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What if instead of Dagny...?

Posted by j_IR1776wg 4 years, 7 months ago to Philosophy
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What if instead of Dagny, Nancy Pelosi had been flying that plane? Would John have brought her to his home? What if Al Sharpton was her passenger? Would he have hit up Midas for a bribe to keep the Gulch a secret? What would the Strikers have done?


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  • Posted by  $  JCLanier 4 years, 7 months ago
    In crashing, Dagny had no idea where she was...

    Many of the Gulch organizers knew Dagny and she was "on their list " of recruits... This is the only plausible reason she was allowed and welcomed into their center.

    I would imagine anyone else "crashing" into the Gulch, a life and death matter, if they survived, could easily be put on a plane and flown out, blindfolded (like Dagny on her way out). That should work. Fine.
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    • Posted by JeffG 4 years, 7 months ago
      I had the pleasure of doing the Beech 18 flying for the movie and can attest, I'd fly those two out of the Gulch and "drop" them off at any Obamacare facility of their choice. I never mentioned landing... or parachutes... guess they should have read my plan before signing it.
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  • Posted by  $  blarman 4 years, 7 months ago
    It's actually pretty simple. Galt would have told them that the only people allowed to stay in the Gulch were those willing to work. They would have balked at that and asked to be taken out. With nothing of value to offer in exchange for a ride to the outside, etc., they would have been left to themselves. Utterly to themselves.

    No one in the Gulch would have needed to initiate force. All they had to do was...

    Nothing.

    Until it came time to clean up the bodies, of course.
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    • Posted by  $  Temlakos 4 years, 7 months ago
      That would have been a security breach. Galt would have had little choice: hold them prisoner-of-war, at menial labor.
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      • Posted by  $  blarman 4 years, 7 months ago
        I would remind you that Dagny's act was also a security breach. The difference was that she had something to offer to the members of the Gulch - the products of her mind.

        Now one can argue that it was an initiation of force to breach the barrier in the first place, but I find that to be pretty flimsy reasoning to justify what essentially boils down to slavery.

        Here's another option: set them to work on one of Ragnar's ships as a deck hand. They'll either go mad watching their own products destroyed before their eyes, or they'll be forced to confront their own laziness.
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        • Posted by  $  Temlakos 4 years, 7 months ago
          The essential difference between the two cases is: Dagny would never have ratted the Gulch out. Pelosi would have.
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          • Posted by  $  blarman 4 years, 7 months ago
            Agreed - but only if she could make it out on her own power. Therein lies the entire solution. For the pampered elitists like Pelosi, it's unlikely she could do anything without her aides and hangers-on.

            And for an added measure of protection, one could always set up a trip-wire at the exit. If they manage to make it that far, you could take other steps. I'm sure that Dr. Hendricks could slip a little something into their drinking water that would reduce them to babbling idiots. Oh, wait - to unintelligible, babbling idiots. ;)
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            • Posted by  $  Temlakos 4 years, 7 months ago
              Now that would be interesting.

              Midas Mulligan never did mention exactly how he camouflaged the northern, downstream road, the one that follows the Uncompahgre River out of the mountains. Midas had cut off the Million Dollar Highway, that approached the valley from the south. Now maybe he turned the northern road into a maze.

              Still...actually, the only reason Dagny became a problem was that she was brave, or reckless, enough to descend to Flight Level Zero Zero Eight Point Seven. I wonder whether even a USAF pilot would have been brave enough to make such a descent. And I certainly wouldn't expect him to be following John Galt's plane.
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  • Posted by  $  richrobinson 4 years, 7 months ago
    I apologize for not taking your question more seriously. My first thought was that in order to get to the point where Dagney was chasing Galt she had to use intelligence, cunning, fortitude and determination. These are the qualities Dagney possesses. They are the qualities that Nancy Pelosi taxes. I can't concieve of her ever being in that position.
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  • Posted by  $  rockymountainpirate 4 years, 7 months ago
    Shot them. They are both to dumb to live.
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    • Posted by 4 years, 7 months ago
      Sorry RMP that's a contradiction Galt's principles - namely the initiation of physical force.
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      • Posted by  $  rockymountainpirate 4 years, 7 months ago
        I disagree. Remember Galt's rescue. If they came uninvited to the Gulch they could not be allowed to leave, so as they aren't producers they would have to mooch off tge residents. What would you do with them.
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        • Posted by 4 years, 7 months ago
          Dagny shot the guard to save John from the physical violence being visited upon him and she had a moral right to do so. I honestly don't know what I would have done about their intrusion. That's partly why I asked the question. It needs to be answered well before a Gulch is created.
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        • Posted by  $  Temlakos 4 years, 7 months ago
          Prisoners of war are in a different category.

          Set them to menial labor under close supervision. If it was good enough for a few square-pegs-in-round-holes who had to get jobs as linemen and so on, then it should be good enough for Nancy Pelosi.
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          • Posted by  $  JCLanier 4 years, 7 months ago
            Temlakos: I'm not so sure I could sleep with Pelosi in the Gulch weaving her webs of deceit. And yes, as you stated, if she was ever released (without having a lobotomy) she would certainly rat out everyone. So, either she's flown out before she even begins to know where she is or she occupies the first place in the Gulch cemetery.
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            • Posted by  $  Temlakos 4 years, 7 months ago
              Sadly, Rand never once addressed the question of the security of a rebel movement when an Imperial agent compromises their location.

              Now maybe Dr. Hendrix, the neurosurgeon, could induce a coma, confine her to bed, and feed her intravenously. But it would be a lot more expedient to set her at some kind of labor.

              If I were a Gulch resident, I would not only offer myself as her guard and warden, but would apply for the position, and argue loudly before the Committee of Safety that (a) she needs to hear from one of the "unpersons" who landed in the Gulch because she and her fellow looters left me with no opportunity, and (b) I'm the one to give her an earful. That, of course, would be the string on her living under my roof: that she would have to listen to me.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 4 years, 7 months ago
    Somewhat in line to your question, I can say that I worked in the Pentagon shortly after the plane hit, so the subject was fresh in everyone's minds. While there, one often sees white top-colored helo's carrying VIPs, including Marine 1. So, as one's imagination runs wild, I've asked myself as to what would I have done had I seen a Marine 1 go down in similar circumstances. On the one hand, I felt a duty to do what I could; on the other hand I have a family that expects me home. Well, after much deliberation, I decided that I would risk my life and try to pull the pilot out.
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  • Posted by floreo 4 years, 7 months ago
    Nancy would have never been flying the plane. She would have had a government paid pilot!
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    • Posted by  $  Temlakos 4 years, 7 months ago
      But it's still a question: what would you do with her? And what would you do with the pilot?

      I say turn the pilot over to Ragnar Danneskjöld for interrogation. That ought to be an interesting psychodrama. The two men would have spoken close to the same language. The pilot would have been more likely to "turn."
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  • Posted by katrinam41 4 years, 7 months ago
    Maybe they would not survive the crash... with a little help... then the plane would have been relocated far away and burned... never thought I'd ever be so bloodthirsty, but times change and these are very dangerous times.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 4 years, 7 months ago
    I would blindfold them then throw them back in the plane. Fly them to Tunguska Siberia with each a tomahawk and matches. At least this would be slightly more humane. At least the mosquitoes and hungry flies would something new on their menu.
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  • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
    Now that's not just Fantasy Fiction that's a F''n nightmare. Not to worry By the time Pelosillyni demanded and got a full time USAF jet her only thought would be harvesting what ever else is growing on that taxpayer funded grape farm of hers in the Napa Valley. Nancy and Al? Only if he was investing in Jiffy Lube franchises. The third answer is LTAO. Had me going there for a while.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 4 years, 7 months ago
    had it been Nancy, the wicked witch of the west,
    they would have fixed her plane, speaking in some
    code among one another, and sent her packing
    post-haste. . . and used the Men-In-Black eraser
    on her at the last minute. -- j

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  • Posted by term2 4 years, 7 months ago
    No worries. Nancy pelosi wouldnt have gotten it off the ground in the first place. Interesting thought though.
    She would have to be given some sort of memory losing drug and taken back to her moocher-land. Could be allowed to turn over atlantis to the moochers. She gave up her human rights by doing the things that she has done, so the question is just a practical one- how to protect the residents of the gulch.
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    • Posted by 4 years, 7 months ago
      Yes is it possible to hide a Gulch in the real world?
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      • Posted by term2 4 years, 7 months ago
        I think ONLY a virtual gulch can exist today in an NSA populated world.Like minded people can hide in plain sight and trade with each other to the exclusion of trading with others where possible. Given the communication technology of today, I think THAT IS possible. To the extent a large enough group could electronically communicate and trade, one would not need to rely on the paper dollars as much. ALONGSIDE NIGHT is a good book to see how this might work. Groups of "guard gated" communities of maybe 10 like-minded families could exist without garnering a lot of attention.
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        • Posted by 4 years, 7 months ago
          Your point is well taken. The larger the population of a Gulch, the more likely the possibility of disclosure.
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          • Posted by term2 4 years, 7 months ago
            It would be sort of a cult, and we see how that works out for the mormons, branch dividians, etc. We have religious freedom in name, but if its not mainstream religion or close to it, there are issues. I just dont get it why the mormons were so persecuted for polygamy. Who cares really....
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 4 years, 7 months ago
    We are talking about pigs in the novel, Animal Farm. In this case, pigs who can fly.
    Let some of the Gulch livestock be what they eat.
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  • Posted by  $  Temlakos 4 years, 7 months ago
    He would have made them prisoners of war.

    But that assumes Nancy Pelosi would have had the skill actually to fly an aircraft.

    Now I suppose you really want to ask: how if a USAF pilot, assigned to the 89th Airlift Wing, had been at the controls of what would have been a C37, with Nancy Pelosi as a passenger?

    My guess: he would have held both as POWs. The pilot he would have turned over to Ragnar Danneskjöld for interrogation. Because Ragnar would have known exactly what psychological buttons to push, to "turn" that pilot. That would have been quite a psychodrama right there.

    Less interesting would have been the interrogation of Pelosi, by Midas Mulligan, the owner of the valley. Or by Galt himself. It would have been the reverse of the session between John Galt and "Mister Thompson" in the penthouse suite of the Wayne-Falkland Hotel. And I'm not sure at all that Galt would have succeeded in changing her mind.

    He therefore would have had no choice but to keep her firmly and closely imprisoned and guarded until the collapse came. And then turned her loose, saying, "Behold the world you created. And if you know what's good for you, just stay out of our way until we can bring order out of this chaos."
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  • Posted by Snoogoo 4 years, 7 months ago
    The person actually flying the plane would have ejected them into space. Then said person would have landed the plane and lived happily ever after. The End.
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    • Posted by 4 years, 7 months ago
      You mean Nancy can't fly a plane? :-)
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      • Posted by Snoogoo 4 years, 7 months ago
        Nope, not in reality OR in this fantasy alternate reality. Also they may or may not have had parachutes. That's my story and I'm sticking to it :) I see the point however to your question. The Gulch had a cloaking device to keep it hidden from enemies, Dagny only found it because she was seeking it out. The only reason a looter would seek out the Gulch would be to destroy it and enslave its citizens.
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        • Posted by 4 years, 7 months ago
          Dagny found the Gulch because she was chasing another plane and couldn't pull up in time. You are correct in that I am being serious. Some Gulchers are talking about a real Gulch here on earth and I'm wondering how it possibly be kept secret. Even in AS, sooner or later someone would have blundered in who wasn't so friendly to the productive men of the mind.
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          • Posted by Snoogoo 4 years, 7 months ago
            She was chasing the plane trying to find JG so I worded that wrong, obviously she didn't know the gulch existed at that point. And yes it would be possible to stumble upon. First, they would need to state their case on why they are there, then just escort them out, blindfolded and deposit them safely as far away as possible.. Seems rational right?
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