Absolutely. She talks about how she grew, how she loves being around producers (who include Objectivists) and how she feels better about herself now that she is using her potential and making things happen at work. She works willingly any hours that are needed to see the business grow where she is in charge of day to day operations and promotions. She said she will never again even date anyone who does not understand that kind of thinking. The Rand seed was there all along, it just needed some life experience to cause it to grow and flourish.

And I get the distinct impression that Obama and Holder are working very hard for a race war. Insanity!

My dad taught myself and my brother to be producers. I taught my son to be like wise wise. AS was a graduation gift from HS. We are currently teaching my nephew (my brothers son, because my brother was killed in a car crash in 06') to do likewise. He has watched the movie, but not read the book as he is only 11. He understands parts of it, but not all. He understands Money is a tool, and we are teaching him "The Oath"

I am an Objectivist, but not a Rand apologist. Her sex scenes were brutal and well fit the rape fantasy. “Passionate forceful dynamics” might describe consensual acts between two adults, her scenes did not have any such communication between the parties. I view your statement as the fallacy of the false alternative. At least Lillian/James were obviously consensual.

If it was a choice between passionate forceful dynamics, bordering on "50 shades" versus the vile, bland unsatisfying interactions between Lillian Rearden and James Taggart, I'm sure most life-loving folk wouldn't have a had time choosing ;)

That thought scares me. I'm living in a country where the (supposedly conservative) government weathered the Global Financial Crisis through record levels of borrowing.

Right you are, Jan. You'll never win hearts with any derogatory labels. Better to approach them with wealth, and say "Did anyone tell you that you can actually HAVE this? And you DON'T have to cheat, or lie, or swindle, or bribe politicians, or exploit vulnerable people, or destroy the environment in order to get it? I'm willing to spend some time with you and show you HOW!"

Right you are, Jan. Movies. Novels. Plays. Songs. The market is screaming out for a charismatic objectivist rapper! :D

Has she reconciled with her family and come to understand your earlier toughlove decisions?

And, to an extent, vice-versa! :D

Your "conversion" description fits many of us.
I think that a person must first express an interest in Objectivism. Once that occurs then let the learning begin. I like the way Branden did it. He formulated a 10 week course called "Basic Principles of Objectivism" and held classes in his locality. The sessions were taped, and people who were known Objectivists in various areas were selected to present the tapes on a weekly basis for the nominal fee of $10. I don't know if the course still exists in either Rand's or Branden's estates, or perhaps a new course can be formulated. In any case, I know that where I lived, it produced a group of people well grounded in Rand's philosophy.

Congratulations! +10! Let's not forget that what got the ball rolling was someone saying "enough". Great story. Wish your daughter good luck from me, please.

Hello davidmcnab,
For some it will take a deprogramming, program. Perhaps something like AA's 12 step program and the first step is recognizing and admitting you have problem. I believe once people open their eyes to the reality that they are contributing to the leftist, socialist mentality that is destroying rather than improving things, only then can they be redeemed. Some, as you have indicated, are and always will be oblivious, while others know deep down there is something wrong.
Regards,
O.A.

It is hard to overcome the entitlement thinking so programmed into our young people by schools and government. Our daughter was an example. Raised with the philosophy of Rand, she had a nice middle class life at home, and college. We tried to undo the programming along the way, but it took to to large an extent. She got her degree, had no desire to use it, got married to someone with no desire to work, and expected (and received hands outs from both sets of parents for a while). Finally my husband said "enough", and we cut them off. Now, daughter felt sorry for herself, they got public assistance, and told each other how mean everyone was. Then, one day, daughter got tired of living like the public assistance folk, having to join the health care lines, no cool car, no respect like when she was at home. She no longer liked being one of the sheep. She got a part time job, among producers, worked hard to create a full time position for herself. Suddenly, she began to climb the ladder and loved it. She is paying her own way still, and working on an MBA. She is in the process of dumping the lazy looting husband. This transition has taken about seven years, but it is wonderful to see. Hard to watch as she had to hit bottom on the looter scale, but her enthusiasm for producing, and the success she is finding, is wonderful. She understands that respect is earned by productive behavior. While I never had that issue, I was always an Objectivist at heart, she had to find her way to it. It does not help that we do want to give our children too much, we want them to have that cool car, that pricey education, but sometimes, they can't handle being given what they should earn. Deep down, they know that only by earning, can you find self-respect, it cannot be given.

wow. I had to pay attention to THIS thread

trying

BETTER LIFE, inevitably leads to BETTER SEX. Doesn't it follow directly?

I agree with a lot of what mamaemma, blarman, marshalletc said, but I think that an obvious point is being missed: Art LEADS.

The way to bring awareness of Objectivism to people is to Make Movies About It. Make superheroes endorse the individual (we are discussing this on another thread), make people who work for freedom the good guys instead of the good guys being cast as people who work for Mother Earth or World Union.

We will never make headway against the socialist ethos unless we have a strong image to present of ourselves. Too long have the capitalists been the Bad Guys of the movie - we need to be the Heroes now.

This Site is the result of a movie. It has had more effect on promoting the Randist philosophy than anything other than AS the book itself. More movies are being made, discussions on this (now huge) Objectivist site are lively. I think we are on the right track. We have to win people's hearts before they will be receptive to our engaging their minds.

Jan

Just remind people of what Baroness Thatcher understood: pretty soon you run out of other people's money.

I have spent a decade of my life with doing this for others as my primary reward. I work and run a technical support organization for various companies over the years, but the last decade my real aim has been to, little by little help people see the light of individualism, capitalism, Objectivism and LDS church. Any or all that a person shows interest in.

I have had some success and some disappointment. I think reaching out to others is the only way to really do it, and it takes time.

An example is the idea of taking care of the poor. The sales point of "we have to take care of the poor" is easy to make. Very few people want to see others suffer and stand around and do nothing to help. The issue is questions around this cannot be in a sound bite.

How do you define help?
Is it really helping to give someone a fish everyday, or is that destructive?

What costs are acceptable?
Is it worth helping that poor guy on the corner and getting killed because he is really a mugger that wants to rob you?

What are the boundaries?
Liberals think there are none but when posed with questions like this they start to think.

I once had a person form my church (church of Jesus Christ of later day saints) ask how anyone who believes in the church could not be in favor of welfare. My response was "I cannot understand how anyone who is a member of the church could be in favor of government welfare."

He said that Christ showed the example and we should follow it. I asked "Show one place where Christ forced anyone to help another, can you? I have never found it. Government welfare forces people to help others. Our religion teaches individual agency, in fact do we not believe that in a war in heaven, our god lost 1/3 of his children in war to maintain individual agency. How then can you support a system that would take that agency away?"

Two weeks later that person had read Atlas and was starting into the virtues of selfishness. He has completely changed and has been a friend for 8 years.

The successes are far less often than the failures on this though, and there are costs. A friend that I approached has not talked to me in 5 years. I have a sister who drank the looter cool-aid big time and she will not talk to me at all. A brother that did so less and I have pushed him largely out of my life by trying to share the concepts. These failures in particular had a heavy cost, but the cost would have been heavier not to try.

In my sisters case I and my father had helped her financially and in other ways. She simply did not change at all and I became fed up with it. I expressed exactly what she was doing, victimizing me for her benefit and I could see in her eyes that she knew it, and was scared that I knew it. She has not talked to me since.

We all have to be the rehab program for those around us, in whatever environment we can. We have to tolerate the looters a bit less, a whole lot less. All it takes for evil to win is for good people to do nothing. I define good to mean a person who will take care of themselves, and do all in their power to not inflict force on another of any kind. Respect the way in which others wish to live their lives so long as that lifestyle does not exert force on others in order to live it. This is what Christ meant when he said "love your neighbor as yourself."

Yes, she would do that frequently in the Q&A after the Ford Hall Forum lectures in Boston. Someone would ask a pointed and hostile question, hoping to catch her with it. Judge Lurie, the moderator, would often try to push such questions out of the way as the insults they were, but Rand might say, "No, this is very interesting. Let him speak!" She would then go on addressing the fundamental points, as well as the questioner's errors and possible motivation. I saw this happen several times. If her enemies were honestly intellectually curious, and not just flapping their mouths, they were well rewarded. Perhaps a few of them understood and reconsidered their positions.

I love this concept because I believe there are a lot of center people who lean left for the wrong reasons because they have not thought things through.

Unless we do simply "go gulch", this is the most important group to reach.

George Carlin had a routine that I still remember when he was talking about how we soften words to suit our meaning. He was talking about how that during WWI soldiers had "SHELL SHOCK". By WWII, they had "BATTLE FATIGUE" and now it's "POST TRAUMATIC STRESS SYNDROME". I think that applies to many other things in life. For many, it comes from the government instead of coming from the taxpayers. Manufacturers have turned into Big Business, then to the Multinational Corporate Monopolies. Companies that produce medications are now the Pharmaceutical Conglomerates. The list goes on, but it tends to taint the light that others see the very same things. We need to call things as they are and not use key words to invoke a reaction. To me, that would help in the rehab of this country.

Until it goes broke or we have a civil war, which I fear is actually very near on the horizon.

Looter rehab, is to JUST SAY NO, to any form of charity for the homeless and poor.

Provide your "Charity" only to those who are worthy and provide "value."

Honestly the liberals are so bi-polar, they do not even understand that they betray their own ideology.

Look at what the lefty liberal Mika is doing...Rewarding hard work. This is a direct violation of the "unfairness" that people think poor people have.


Mika is pushing a "Know Your Value" campaign. Sounds like Ayn Rand right?

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mika-brzezins...

"Mika hosted a twitter conversation and answered questions on how to gauge professional value and balance work and home life. She also introduced her newest book Grow Your Value, a guide for women to assess and obtain their true value in the workplace."

WOW....isn't that totally opposite of the leftie ideology?