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What will you sacrifice to Shrug?

Posted by $ Technocracy 5 years, 9 months ago to Culture
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We have had a few discussions and even some planning on creating one or more Gulches for ourselves.

The undiscussed side of this is a basic issue....Technology.
A high technology lifestyle requires a high technology infrastructure and technology base.

Most if not all of us would not be looking for subsistence living without all the conveniences we are used to, but we would sacrifice some of them.

What will you give up?

Modern plumbing?
Running Water?
24/7 unlimited electricity?
Modern communications?
Amazon?

Atlas shrugged was a novel projecting from the technology base of the 40s and early 50s.

What time period would you be willing to roll back to in your gulch?

Keeping in mind the infrastructure needed to support it


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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 5 years, 8 months ago
    If there is a Midas Mulligan with a huge bankroll, I could be be the Purchasing Agent for the infrastructure components and deliver all the items aboard my Q-Ship to Pitcarin Isl. Then all is needed is the crew and some basic earthmoving equipment. Any Amazon orders could be done aboard ship via satelite out at away from the island. Then delivered to the island via stealth drone. If I say so myself, this is turning into a pretty good story.
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  • Posted by Matcha 5 years, 8 months ago
    You don't give up anything until you have to. Many of us have already left. You just find a better place to go. Maybe you want a place with no property taxes. One you can afford, with water and land that will grow enough food to feed you. Maybe it's not perfect but it's better. Don't wait. Have something planned. Maybe you can start a Gulch. The people in the Gulch were hiding and going back. It might be hard to do what's being discussed, like buying an island, maybe not. Just get a group to locate in the same area. That's what I did and it's great.
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  • Posted by fatkinson 5 years, 8 months ago
    I'd give up Amazon in a minute.
    But I wouldn't have to give up water because I am sure that among those brilliant people in the Gulch that there would be great minds that would be able to create a water system.
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  • Posted by borzoilady 5 years, 8 months ago
    I personally grew up in the fifties and although we had all the modern conveniences of that time I could easily give up all of it now. I live on a small farm and have a backup hand pump well and a woodstove with 5 acres of woods and although I like all the technology I could easily give it up immediately if it would possible to live in a world without altruism and politicians and lawyers! My only problem would be to find food for my animals without a "grain store" nearby.
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  • Posted by ssnyh 5 years, 8 months ago
    Now that the authorities have the internet, a great deal of technology will be sacrificed for us, whether it's intended or not. That's the nature of the consumption beast. Eventually, though, the only thing left for it to consume will be itself. I hope I'm in the right state of mind to consider how to live when money has no more value.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 5 years, 9 months ago
    We don't do sacrifice. What is the matter with you? :)

    You don't roll back to less capable technology and times. That would be insane. The tech of today is what enables a high quality gulch to be remotely possible.
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    • Posted by Bowzerbird 5 years, 8 months ago
      If we have an EMP All tech of today will be useless. It will be fried. No modern cars even Will function. I'll keep my 1986 Forerunner. Good luck.
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      • Posted by $ sjatkins 5 years, 8 months ago
        That is not technically so. It would be very difficult to nuke all tech. It is not that hard to guard tech caches against such.

        Personally, I doubt very much I would want to live in a world without today's technology. To have to do that would in fact mean billions of human fatalities quite quickly. I would prefer forward positive visioning and efforts rather than such dark visions much less thinking perhaps it is "needed".
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  • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
    One way to do a Gulch would be to do it guerrilla style- never large enough to be noticed and attacked. Maybe a few families ( I would have to think about just how many is practical) in each mini Gulch, all interconnected by technology. Trading could be done primarily among Gulch members. We would give up economies of scale in exchange for the safety of living free in plain sight. I think interconnecting technology could link together the people in these mini Gulches- quietly. Think about it. Might be the only way these days.
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    • Posted by blackswan 5 years, 9 months ago
      Don't forget that technology is rendering economies of scale moot.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 9 months ago
        Uh, can you give an example of that? The whole point of mass production is to reduce the amount of overhead (a fixed cost) incrementally assigned to each unit by pumping out more units in a given amount of time. If you're going where I think you're going (3D printing), you're not pumping out the units, you're focusing on customization and incurring higher overhead costs in the process.
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  • Posted by flanap 5 years, 9 months ago
    Shrugging sounds good; however, the problem is that you cannot run away from the biggest problem which is ourselves. We are evil, corrupt and up to no-damn-good all the time, so how will you deal with that in the Gulch?
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    • Posted by $ winterwind 5 years, 9 months ago
      what?!? It was Ayn Rand who showed me that my belief that man is inherently good was correct. She showed me examples and situations to prove it. I have seen it to be true in life.
      Yes, we can make choices that have evil or destructive results. Yes, people can be warped by their experiences and follow paths that also lead to evil choices. Almost everyone has a breaking point [remember the trailer?] at which the lesser of 2 evils seems to be the only choice.

      But man is "evil and corrupt and no-damn-good" inherently, all the time, every single one? NO.
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    • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
      Man is a social animal and always has been. We have always gathered together for social interaction and mutual protection.

      Every single person is an amalgam of both good and bad impulses. One of the purposes of a social group or society regardless of size is to define rules for the group.

      At base you have to deal with problems yourself. If your group is part of a larger society you can also use that society's rules to deal with the problem as well.
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