I believe you concern is with a mechanism for weeding out people who are not generally interested in reason and objectism - in other words they are here to disrupt. While this might be such a solution, it would also make it harder for people who are just coming to Rand and objectivism to learn without the pressure of immediately having to be an expert. I know k sees this as the great advantage of this site over other objectist sites and generally that is k's mission.

Perhaps one should be offered the option to become a producer by contributing content--cut and pastes don't count! However, that will not pay for the bandwidth and the cost of maintaining this account.

I admit to having a "free" account for the moment. I will change that at the earliest financial opportunity.

What I really like about Susanne and woodlema's comments is that they remind me that if I feel guilty about another person's choice then I am subscribing to the mentality that Rearden's family used to enslave him. Thank you! I have learned something.

Mamaenma, you did not "make" anyone leave. as Susanne points out they stay or leave at their own free will and free choice. Numerous people have made comments on my posts, that I guess some would take offense to, whine cry and say boo hoo they offended me, but I do not simply because their view is their view and everyone is completely entitled to their view. If you cannot take the heat get out of the kitchen. Again your own personal free will, will determine that.

Free will, and individual choice is one of the hallmarks of objectivism, provided that choice is made by reason.

Outstanding point. I guess first you need to define, "producer."

Someone who contributes to the conversation? Someone who posts the initial topic? Someone who only by benefit of having money provides cash?
There are many levels of production, but keep in mind paying a fee is NOT producing. That is trading value for value.

The money I earn from my job and the activities I perform is what I produce. The product of my labor is the cash and satisfaction I receive.

The product of my labor, "money." is what I pay for the "product" of someone else's labor, therefore, whoever is the "producer" of this forum, is the one who has the ONLY right to determine what he/she/them should receive as compensation for the value they provide in maintaining this forum.

If they decided to charge a monthly subscription, they would certainly find out what the market will bear. then those who complain about a fee, are free to NOT stay and keep their money, or freely trade the product of their labor for the value they seem to want.

Just my two cents.

I started as a Moocher - for about a day or so. I got so much value out of the site; I had to give value for value.

I have never - NEVER - regretted being a producer here. Even if I don't show up on occasions (and yes, I have vanished for a while), this is *home* for me, and to support that which supports my beliefs and values is a no-brainer to yours truly.

Good bye, moocher. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

You didn't make anyone do anything - they come here by their own free will and choice - and if they leave, it's again, by their own will and free choice. Blaming someone else's post for leaving - is the quintessential looter/moocher trick - to make you feel ***---GUILTY---*** and there by (a) strengthening their own fallacy that they won, and (b) hopefully getting you from being a rational objectivist that loves their own life to a pandering looter who hates themselves.

Someone wants to leave - then it's their issue, and if they want t blame someone for their decision, I say, ahem, "Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish!!!" (I would use much harsher language, but common decency makes me bite my tongue on that!)

I have been both a non-paying lurker and a producer (twice). What I find in the Gulch is intellectually and philosophically stimulating, most of the posts are provoking and often fun to read, but primarily I find here a like minded community of people, mostly free of the trolls that dominate many other online forums. Perhaps it's because I live in a liberal community (whose governor recently resigned over ethics issues), and I am seeking a way to leave for the real (according to knowledgeable people) geographical Gulch. This online Gulch sustains me and keeps me sane, most of the time. I struggle to pay the fees, but some things are worth more than others.

You are right. If the community wants to be gated it is their choice. I do think the community might become stale. I had to step outside my comfort zone when I first read AS. It went against much of what I had been taught to believe. Never stop looking at new ideas and learning.

Really. I could certainly afford to pay but never really thought about it. Galt's Gulch just appeared on my computer one day. I did not look for it. Since Atlas Shrugged was one of my favorite top 5 books I checked GG out and started following it. I think if you will increase your readership if you leave it as it is. That is if you want more people to look at this philosophy. If you just want to sit around and think yourself super intellectuals who have the answers and chat among yourselves that's ok too. Atlas Shrugged is Ayn Rand's truth. It was her conclusion not yours. You are marketing her intellectual property that you believe you have insight into. I love her but I have to improve and build on her ideas. Better you should ask and not demand or you will lose your audience.

If the OP wants to or believes that it's desirable to create a 'gated community in cyberspace' then the OP is free to go off and create one. The intertubes are boundless and the frontier is wide open.

My $0.02 suggests that the policy of not allowing 'members' to upvote until they reach 100 posts has had the desirable effect of determining who actually want to participate and cull most of the deadwood.

I'll lay my head on the block and say: If the owners of the board do not value my contribution they are *100%* within their rights to delete my account! I hope they won't.

I happened upon The Gulch while looking for something else. To date, while I have made a number of posts, no one has sent me, or explained to me the criteria for membership, or anything else. All I know is what I've picked up by reading others' posts.

I will say that I certainly didn't mean to make anyone leave. I wanted to know what Gulchers thought about it, and what they are saying is that people who don't pay the yearly fee can be more valuable on the site sometimes than those who do.
I apologize if I offended anyone; I really did not mean to do so.

I did not know there was a fee. I thought Galt's Gulch appeared magically on my screen when I bring the computer up in the morning, like food in the store, water from the tap, light from the switch. I feel that I want it, therefore I need it, therefore I should have it without restriction, and it should just be there.

Honestly, either viewing with my first cup of coffee in hand in the morning (like now, and not my wits quite about me yet) or on the fly across the day, didn't think about overhead. Will be $-ing on in fairly short order.

I appreciate the value of the information I have received from Galt's Gulch over the past 2+ years, and the value of the time invested by the founders and contributors. But I had to grow into that. If I had been hit with a fee earlier on, I wouldn't have come back.

xthinker, if you haven't already, click on members above. There are some great things to see. I particularly enjoyed the posts on members, and watching clips from the making of the movies.
But I agree; my primary reason is value for value and the continuation of the site.

Interesting idea. Personally i've been a paying member for over a year now. I know that because I just had to renew and re-pay. I've enjoyed all the conversations and meeting like minded people. To me, the value that I've received made me want to pay the small fee to sustain the site. I'm not sure how long I was a member before I paid.

That said, I frankly haven't seen that there are any real benefits to being a paid member. Maybe I'm missing out on things and just don't know about them. To me the only value I've gained by being a paid member is that the site continues.

It's certainly your prerogative.

You are so right and I am out of here

BY BY

Why? Some of my best conversations are with "guests." Some individuals whose comments are hidden were producers. The only stipulation for producer on this site is value -ad. You are not the first to wonder why people don 't upgrade. As I said I can think of two prominent members who were banned and they were producers

Concur with Mimi. It sounds too much like 'You will or else....' I get enough of that from this rogue gov't.

An interesting thought but I think we need to be more flexible. With time constraints some newbies may take longer to decide and I don't mind those who just want to visit occasionally and not pay. With the Gulch growing to 20,000 members we do need to be wary of those who would come here just to disrupt the conversation. I have suggested limits on the number of posts and comments a non paying member can make. I appreciate your suggestion and look forward to seeing other ideas.