Suggestion: after a month, you must become a producer or leave the Gulch.
Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 2 months ago to The Gulch: General
It would be beneficial for a newcomer to have some time to determine if they want to be in the Gulch, but in order to stay, they should be willing to pay the yearly fee.
I would like to hear if this is a good idea or not, and why
I would like to hear if this is a good idea or not, and why
The devil is in the details.
One of the first comments I made when joining the board was to a non-member who wanted to know if they would be welcomed if they failed to upgrade. My position then, and is now, if you are interested in an occasional exclusive look into Ayn Rand’s personal experience or you want to take part in an occasional group objectivist lecture or meet an online guest, then upgrading is for you. Some of the things that I have had a chance to see or take part in as a paying member have been interesting. I don’t believe anyone should feel compelled to contribute or join. This is a very welcoming site. I would like to see it remain so.
Although, I would like to see less contributions and insults from those who just don’t like Ayn Rand. It’s one thing for an online community to ‘hold your hand’ because you are bored and lonely, and quite another thing to hold your hand while you are taxing our patience and insulting our values.
It’s not hard; it can be done. I’m not an Objectivist and probably never will be, but I have many online friends here who treat me very well and I upgraded for my own selfish pleasure.
So, no thank-you. I do not like your idea.
Our conclusions after driving quite a distance to see opening night of each part was that they'd greatly disappoint anyone familiar with the book & cause those unfamiliar with the book to run away in shocked horror.
:-)
Edit: clarity and spelling
I voluntarily pay the "producer" fee, once a year, to make it simple, because I dislike vehemently the "free" ride that actually someone else pays. I do not know who covers the bulk of the costs of running the Gulch, but I suspect it is the true producer of the AS movies. If I can save him pennies so that he can put together a production of an AS TV series, I am more than glad to do it.
I enjoy the Gulch, except for devious trolls who come here to expound half baked ideas and theories, sometime to a point very close to dishonesty. For the part that I enjoy, the fee is a low price.
Just my opinions.
(Disclaimer: I am not a 'producer'. I am a striker to the extent that is possible.)
Honestly, either viewing with my first cup of coffee in hand in the morning (like now, and not my wits quite about me yet) or on the fly across the day, didn't think about overhead. Will be $-ing on in fairly short order.
I appreciate the value of the information I have received from Galt's Gulch over the past 2+ years, and the value of the time invested by the founders and contributors. But I had to grow into that. If I had been hit with a fee earlier on, I wouldn't have come back.
Someone who contributes to the conversation? Someone who posts the initial topic? Someone who only by benefit of having money provides cash?
There are many levels of production, but keep in mind paying a fee is NOT producing. That is trading value for value.
The money I earn from my job and the activities I perform is what I produce. The product of my labor is the cash and satisfaction I receive.
The product of my labor, "money." is what I pay for the "product" of someone else's labor, therefore, whoever is the "producer" of this forum, is the one who has the ONLY right to determine what he/she/them should receive as compensation for the value they provide in maintaining this forum.
If they decided to charge a monthly subscription, they would certainly find out what the market will bear. then those who complain about a fee, are free to NOT stay and keep their money, or freely trade the product of their labor for the value they seem to want.
Just my two cents.
I admit to having a "free" account for the moment. I will change that at the earliest financial opportunity.
:-)
We could make this a really exclusive club...of dwindling numbers. One of the great things about this list is that it has - due to the movies produced! - become a general venue for free thought.
It still delights me that because the AS movies were made a real world AS movement has gained momentum.
Jan
That said, I frankly haven't seen that there are any real benefits to being a paid member. Maybe I'm missing out on things and just don't know about them. To me the only value I've gained by being a paid member is that the site continues.
But I agree; my primary reason is value for value and the continuation of the site.
I have never - NEVER - regretted being a producer here. Even if I don't show up on occasions (and yes, I have vanished for a while), this is *home* for me, and to support that which supports my beliefs and values is a no-brainer to yours truly.
I've noticed that some of the problems from non-payers has been the numbers of non-Objectivist postings. I don't look at the site as a news summary site, though I appreciate those posts of news items that relate negatively or positively to Objectivist thinking. I've also noticed a comment 'bombing' from those trying to drive their point totals up.
I don't agree with a pay to stay, but I like incentive/dis-incentives.
I have resisted doing the "producer" thing. It sounded a bit corny, and I couldnt figure out what I got by being one that would mean something to me. I can tell you that I enjoy the articles that are posted here, and commenting on them and receiving replies (very important) from like minded people who actually think. When I was at Stanford we had a objectivist club meetings where people could discuss ideas- I miss that now, since the best we get is Fox News (which isnt that great really), and misguided nonsense from the governmental powers that be. I have pretty much given up on Atlas Shrugged convincing enough people to scale back government that it would actually happen in my lifetime. BUT, I do want to live the rest of my life in a Galts Gulch environment to the extent possible. Maybe that involves a dude ranch or something where its run by sane people who understand freedom and guests come to have some time away from the craziness of socialism. I dont know. I am starved to have better interactions with people than I get now. I am tired of all this socialism, money debasing, and having to be concerned about how to evade (basically) as much governmental control as I can.
cent per hour. If that
Not having to see ads makes this forum superior and worth the club dues, so to speak. I pay dues on several other sites, like FreeThoughtBlogs and http://dictionary.com, to avoid being targeted by ads. Ads disrupt my concentration and clutter up the place, wasting my time and eating up bandwidth. I am not categorically opposed to entrepreneurs trying to get my business. I just don't want them trespassing in my intellectual spaces.
There have been many conversations here by disruptive individuals, and while banishing them would be a relief, it helps the rest of us to see first-hand what we are up against in the world, and maybe to improve our persuasive powers to get rational ideas into the main culture.
The logical way to reduce the trolls or excessively hostile participants, I think, is to make visible the names of all upvotes and downvotes, the way Facebook does.
Each individual is unique in life experiences and internalized values. A decent respect for other individuals would make us withhold instant judgment and not take an all-or-nothing approach at the slightest nuance of disagreement and condemn the other person as evil. Judge and be judged, yes, but get the whole story, all the evidence, before passing sentence. People do learn, and people can change their minds.
Anyone engaging in reasonable, civil exchanges of ideas and open to intelligently considering others' views contributes value. Name-calling and emotional tirades are not productive. But then, that's the admins' task to keep a bouncer at the door.
My $0.02 suggests that the policy of not allowing 'members' to upvote until they reach 100 posts has had the desirable effect of determining who actually want to participate and cull most of the deadwood.
I'll lay my head on the block and say: If the owners of the board do not value my contribution they are *100%* within their rights to delete my account! I hope they won't.
OK the hard one abortion.
The first two trimesters is a fetus. At some point it becomes developed enough to be he or she and at another point if a preemy has a better than fifty fifty chance of living if delivered and subsequently living a productive life. Fetus becomes Viable. At that point I draw the line because viable means the developing infant, unable to care for itself, is a citizen of the country and like any citizen deserves protection - cannot be executed without due process. At that point taking the life of the citizen as with any citizen is different than fetal abortion. Where ever that line is drawn. If not protected by the civil rights we, or at least we used to, enjoy it's straight up murder. End of conversation.
thou shall not commit murder is the proper quote. Not thou shalt not kill. "To paraphrase ....god gave to the State the right to take human life in defense of the nation and....a number of other permissables.... Absent that sanction it's a crime. I stray into religion there but most monotheistic religions are big on protecting children.
That is my own opinion after much thought and application of a moral philosophy and the application was more the product of reason and application of the entire Constitution than, for example religious teachings.
What I find particularly barbaric is killing the new citizen at the moment, the second of birth and in a particularly brutal way which makes the reported Chinese use of a soft spot needle of formaldehyde far more acceptable.
To the point once the initial line of viable was crossed the so called late term abortion, absent any acceptable medical reason which does not include fitting into a prom dress, should garner the doer's family with a bill for the bullet.
Bluntly put. Works for me it's not everyone's solution nor should it be.
The remainder of the reasoning is fairly common but I also help support two orphanages in my present community and pay education tuition for two preparatory students and one university student.
To the extent I am able to do so.
Your answer for your own self cannot come from anywhere but your own evaluation and your own morals, values, and standards. No one else can do it for you. Not a village and certainly not a government. From individual free choice.
Whatever your belief system from wherever it is derived Moral Philosophy properly applied will serve to support that which is valid or cause change that which isn't. Instead of follow the leader you become your own leader.
One last comment. Why is it only the woman's right to choose? And if so why should the man pay the costs? Difference between a true relationship or marriage or what term you use and a momentary convenient excuse. Some one else can rocket science that question.
End of opinion on a difficult subject.
--Because it's her body in which the growth is happening.
Who owns your body? You or the State, the MDeities?
Only three things in life are certain and all have a common factor. Birth, Life, and Death. One per customer.
:-)
Is that your opinion, or quoting someone else, ? If 'tis yours, what causes you to believe that god gave to the State the right to take human life in defense of the nation and....a number of other permissables.... ?
Thank you.
participants in this online neighborhood, so I would
vote NO to your question, Mamaemma. . I wanted
to support the Gulch and the movie, but I'm retired
and comfortable. . some must pinch every penny
and I want them here, too!!! -- j
Another reason I hesitate to pay is that every week or so, somebody proposes to tighten the rules in a way that would force me out. I don't need that. Both official Objectivism and libertarian clubs do too much of that already, which is probably why they aren't growing. This movement needs "big tent" forums, and for now this is the best. Let's try to keep it that way.
a supporter of Objectivism many years. I have been signing in and typing on this library computer.
I did not know about having to send money any-
where to use this site. I do not know where to send
the money order and it would, for me, depend on
the amount. In any case, I do not send money
over the Internet, to any one, at any time, for
any cause or reason whatever. Some organi-
zations have wanted me to contribute to causes,
and when I have requested a "snail mail" ad-
dress, have failed to provide me with one. And
that's their fault, not mine.
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