, I know just the guy who has experience in lots of movie features, including Galaxy Quest, Pirates of the Caribbean, Transformers, War Games, and scores more.)

    B5 should have been redone already with modern SFX. As you said there are likely 500,000 BlueRay sales just waiting for that to be available on Amazon. It should be a no brainer cash cow for the owner of the rights.
    http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/m...
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    • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 11 months ago
      I totally agree about Jupiter. It was a poorly edited film with screwy continuity. It failed to get the basics of film-making down which is a cardinal sin. The bureaucracy segment was almost worth the price of admission -- almost, but not quite. Otherwise, J's thoughts are worth contemplating.
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  • Posted by CTYankee 8 years, 11 months ago
    While I' like to see B5 cleaned/restored up I would hope that they would refrain from wasting the $$$ on a cold remake.

    The B5 universe presents a multitude of opportunities for equally engaging stories -- i.e. "A view from the gallery"

    Wouldn't it be fascinating to know what was transpiring on Centauri Prime, or Narn, or Minbar, or a host of other worlds??? I'd pay good money for those stories.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
      Most of the follow on stories that I have seen for B5 seem to lack 'the Muse'. The main arc has a real purpose, but the B arcs are somewhat lacking.

      That having been said, I would love to follow the other worlds, and other threads, if a writer could be found to take up the baton that JRS passes to them.

      Jan
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    • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago
      They have several companion movies - especially focusing on Centauri Prime. The one I saw was of Londo explaining to his grandchildren (I think) about an illicit arms deal that nearly scuppered the Shadow War. I think there are several others as well (one about the Rangers), but it's been a LONG time since I've seen them.
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  • Posted by BradA 8 years, 11 months ago
    OK, I am a huge B5 fan and IMO it is the best series ever created for the small screen. Bar none. With that said, I see no point in a reboot.

    JMS' work is a masterpiece, flaws and all. The series was way ahead of its time. Killing off major characters (GoT), a fixed arc with a beginning middle and end (BB), 3 dimensional characters with real flaws that did impact the story line (any number of current series), cutting edge CGI (at the time), and I could go on. All this from something created more than 20 years ago.

    But beneath it all were the ideas. Big ideas and small ideas. Ideas that made you think. About philosophy, the nature of our existence, life, relationships. Nothing was off limits and none of the answers were easy or even resolved. I continue to struggle with the one big question. Is progress achieved better through order or chaos?

    Now, if some of today's producers and writers want a rich source for new material, instead of the repetitive and regurgitated crap that keeps getting put on the the big screen, they could do worse than mine the rich vein that was B5.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
      BradA -

      The purpose in a reboot would be to get B5 on the screen again with new CGI and a smoother plot arc. The reason to choose B5 is _because_ its superb quality would be worth the effort - but few new people will watch the old series because of its dated Fx.

      The purpose behind this is not just to gratify the fans, but to enhance the trend promoted by "CA: Winter Soldier" to heighten awareness of freedom and the costs of freedom. B5 is an excellent vehicle for this purpose because you do not have to 'warp' it (forgive me the pun) to make it have that message - the message is inherent in the plot arc.

      In short: B5 is not a viable production as it is because it is 'dated'. It would be worthwhile to reboot it - and you can establish an economic value to doing so because (like comic book movies) it has an established fan base. It has a message we want to promote.

      Jan
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  • Posted by Riftsrunner 8 years, 11 months ago
    From what I read by JMS concerning B5, it was supposed to be gritty and unpolished looking. He wanted his show to be a counterpoint to Star Trek where all of mankind's problems were solved and the ships were shiny and clean. JMS felt we have had millenia of time to solve our prejudices and problems and they are still with us, so a few hundred years isn't going to erase those traits. Our ventures into space are going to be in ships designed for practicality over flash and style, so I see JMS wanting to keep some reality in his vision of the future if he were to remake the series.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
      Excellent point. We would have to keep the gritty look and retain the fact that the future does not magically solve the legacy problems of humankind (or other species-kind, such as Narn and Centari).

      Jan
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 11 months ago
    "No one here is exactly what he appears." Gkar from Babylon 5
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
      The most difficult part to cast will be Gkar; next, Mollari. The elevator scene is boggling, and Gkar's speeches on freedom provide the underlying meaning for about a third of the show.

      Jan
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      • Posted by VictorianMedievalist 8 years, 11 months ago
        I am a complete B5 fanatic and I would love to see a reboot. That being said, I don't know without actors like Andreas Katsulas and Peter Jurasik (also Stephen Furst and Mira Furlan), it would have the same soul as the original series did.

        How is it that people won't watch B5 because it has outdated SFX but they will watch the Original Star Trek until the crack of doom?
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        • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 11 months ago
          I don't know, but Peter is still around I think, he was on a Con panel not too long ago, there is a few recordings on YouTube of them. Andre will be hard to replace because he was GKar, he made the character according to what I heard on the panels, and that becomes almost impossible to reproduce.
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        • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
          They won't. I have seen many people in their 30's cringe when we older folk began talking about the original ST. Now TNG - that is a different matter (to them)!

          I could not cast a replacement for Gkar - but there are professionals who can do this. Sometimes. One could hope.

          Jan
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      • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 11 months ago
        No one can replace the original characters, any more than the soulless actors in the reboot of Star Trek can come close to Kirk, Spock, Bones, and Scott. It's a fool's errand. A reprocessing of the SFX only would be an easy sell, albeit technically difficult for the scenes with SFX and live actors.
        Can anyone ever replace Scarecrow and Ms. DeLenn?
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        • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
          Granted they will not be 'the same' but I think a re-casting and remake of the series would be a good idea. The annual threat of cancellation caused some rifts in the storyline, and the replacement of Sinclair by Sheridan was not part of the original plot (though it was a great idea, in retrospect). A better story could be made out of the existing material if it were re-shot.

          My problem with the reboot of Star Trek is not so much the characters (who are, in many respects, better portrayed than in the original Star Trek; the acting in Next Generation was (you must admit) a lot better than in the original) but the plot - or lack thereof. The producers have fallen into the 'lets have a lot of things blow up and people will be happy' category of film-making and they need to realize that the SF genre is quite picky about plot and - need I say it - rational behavior. (The plot of Into Darkness made NO sense whatsoever.)

          This thread is a spin-off of the "Objectivist Movies" thread. I think that we could make a stronger presentation of the value of freedom in three ways: Gkar against the Centari (a better speech you cannot find!), younger species against the Vorlons and Shadows, and spacer cultures against totalitarian Earth.

          Jan
          Scarecrow? (edited to add question)
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          • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 11 months ago
            G'Kar is a heroes hero. I would vote for G'Kar, but of course, G'Kar would never run ;^)

            The acting (or possibly the characters and acting) in STNG by Diana Troi, Will Riker, Welsey Crusher was putrid. As UFOP emperor, I would have spaced the lot of them along with Picard, and poisoned Q. There were decent performances by some others, but the same can be said of the STOS cast (without the constant statist themes and politically correct rubbish.)

            I agree that the reboot modern ST is empty-headed boomboom movie making. Entertaining at a basic level, but rubbish otherwise. You hit the nail on the head; it's not rational.

            If recasting and rewriting with JMS in complete control and a limitless budget, then B5 as a whole 'might' be improved. There were episodes that definitely needed work, and they could be improved. But like a Constitutional Convention, there are no guarantees that Whorelywould might interfere.

            If I was wealthy, I'd make The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress instead of recasting B5, and the aftermarket products would drive the CIA and NSA crazy.

            Your quote (in another reply in this topic) is the centerpiece of B5.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhIzBy9f...
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            • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
              Moon is a Harsh Mistress could certainly be a fine movie...though one would have to wonder if publicizing the idea that if we settle the moon the settlers will revolt against Earth control would be a good idea at this time.

              Jan
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              • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 11 months ago
                There was a push to get TMIAHM made, it bubbled around and I think they sold the movie rights a couple times. The abortion they made out of Starship Troopers put a stake in the heart of Heinlein films, although Puppet Masters made a sort of credible attempt until the end.
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                • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
                  One of the things that the superhero movies have done is establish that you can make a lot of money on SF (and heroic, optimistic SF at that).

                  Perhaps we will circle back around to Heinlein someday.

                  I am looking forward to seeing The Martian this November. The story was akin to the old SF by Clark and was totally engrossing.

                  Jan
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                  • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 11 months ago
                    I wish the studios would wake up to that. Sci Fi is a relly good market, I think Guardians of the Galaxy proved that, when it is well done. Paramount/CBS has jerked around ST so much and allowed the brand to disintegrate. The only good thing is that they allow you to use it for not for profit shows, so there is a plethora of them on YT and the Axanar project will be theater quality for less than 1 million, they used Kickstarter for the funds and got close to 700K. All that offsets their ineptitude to keep people interested in it and not just shy away.
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          • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 11 months ago
            The reboot of Star Trek is a prime example of what happens when you take an established story filled univers and find it is too hard to work in the story. Go look at Axanar and you will see just how easy it can be done, you just have to know the whole outline of the canon and work within. They are taking a very small bit (Garth if Isnar from the episode with the loony bin) and making a whole story from it. And it will be awesome...
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  • Posted by MagicDog 8 years, 11 months ago
    An excellent point given that great art seems to be almost nonexistent in today's world.
    Where are the great artists like Picasso, Warhol and others in abstract. Where are the painters who could capture the subjects personality? Where are the writers who's famous quote can bring a tear to your eye, Dante, Dickens, Tennyson, T.S. Elliot, Gibbon and Melville to mention a few?
    "Abandon hope all ye who enter here",
    “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times”,
    “All in the valley of Death, Rode the six hundred”,
    “Let us go then, you and I, When the evening is spread out against the sky”,
    “Unprovided with original learning, unformed in the habits of thinking, unskilled in the arts of composition, I resolved to write a book”,
    "Call me Ishmael".
    As Ludwig von Mises once said to a reporter who asked what he thought of the world today “I am amazed”. So am I.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
      Gkar: "No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power tyrants and dictators cannot stand. The Centauri learned that lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free."

      Jan
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  • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 11 months ago
    Jan, if you like ST ships, check out Trekyards on Youtube, they do a differnet ship each week. I have donated them a new Intel Haswell chip and Motherboard to build a new PC that will signifigantly improve their rendering ability. They even go into a whole slew of the "offshoot ships".
    Also go check out "Prelude to Axanar" on YouTube, and look at what semi-pros can do with good actors, you will recognize the Klingon warlord by name (Richard Hatch from BattlestarGalactica (original)) but all the rest have done characters on ST in various flavors. The Starfleet admiral was the Klingon general with one eye on DS9.The full movie (currently in the works) is being done done in California, you may want to look into them, they accept help from any source and you could actually meet some of them.
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  • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 11 months ago
    B5 was groundbreaking in many respects, it actually established Lightwave as a major 3D tool and enabled a lot of advances that later movies built on. I absolutely agree that B5 was a great story, I tell people who have never seen it to watch it from begging to end in sequence, with a couple of the movies placed to give context, such as In the Beginning and The Gathering. Jan, I must respectfully disagree that there were any bad ones. I thought every one built something into the story. JMS built a 5 years story that others tried to follow (Such as Enterprise) with the "Arc" idea, but I think he was a master to bring it off. I still occasionally watch the episode that Lando goes after the bugs in his room with the sword, Peter was absolutely hilarious as Lando. I try to scour the "con" panels on Youtube, The Rangers movie also opened a lot of doors that could be followed, and I even thought Crusade could have gone on as well. But you are absolutely right about the story being of hope and freedom and that good would triumph over evil.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
      We will disagree on this then, nickursis. While I agree with you on much of what you say (groundbreaking; Lando; Lando and bugs) there are some episodes that I skip when re-watching the series. When Star Trek tried to be 'topical', it generally succeeded; when B5 tried to be 'topical'...well, those are the episodes I skip. The two that come to mind are the "AIDs" episode and the "Christian Science" episode. Mind you, I agree with JMS's message in those episodes, I just find them blatant and uninteresting. I have watched the 5th season once, and while there were some excellent scenes therein I found the plot arc so weak I did not want to watch it again. One of the things that I feel could be 'fixed' in a remake would be to give the Shadow War and the Liberation of Earth the amount of time and attention that JMS had intended (and make use of some of the plot threads he included and did not take up in the shortened time allotted).

      Jan
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      • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 11 months ago
        OK, concur. I just found each episode added something. I do agree some were somewhat obscure and boring, but I felt I had to grind thru them. I do agree season 5 seemed like a "we have to make this last" type thing, I never felt that he dealt with the whole Telepath issue completely. I did like Walter Koenig as Bester, I thought he did a very credible job.
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        • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 11 months ago
          And you are quite correct that the Shadow War and Liberation of Earth could be the central story. Did you note that in the last episode Lando gave them the vase with the keeper in it for the child? That just went by and left you hanging when they ended.
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          • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
            Yes, I noticed that. But the central story as far as _I_ am concerned are the 3 plot arcs of Freedom. I am not going to dispute that there could be a lot of spin-offs...including the adventures of an Explorer class ship...exploring strange new planets...

            Jan
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