I, a robust healthy 81 year old who skis and can work construction for a ten hour day have lifetime immunity from measles and chicken pox, German measles and mumps. Had them and got through them, no problem.

This list of vaccines they have added is absurd. Diphtheria and Polio, yes; Small pox if needed due to an outbreak; yes. Otherwise, people should be free to deny these poisons in their bloodstream.

If you want to drink the koolaid propaganda from Big Pharma, inject away!

Other people are not obligated to protect you from your vaccines failure at the expense of the side, or actually. direct effects.

Have you heard of “Measles parties?”

Vaccination is not a switch, it increases your immune system's ability to battle the underlying disease. It's a matter of degree. You don't automatically get a disease simply because your vaccination is less effective with age. You still have some immunity, just less.

And with the majority of the population vaccinated, you are less likely to encounter the disease.

They call it 'herd immunity'. As a significant portion of the population is immunized the odds of encountering the disease goes down so the need for individual immunity lowers. To a degree, those who don't immunize themselves are 'mooching' off of the rest of us.

Yes, fortunately there are some great activists out there that are really shedding light on the Jdubs who deny situations like the one you describe above even happen. I volunteer for the group mentioned above in the link. According to their doctrine that makes me a "mentally diseased apostate". And they call their doctrine "The Truth" which makes your above comment awesome :)

The state senators who brought this Fascist proposal to the Senate should be held on criminal charges.

Can ANYONE ELSE on the planet openly state that "Hey, we should go to Bob & Mary's house, take away their kids, and perform medical procedures on them" with immunity?

Question related to vaccinations... how many adults do you know are up to date on all their vaccinations? You do know that most vaccinations they are finding out do not confer lifetime immunity (if they did immunity for a period of time in that person in the first place). A lot they already know don't, and more are being found out regularly.

So... given that, how many people are "threatening" to everyone else because they're not up to date? And, given that we're not all dying because everyone's out of date, does that raise the question in your mind of the necessity of vaccinations?

That's great that you found a way out. I knew of a woman who died after childbirth because her husband would not allow a blood transfusion. He gave out pamphlets at the hospital where I worked that explained that they felt it was cannibalism.
Anyway, so glad you followed the truth!

Jehovah's Witnesses.. many see them as harmless, but as someone who knows the inner workings, they are anything but. They are on the same level as Scientology and use the exact same control tactics. (see http://aawa.co/) I was referring to their refusing of blood transfusions to the point of death which has had some personal affect on me. My first exposure was in Anthem, which I casually read at about age 14 just because I liked science fiction. Then there was a mention from a friend about Atlas Shrugged which stuck with me later in life. When I finally decided to read it, everything started to make sense. Reading Rand has now become an affirmation of a truth known from birth one has fought for not knowing exactly how to identify it. Well at least that is how I see it.

Of course you should not force people to vaccinate. And of course any public institution or private institution has the right to insure vaccination as part of their entrance requirements. (The public institution because herd immunity protects the community; the private institution because it can set its own rules.) But home schooled kids should be exempt.

Except.

Let's ask the kids too. A baby cannot make any valid decisions about his future - all he can do is drool. But a 14 year old kid can give input in a divorce case as to which parent he wants to live with and a girl who is under 18 can get pregnancy counseling without her parents' knowledge.

So I think that if EITHER the parent or the child want vaccination, then vaccination it is! If BOTH parent and child disdain vaccinations, then the only one who has a right to make them to do this is a group which has entrance requirements and which they freely decide they want to join.

Jan

Ok, Abaco, time to mention it.

If it is an individual's right to determine their own happiness and follow one's own conscience, how can one possibly condone abrogation of First Amendment rights to that effect?

A few notes about the matter.
1) The range of vaccinations is large. Are we talking MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella) and Tetanus, or are we expanding this into HPV and Flu? What about chicken pox? What about HIV or Hepatitis B (STD)? Where does government interference STOP once it gets started? (Answer: it never does. That should be proof enough for ANY Objectivist.)
2) What about the studies that show some of the mandated vaccinations are leading to higher rates of autism? What about other various health conditions that may be unknown at the time of the vaccination that are exacerbated by vaccination? There are other reasons to allow exemptions - not just for conscience reasons.
3) A vaccination does not preclude one from getting that disease, it just preps the body to fight it off more effectively. Vaccinations are huge improvements, but not guarantees.
4) I would be interested to see the rate of incidence of non-vaccinated individuals passing along disease to others. I'm betting this is a molehill issue - not a mountain one as is being portrayed in the media.

I am against ANY kind of government-mandated medical treatment. I voluntarily vaccinated my kids for the basics and would encourage others to do the same, but I will absolutely respect others' decisions and fight for their right to disagree. Until the State can show that the parents are unfit by virtue of abuse or severe neglect (starvation, etc.), they have no say whatsoever in the matter.

"common sense protection from diseases". But, see, these parents count on every one else vaccinating their children, and truth is, if every one else did so, the unvaccinated child would not be at risk
That's assuming that we didn't have unvaccinated illegals streaming across the borders.

Snoogoo, may I ask what was the cult? and how did you come to be exposed to Rand?

NOTHING should be Forced, and that would include vaccinations.

HOWEVER, That ought not relieve the responsibility for the possible effects of not being vaccinated and supposedly infecting another. So then we enter the jungle of legalese!

So then appears the problem of Truth -- we so often don't have it, or often cannot know what IS the truth, especially these days!

There is a lot of misinformation going around about a lack of effectiveness, damages caused, not needed anymore, touted by people claiming to be doctors and scientists adding small amounts of credibility to the claims. Add to that the conspiratorialists having a heyday with the notion of the government pushing unnecessary and harmful injections upon our children and it could seem very rational to some people, and a difficult decision at the least for many others. Make it a law and start rounding up children from their homes and see what happens then.

No surprise. The only other state that would try something like this is Oregon. Even New York isn't this bold.

I would never support forced vaccination. I had all my kids vaccinated and do believe in them. However, not forced. Were the kids at Disney land some of the illegal kids brought into the US? Probably at Disneyland for free too!

not no but HELL NO!

http://tinyurl.com/nonylpp

Just when do individual rights trump individual rights? Given your child is the source of infection of my child, expect a lawsuit if you failed to take appropriate defensive action. Given the vaccine is the source of the damage to or death of my child, expect retribution against the perpetrator. Given the state of the democracy and subjugation of individual rights to government controls, IN THE INTERIM, I favor compulsory vaccinations (with medical exemptions and isolation of infections). -- [Imagine if Walmart were to demand proof of vaccination at its doors?]

If one has any clue as to what Objectivism is all about, one would recognize that "forced" anything is anathema to Rand's philosophy. If she were still around, there are certain parts of Objectivism I could argue with but the use of coercion is certainly not one of them.

My kids are grown. When they were small, there was no question or hesitation about them receiving every disease protection available.
My future ex being a LPN helped--even encouraged the same child health protection outlook my parents had.
Every child deserves common sense protection from diseases.
I cannot comprehend the religious mindset of a parent who would not protect their kids from any given horrendous disease with a vaccination.
I'm a Christian, but I'm not going to handle a rattlesnake to prove it. Or put kids in jeopardy.
Being ordered to dope kids up with stuff like Ritalin is another subject.
Now I draw a line. Not an Obama line. A dino line.

I just can't wrap my head around the notion that some parents don't want to vaccinate their children (except for the ones with allergies, etc.) It seems irrational.

My understanding is that depending on the vaccine in question, they are 50%-90% effective. If it's 75%, it cuts your risk to a quarter around an unvaccinated population but much more in a vaccinated population because of herd immunity.

This is *not* excuse, IMHO, to force people to vaccinate. People who accept the current evidence on vaccines can simply send their kids to a school that requires vaccination.

But if your child is inoculated, there's little to no chance of catching something from a non inoculated child, isn't that so?

I like the idea of respecting the rights of parents at private school not to vaccinate. I prefer my kids go to a school that requires vaccination to enroll because vaccines only reduces the risk of contracting the disease. People benefit from the herd immunity of interacting with an immunized population.

It's possible that one of those unvaccinated kids will infect my kids in a public place. That's a risk of living. Freedom isn't free. Part of liberty, IMHO, is the risk that someone else's choices might incur a cost on my family.

There's a facet to this discussion that almost nobody ever mentions. I have found that many people can't even comprehend it, curiously. I'll mention it later. I enjoy hearing from fellow Objectivists on this application of force. I see it as a major turning point in our history. Thanks for the responses.