[More and more FACTS are coming out, and the more we hear the more we find the cops really did not do anything wrong other than perhaps some procedural things.]

REALLY?! I dispute that. It wasn't a *procedural thing* that severed his spinal column.

[Freddy DID have a warrant issued for him on 3/13/2015, and did have a court summons issues for him on 4/12/2015 the day he died.]

OK, he had a warrant, but he didn't have a court-ordered execution outstanding, did he? I haven't paid careful attention in anticipation of your mea culpa with regard to your incorrect reporting that he had just had back surgery and probably severed his own spine, but you may have made it - and I remember that you specified that you were trying to confirm the information.

Addressing your headline, Where are the cries for their "Due Process?" that is a silly question! Government (the legal or justice system) is obligated to provide due process. That is not a function, or even a possibility for criminal action. Besides, all the headlines I read were announcing the murder, in cold blood, of two cops and they reported that there was a manhunt under way for the murderers. I saw plenty of calls for justice.

In case you were lamenting the contrast in reaction from the "general population," that is, the same people who protested and/or pillaged and destroyed, it's to be expected. When a government agent gets killed he has the entire machinery of government working for justice. When a "citizen" gets killed, especially someone with a criminal history and especially a member of a minority class that has been and may still be oppressed, it will probably be on the shoulders of some-kind-of-activist to pursue justice.

I feel comfortable saying, relying on anecdotal evidence and foregoing an exhaustive research effort, that misdeeds by government representatives at ALL levels get covered up and go unpunished in the vast majority of cases. This happens not only because they want to protect each other, but because scrutiny of government must be avoided at all costs.

I'm not going to stick up for Freddie as a person. It appears he was a habitual criminal, even though most (and possibly all) of the charges were for things that would not be crimes in a world that Objectivists and libertarians would call just.

It all comes down to this. Guilty or innocent, habitual criminal or first-time offender, the job of the police is to apprehend and arrest. That is supposed to be done with the minimum necessary force. Anything in excess of that is not OK.

As it should be................

I knew quite a few cops my day. When I had a retail camera shop they were my customers, and several were my friends. Granted it was a suburb of a big city, but there was plenty of crime to keep them busy. In my experience they were as nice as they needed to be to people, and mean as they needed to be to what they considered to be those breaking the law. I drove on a couple of nights with my cop friend on patrol. Depending on the incident, he was courteous and helpful, or businesslike, or as tough as he had to be. I realized as we proceeded around town that he approached every incident, from a traffic stop to a domestic squabble with extreme caution. He was determined to go home to his wife and kid.

I have seen the incidents of cops drunk with power creating unconstitutional situations. But I still cannot believe that they represent the majority. I don't think that anyone can deny that putting on a police uniform is the same as painting a target on your body. That alone can lead to a certain negative mind-set depending on the situation.

@woodlema: {you are looking at only 28,000 per year [civil rights violations by cops]}

You didn't say it, but I inferred, that 28,000 civil rights violations / year by cops is acceptable. Wait, I'll rephrase that, I inferred that you consider 28,000 / 40M = 0.7% "error" (I say illegal oppression by a government thug) rate to be a laudable level of *improper* violence by police against those they are meant to protect.

I find it wholly *unacceptable.* An "error" is when a cop spells your name wrong, or detains you because you fit the description of a wanted suspect, or writes you a speeding ticket without realizing he was actually clocking a different car.

Beating a suspect that's clearly already under control or shooting a man whose back is to you, those are NOT ERRORS! Dear Zeus, it's like Lois Lerner or Alberto Gonzalez or Eric Holder getting caught red handed LYING to Congress and then whining that they "misspoke" or "failed to tell the truth." Bullshit! They LIED and they should be immediately held in contempt of congress and spend 30 days in jail - starting right then and there.

Hearing Chairman: This hearing is continued until 30 days hence. The Seargent at Arms will arrest Mr. Holder and take him immediately to the nearest federal penitentiary. His only reading material is to be a copy of the Constitution of the USA.

Mr. Holder: But, but, but,... This is outrageous!

Hearing Chairman: Yes, sir, is outrageous. Seargent at Arms, gag the prisoner until he is out of these chambers.

I also don't subscribe to the "few bad apples" view of cops. There may be only a few who rise to the level of severely injuring or killing people when conditions don't demand it (be they innocent or guilty), and there's no doubt there are lots of cops that attempt to do a good job and actually help people on a regular basis, but I will stand by my statement that every cop is corrupt. I meant to say every and I'll explain why.

The moment a new cop breaks any law, no matter how trivial, he is officially corrupt and has lost the moral authority to impose the law upon others. And the moment a cop arrests another person for a crime he commits himself then he is irredeemable.

Thank you, though, for saying this, "Since they are "entrusted" and have the supposed education [and training] should be held to a much higher standard and be punished more aggressively." I agree with that 100%.

However, schools aren't doing the best job of keeping it out either..

It is interesting that when blacks kill white or even black cops it is racist. Another nail in the coffin of the usa.

Court upholds $9,000 bill for Michigan hiker rescued in White Mountains

http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/16716...

12 year old in Cleveland if I am not mistaken was wielding an "Airsoft" gun that looks VERY, VERY real.

If you think a 12 year old with a gun is harmless, look at all the 9 and 10 year olds in the middle east with AK-47's.

How was the cop supposed to know he was wielding a TOY gun?

I blame the parent in this for not teaching their kids.

I have numerous nieces and nephews all know I have lots of guns of different sizes and types. You can ask ANY of them, what is the first and second rule of guns be it toy or real/

They will tell you in this order.

1) ALWAYS -- ALWAYS assume it is loaded and chambered.
2) NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER pull it out, point it or wave it at ANYONE unless you plan to use it.

And that is after several hours of assembly and disassemble and safe gun handling training with each one of them. All ages from 8 to their late teens.

"Underage." That is up to their parents to patrol not me..
My opinion."

We in an objective civilized society are under no obligation to assist those that do things that ultimately harm themselves. The guy sitting on the curb with a needle sticking out of his arm is his problem not that of societies. And as you point out about those that are killed by the drunk or drugged driver, that now is a crime and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent allowable by law. Likewise people who decide to climb mountains and end up trapped needing rescue should expect to pay for that rescue. The longer we treat adults as wayward children the longer society will need to babysit.

George Carlin has an EXCELLENT solution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0UJJ3f2...

I Have to agree with Woodlema here...I will morn the loss of a cop before I will morn the loss of a thug.

I agree that body cameras on cops should help in these situations...I say should because the cop has to turn it on! From an ongoing case here in my little corner of the left coast.

Saying this...the cop must be punished for killing an innocent person. Giving them a gun does not relieve them of the responsibility of not "over reacting". (the 12 yr old in Cleveland)

There is an interesting correlation between criminals and police, and their degree of worsened behavior. Non-violent criminals who are frequently imprisoned with violent offenders become worse offenders themselves; police who enter the force where they are admired and supported by their community remain ethical, while those who enter force that is under public suspicion and distrust become less trustworthy over time.

The lesson for us is that we should try to encourage a closer relationship between our law enforcement and their community, to prevent their corruption. Likewise, we need to push for drug courts and public service as more desirable restraints on non-violent criminals. The results of these policies will pay off in more trustworthy public servants, and fewer violent criminals.

Taking, I have no problem with, but if you deal to someone underage, that I think is a problem. If you are growing for your own use and have under 1Kg of Marijuana, I don't have a problem with that. Any "manufactured drug" (Coke, Meth, etc.) I have a big problem with. That is a health risk due to inconsistent levels of potency.

You mean under the NEXT president. This one takes the side of the criminal.

Khalling: I used to believe as you did that there's no cost to society from those who harm themselves (e.g., heroin use). But after years of seeing under-25s making trips to the morgue around here (southwest Washington), and killing innocents on the highway, I've changed my mind.
The trouble is that the human brain is not fully formed until the mid to late 20s. Drug exposure to those in that group alters brain chemistry and neural pathways, preventing virtually all hope of recovery and creating a huge cost to society. Unless, of course, as George Bernard Shaw suggested, we just euthanize them out of their misery.

There should be two prison systems in America, one to protect society from dangerous people and another to provide consequences: loss of freedom during a period of teaching and training to those who have failed to live civilly in civil society.
It's crazy that we currently mix the two, creating a laboratory in which the otherwise non-violent are poisoned and turned violent.

In Atlas Shrugged, few people actually went to the gulch. Most stayed in place and quietly gave up. While foreign countries are beginning to see the value of individualism, we in America are witnessing in our infatuation with collectivism our own political, cultural and moral suicide. People ultimately get the government they deserve.

Most certainly any reasonable person would love to see everyone develop reasoning skills, ; however, for those who make a personal choice not to, it is not that I wish ill will on them, I simply, as Roark said to his nemesis, "but I do not think about you" simply meaning that I also will not be losing sleep over the results they receive due to their own poor decision making ability. It is not for me to take away their blankie, it is up to them to decide they do not need or want that blankie.

yes. we agree on this-however, I do not wish ill on troubled people who do no harm to others. I want people to thrive and flourish.

And for that we can thank all those who think they have the right to impose their morality on others. i.e. Liberals.

Prostitution, Gambling, buying beer on Sunday before noon, smoking weed, snorting coke, shooting up heroine, all stuff that I believe has no place in the criminal justice system. As long as they snort, shoot up, get boffed on their time, and do not involve me I do not care one iota.

Were it me I would remove all laws pertaining to drugs, let people take whatever they want in whatever quantities they want, not my business.

Personal injury and when others impact you or I is what the legal system of torts is really for.

I did not see that he was convicted of the assault charge. A prison sentence is almost meaningless. Within the last several years, a judge was sentenced to 23 years in prison for taking kickbacks from the private penitentiary for incarcerations and lengthier sentences. We have more non-violent criminals in jail than any other country in the world. Taking and dealing drugs should not be a crime

And I will mourn the loss of a cop before I will mourn the loss of violent criminals, simply based on their "value" as defined by the Objectivist lexicon.

Also Freddy Gray has record proving he is violent with assault charges as well as a 2 yr prison sentence.

well, I don't see how to vet your stats since there is no official list of citizens killed by police maintained. Even the FBI, who wants such statistics is not compelling local authorities to provide it. On the other hand, officer deaths are at a 50 year low. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/201312...

I have never indicated there are not cases of outrageous, extreme and very wrong police conduct.

Since they are "entrusted" and have the supposed education should be held to a much higher standard and be punished more aggressively.

I will; however, reiterate, that even if you only had 1% of the reported civil rights violations by police actually reported. you are looking at only 28,000 per year vs. the more than 40,000,000 police interactions, arrested, chases with citizens in an official capacity. That is still .0007 errors/bad actors.

And if you even take is a step further of 1/10th of 1% bad cop actions being reported, that brings you stat to .007, or .7% error, or cops doing a job, 99.3% of the time perfectly at risk of death every time they interact.

I will say again, that I have yet to get my Whopper accurate 99.3% of the time.