we can look to venezuela to see how things go. I say Ayn Rand had it pretty right where she depicted the collapse of the economy and the fanatical acts of the government to stay in power. When the people realize there is a better way, the government will collapse also. The problem is that there needs to be a realization of why socialism didnt work, or we will just get a dictator who promises to "make things better". Its a very scary scenario. check out JERICHO on Netflix if you want to see a good depiction of what would happen after nuclear terrorist attack. Also check out real life Venezuela to see the implosion of socialism.

It's the only tool we have for becoming wealthier.

The spying problem is not a technological problem, it is a moral problem. Governments tracked every little detail about their citizens long before the internet.

at what point do you think the government will back off? my opinion NEVER. That being said there is again in my opinion never going to be a return to the honest businessman doing what he does best. so we are doomed to see the perpetual demise of the country. I have no answer other to say if the people who run the country were to just die off and not be replaced then the welfare state would come to an end since there would no longer be any administrators there might be a chance. just think about what your children are facing for their future, a ball and chain so to speak.

totally agree. if the government stayed out of things, and the federal reserve wasnt around, I think we would grow at some sort of sustainable rate and things would be better for everyone in the long term

There is a problem, in my opinion, and it is government interference via both socialism and corporatism via the banking cartel. Other government interference also plays a part, e.g., the EPA. Government has expanded their role to "promote the general welfare" in ways that are counter productive to that goal, and simultaneously completely abdicated the job to "secure the blessings of liberty."

I would dispute that there is a "problem" needing a solution. The growth rate of the economy is a result of a lot of factors- resources, education, amount of work people want to do, etc. All a person can do is to increase HIS economy through more work, more efficient work, and things like that. The end result of the efforts of all the people in the "economy" will decide how fast the "economy" grows.

The government cant force feed the entire economy in the long term. Whatever it does to prime the pump in the beginning results in a slowdown later to probably a bit less than what it would have been if the government stayed out of it.

I think what caused the last recession was the just-before-that expansion fueled by printed money. People are expecting constant and major economic growth ALL the time. When it doesnt come, the government prints money through the federal reserve to artificially give us the benefits of growth by borrowing on the future. A recession like 2008 happens when the rubber meets the road. Why we feel we HAVE to have all this growth regardless of reality is the problem. Technology is one of the factors, but there are a lot more- availablity of resources, how hard people want to work, their education level, competition from outside sources, etc.

Technology gives us new things to buy, but without the money to buy them, it does no good unless we buy less of something else.

Those windmills are the primary reason why there is a lack of funding for advancement of technology.
I think I understand your (and Thiel's) view of the problem. He gives no real solution. What is your solution?

Freedom:
Good review of major points that are verifiable and quantifiable.

Technological stagnation... while it may be more difficult to pinpoint exactly what-where-when, it is highly probable that this too has occurred. The U.S. has been lagging behind in almost everything for years now. I agree that the Government juggernaut of over-regulation has strangled American businesses which has drastically curtailed their initiative towards funding research, delaying investing in higher/advanced technology and resisting expansion which implies the use of all the above stated.

If we are to see a recovery that is both solid and healthy then, as db states, we must create technological advancements and regain what was once the crowning glory of the U.S.

Um, so I thought of a half-dozen different replies to this, but just settled on this one.

I just recently heard from someone who attended the cyber-security conference last month involving NSA, Secret Service, DIA, etc. His admonition: technology is making us _less_ secure - not more. He said that if you have a social media account - it's been hacked, and not just by the NSA, but by the Russians. Facebook? MySpace? LinkedIn? Gmail? All are insecure.

I don't look at technology itself as being anything more than a tool. And every tool comes with the danger of hitting yourself on the thumb with it - or having someone else hit you over the head with it. Because at the end of every piece of technology is the one wielding it. THAT is my concern: people.

Yes, let's talk about reality. Even if we had no Central bank, but we had the same technology as we had in 1913, then we would be no wealthier. The Fed is a side show - it certainly should not exist, but the Austrians are tipping at windmills.

The loss of capital through government promoted mal-investment (both bankster and socialist driven) is a primary reason. In your field of expertise, government has not done the job of protecting property of inventors either, but bottom line is if you waste your capital to support existing power through war or fraud there is much less capital to promote technology and other rational uses.

Let us look at reality- the USG has been injecting itself for over 100 years into the economy of not only the USA but much of the rest of the world and the end results so far have not been very good, have they(?). The actions taken by the banks have been significantly influenced by the government haven't they (?) So you can talk all day long about Austrians or any other economist but the end result thus far has been inflation to beat the band an increase in poverty to beat the band a decrease in the size of the middle class to beat the band and this is local, what about the vast increase in poverty world wide, and of course there is WAR that destroys to beat the band. All because of the interference of economics by GOVERNMENT. Do you for see any changes to the positive, if so let me know what they are.

While that is true, that explanation misses the point that the only way to increase real per capita incomes is by increasing our level of technology. As a result we need to focus first and foremost on what is keeping new technologies from being created and disseminated.

While that is true, that explanation misses the point that the only way to increase real per capita incomes is by increasing our level of technology. As a result we need to focus first and foremost on what is keeping new technologies from being created and disseminated.

Without the actions of wall street and the banksters in the 90s promoting mal-investments and taking the opposite positions of what they were assuring their customers were prudent investments, there would not have been any runup and collapse of share prices, no runup and collapse of real estate prices, no severe economic recession.
Would there have been a normal pull back based upon market activity? Yes, and some weak businesses would have failed while others prospered. Just the fall off of activity dealing with the millenium bug in software might have caused a mild pull back in economic activity. However, the market would have recovered to stability and there would not have been a devastating loss of investments and retirement funds of millions of people. This was caused by fraudulent promotion of mal-investments that would likely have been used to fund more rational uses including technology.
The government protected and promoted bankster cartel (including wall street) is primarily responsible along with socialist policies of government.

Lack of motion leads to rust. History illustrates this when we contrast Greece and Rome with the Middle Ages. The constant innovative movement which invigorates and changes economies, attitudes, and habits is what keeps humanity growing. If it stops or is made to stop, things will not just even out, things will decline. In our own time, the repressive nature of the Soviet Union led to a lack of progress illustrated by products made in a shoddy manor, 5 year plans that never worked and technology that only existed through stealing it from others.

Yes, but what is it about the government that caused the recession? Thiel's point is that the recession is more a symptom of slowing technological growth than any of these other explanations. For instance, the Austrian's favorite - it was the Fed's fault. Perhaps it contributed, but the lack of technological growth is the real important issue in the long run.

The last recession was caused simply by too much government. The housing crisis was caused by governmental coercion of lenders to approve questionable loans and the government's housing authority then buying those loans. Add to that all the corporate bailouts of entities such as GE and GM as well as several large banking conglomerates, and you get a huge transfer of wealth from the private sector to cronies.

And the greatest collapse hasn't even happened yet.

I head a point made during a discussion of "totally free unregulated market" and that causes an entire industry to thrive.

I never thought of it before, but "Religion" is a totally free unregulated market, that thrives, and continues to expand in the USA as opposed to Europe, and that is due to lack of Government.

Britain still promoted the Church of England, and the government is well invested into religion and over the years religion is losing year after and over year.

We cannot count Isis and Muslims because that is join or die.

But in the USA Religion continues to expand with more and more churches, and more and more people joining one religion or another, or Atheist groups, or Agnostic groups. All because Government for the most part is totally out of the "God" business.


Want to KILL religion, get Government to Regulate and Promote a State Run Religion. Oh that's right the 1st Amendment would have to be wiped out for that.

WOULD YOU BELIEVE THE ONE AND ONLY UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT!

I might have said more, but I was basically done with the book when I picked up Thiel's.

In fact, I think you referenced Thiel's book in your book as I remember, Dale. Thiel contributed $500 K to the Seasteading Institute, an organization that could make a physical Gulch a reality.

No, but if you read his book Zero to One you will see many similarities to my new non-fiction book Source of Economic Growth. As a result I have thought about approaching him for some support once my book is published. He is also a fan of Rand.

I think that under funding of inventors is a huge part of the slow down in the US economy. Why they are not being funded includes many changes to our patent laws, but also changes in our securities laws, changes in our accounting rules, and just over regulations and taxation generally.