Aahh, gee whiz.

Close to what i think too. I have a sister who says it doesn't matter how "good" you are, if you don't believe then you're not getting in. I say these are nonsensical rules. I am my own highest power.

This is by far the best statement I have ever heard on this subject. And IMHO that way it should be! Thanks for sharing!

I don't hang out with them....

I was raised Catholic and spent 7 years in a Catholic school but I have never understood how "God" could hold it against anyone for not believing. If God is what christians believe, he/she/it would only be concerned with if the person is good. Would God be so childish and evil as to demand you believe and praise him or be eternally tortured? I think not. From my experience, believing or not believing in God is not at all telling about wether or not the person is good. And I do not mean that in just a Gulch sort of way, I mean even by christian religion standards. I say let a person cover their bases and confess if they want, or not. God nor anyone else worthy of admiration can seriously hold it against them. Oh, but of course it does not matter what you do, someone will feel they have the right to stop you. But those people are not worthy of my admiration so if God was like that I would not be praising him/her/it even if I knew he existed. Moral of the story, just be a good person and if the christian God does exist you will be rewarded even if you never set foot in a church.

Do you realize that conceptually, this is actually how Christianity became popular? As he got older and was approaching the time when the end of his life was nearing, Emperor Constantine was faced with the decision of his religious beliefs. Being a follower of the the dominant religion of Mithros (the Sun God, celebrated the high holy day of the winter solstice, December 25th) but knew there was a new religion taking hold, followers of Christ (The Son of God, whose birth we now celebrate on December 25th, but would actually have been in March, since that is when the taxes and census that Joseph and Mary were in transit for were actually collected). The thing that separated the two religions the most was the Christian concept of eternal life and forgiveness for his multitude of sins. Constantine made Christianity his empires religion, gaining it the strength to become a major religious force a millennia later.

Until now?

I love you Zen. :)

You just described every Catholic I've ever met.

"Comfort"... that is the word I have used to describe the religious. It is comforting to belieeeeve, but not rational.

If there's an infinitessimal chance there's a god who rewards confessing, there is an equally tiny chance that there's a god who will see the confession as sycophantic or offensive in some other way and punish the man. It's better that he live how he believes and be damned or saved for who he really is.

"Realizing that your death is imminent may well be the most significant opportunity of a life." I don't disagree with this surmise. But the atheist need not be afraid - he's just gambling, with nothing to lose. In fact, he might even enjoy experiencing the absurdity of "confession" - rejoicing in having avoided wasting time on such nonsense until now.

It strikes me as similar to not walking under a ladder, avoiding a black cat that's crossing your path, and not whistling as you walk by a cemetery. If you live a life with that type of nonsense taking up space in your mind, what have you missed out on. Realizing that your death is imminent may well be the most significant opportunity of a life. Leave the nonsense out of your last moments and don't leave this life in fear.

It's like when all will be lost and there is nothing else to lose, taking the unlikely odds of success on a final desperate "Hail Mary" play seems, rational.
Hell, it even won some football teams the game. Of course, the quarterback knew the goal, knew exactly how much time he had, saw where he had to throw the ball and wasn't just praying for some angel to fly out there and catch the ball and run it in for a touchdown.

Thank you for the reference. I searched, and it didn't come up.

"Is it rational live a life in fear, and obey a moral code that is divorced from the needs of life on this Earth, for the sake of an idea that is most basically an arbitrary assertion?"

I agree with this objection to Pacal's Wager, But it does not apply to the scenario I proposed. In that case, there is no "down side", since the atheist is not going to live any longer.

Here is Will Thomas, Director of Programs at the Atlas Society:
http://www.atlassociety.org/atheism-pasc...