Credit Card Transactions and market progress

Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 8 months ago to Business
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What do you think? Is Chip&Pin the right way to go or should we skip and go to encrypted?

I'm in IT, so I'm kind of biased and would like to hear others' arguments.
SOURCE URL: http://fortune.com/2015/03/03/retailers-face-8-65-billion-bill-for-new-generation-of-credit-cards/


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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 8 months ago
    I usually pay cash to save the merchants the fees. None of the particpants (merchants, customers, carnd companies) for using the system. I use it sometimes. But cash works, and I don't see a compelling reason to send 2% and change of the transaction to the banks. It sounds like the expensive cards may make that cost increase.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 8 months ago
      I agree. And what is interesting is that a psychological study was done comparing the effects on the brain of those who use cash vs those who use credit cards. Those who used cash "felt" the effects of their purchases more keenly: they were more aware of the money they were spending and what it represented in terms of labor and effort and savings. Thus they were significantly less likely to overspend. Those who used credit cards were far less likely to feel the effects of their purchases and therefore far less likely to control their spending.

      I'm like you - I use cash whenever possible, saving my CC for gas (pay-at-the-pump is so handy) and large purchases. And I pay off my CC bill in full every month. And I only have one CC - which has low interest rates, no fees for use, and pays me cash back for using it.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 8 months ago
        I do the same thing. The gas CC is handy for gas. USAA's pays a 5% cash rebate on gas.

        Some part of my reptilian brain, though, has an easier time equating work with bills than with numbers on a page. When I give them to my car repair shop, I instinctively think about the work I had to do to earn them. And the shop owner seems to feel a more instinctual trade of value than if I swiped a card and 97% of it went into a bank account at the end of the week.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 8 months ago
    Once again, productive businesses are forced to pay to protect the banksters profitablility.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 8 months ago
      The alternative is continued exposure of their clients private financial data to identity thieves. I think this one qualifies as a cost of doing business.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 8 months ago
        Then the cost should be borne by the banksters, not the merchants.
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        • Posted by $ 9 years, 8 months ago
          The problem with that argument is that the banks don't face any liability for the problem. And it isn't their systems which are getting hacked. According to law, it is the credit card companies that currently foot the bill for fraudulent purchases, but if you recall from the recent debacles with Home Depot and Target, they also suffered MASSIVE consumer backlash when their systems were hacked and consumer financial information was exposed.

          What should also be noted that according to this article, those businesses who don't upgrade their systems are assuming liability for fraudulent purchases rather than the CC companies. If I were the owner of the business, I think it would be a pretty tough sell to make me want to shoulder that liability.
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          • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 8 months ago
            No argument on legality, blarman. The banksters who created the business (in order to create more debt throughout the economy using legal tender created from nothing) managed to lay off that liability (on to people stupid enough to trust banksters) by spinning off VISA and Mastercard in recent years. So the new companies must dump the liability and the cost on the merchants who are not at fault for the shortcomings of the card companies falling behind technology of thieves. Merchants who can (Walmart et al) will pass the cost to customers. Small business retailers will again bear the cost and unemployment will rise in reality if not in government reports. The banksters are still on the hook for defaulting accounts, but of course that gets passed on to taxpayers in the next crash.
            Looks like an opportunity for a different payment system, but only banksters can print legal tender as needed.
            The system would never have been created without the federal reserve (aka financial slavery) act,
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            • Posted by $ 9 years, 8 months ago
              When we use cash, we are using legal tender notes that imply value that can be redeemed from a central source that anyone accepts. But the banks don't issue those notes, the Federal Reserve does. Ultimately, we trade in those notes because we have the expectation that they are worth something and redeemable. (We will just brush aside the fact that it's all fiat currency/funny money for the moment.)

              Now what happens if we don't have the cash on hand for a purchase? If we take out a loan from the bank, the bank gives us cash, but no one else with whom we do business has any knowledge of that arrangement - they don't care and don't need to because the cash has actual value (perceptual as it may be right now).

              In absence of a bank loan, it used to be that we could amass "credit" with individual stores who would assess our means, our reputation, and our needs and individually manage our line of credit, and each line of credit would apply to only that business. If a new business entered the market, we would have to individually apply for credit with that store and this application would usually be contingent on the development of a business relationship. Those individual stores were liable for the results of default on payment.

              In our modern era, we have a pseudo-financial entity known as a credit card company that offers to assume the task of micro-managing credit requests emanating from consumers and partially shield businesses from liability while guaranteeing them payment for purchased items in exchange for monthly or transactional fees. Part of that business relationship also includes the equipment. The business doesn't have to do business with any given credit organization if they so choose. The exchange is that they lose out on the customers that depend on that service with which to do business. To me it's pretty simple.

              But that also assumes a perfect business world and - as you so accurately point out - doesn't include the effects of government, which just throws a monkey wrench in the whole works by distorting things. You are 100% correct in noting that the currency manipulation by the Federal Reserve results in inflated prices, devaluation of debt, and the encouragement to consumers to take on debt. You are also correct in noting that the Federal Government has taken upon itself to further distort the market by "bailing out" banks and other financial institutions for their bad investment decisions and placing manipulative regulations upon the credit card companies. These effects encourage inefficient and overly-risky decision-making.

              Would the size of the credit market be as big as it is without the distortions of the Federal Reserve and government policy? I agree with you that they would not. But I still see a role for the credit industry - absent government manipulation - as a service.
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              • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 8 months ago
                "But I still see a role for the credit industry - absent government manipulation - as a service."

                Agreed. Financed with private funds, not "legal tender" created from nothing to benefit the banking cartel and stealing from everyone else.

                As you mentioned, individual stores did this function to benefit their sales, and they took the risk of bad debts. That was a function of free market without government monopoly interference. It is hard to overstate the ill effects that the bankster credit monster has had in encouraging bad investments of scarce capital while lining the pockets of the banking cartel and corrupting government.
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                • Posted by $ 9 years, 8 months ago
                  I agree. The centralized banking system known as the Federal Reserve should not be in charge of the monetary system, and individual banks and credit lenders should be responsible for their own choices in the market.
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