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  • Posted by relayman 9 years, 5 months ago
    You want to end the marxist income tax and restore this country back to its founding principles almost immediately? END INCOME TAX WITHHOLDING. When people have to write that check to the irs every month themselves, only then will they see the true cost of guvmint. Withholding succeeds in hiding the cost, since one never receives his total earnings thus never misses it.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 5 months ago
    Eliminate the IRS and revise the entire tax code. Take that mountain of conflicting laws and regulations and build a bonfire. The new code must be contained within 30 pages including the index. The new code should not be written by either lawyers or accountants.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 5 months ago
      Why 30 pages? Why not 3? Or 3 paragraphs? It should be required to pass an amendment to the constitution to change the tax code. Abolish the entire thing, create an amendment requiring any change to be passed as an amendment. That would put the brakes on, and put the people back in charge.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 5 months ago
        I'm old. I like large print.
        If you have a government, you gotta have a military. It should be very well funded and respected. Unless you're thinking in terms of anarchy -- but the human race is way too immature to get that to work. Relative to your comments, I agree that less is more. But remember that it's a nasty world and the only way to be sure that you can keep the citizens safe (which is the truest function of government) is quick and total retribution. The only thing I admire Teddy R. for was his military attitude. When an Arab leader named Raizouli (Spelling?) kidnapped an American named Pedicaris, T. R. sent him a short message. "Pedicaris alive or Raizouli dead." Pedicaris was quickly found alive. That may not work today, but the attitude certainly would.
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  • Posted by fivedollargold 9 years, 5 months ago
    $5Au finds Johnson to be a likeable guy with some interesting ideas. However, a consumption tax (i.e., Federal sales tax) would be unacceptably regressive to most people.
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    • Posted by relayman 9 years, 5 months ago
      Why would a consumption tax "be unacceptably regressive"? The final price paid would likely be cheaper that prices currently paid since there are no longer imbedded taxes, compliance costs, more capital flowing back into the country, etc. There is no complaint about "regressiveness" of sales taxes in states that do not have a marxist income tax. Read Federalist 21.
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      • Posted by fivedollargold 9 years, 5 months ago
        $5Au didn't say he was opposed to it. His point is that most people won't recognize that a massive sales tax increase, say for the sake of argument 38%, would save them money in the long run. No politicians would run the risk of being thrown out of office over it. Another concern is that peeps would respond by buying fewer goods thereby keeping the economy in a perpetually tepid state. Europe has the worst of both worlds--high income tax and a high value-added tax, which is why they have such a small middle class.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 5 months ago
    The GOP now has control of the Senate and the House. Should we have a GOP president two years from now, I fully expect that the IRS be abolished, replacing it with the anything that would be better.
    When I voted last Tuesday, I felt sorely tempted by the sight of Libertarian as a straight ticket option. But I wanted to damage the Dems as much as I could.
    Should there be a GOP president and an IRS by the next midterm election, I do believe I'll be voting against the GOP too. The GOP still sends requests over the years for me to return as a party member. Bah!
    You gotta earn me back first.
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  • Posted by LarryHeart 9 years, 5 months ago
    People WILL keep all their earnings and pay for the government on their transactions. Poor will pay nothing, rich will pay more.

    However that is fair because the rich have more property that the military defends, the mail comes to, interstate commerce benefits etc. so they should pay more for the protection and services.

    People are duty bound to pay for the government tasks/powers that the Constitution explicitly lists. Not anything else.

    Everything else the government took upon themselves (based on redefining "General welfare" in the taxation power to mean any powers to DO what ever they wanted) is THEFT and fraud .

    Read this for the Fairest Tax. http://02f8c87.netsolhost.com/WordPress/...

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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 5 months ago
    Neal Boortz's "fair tax" is probably the best tax idea out there. It gets rid of the IRS, isn't quite as regressive as a simple sales tax, and isn't as punishing on high earners as the income tax. It puts control in the hands of consumers and forces government to adapt, rather than the reverse that is the current situation. Witholding is definitely a problem, and isn't it ironic that voting and tax day are almost diametrically opposed? Well then, maybe it's not so ironic.
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 9 years, 5 months ago
    I only wish that he had justified abolishing the IRS on the grounds that individuals are entitled to keep 100% of their earnings. A Federal sales tax would be a perfect way to support limited government spending and the Progressives would finally have their way in that the 1% would be paying their fair share. They spend more, they pay more taxes.There should be no deductions, no favors. If you can afford a 1/2 million $ Ferrari, you pay $50,000 in taxes. If your wallet can handle a $13,000 Versa, you pay $1300 in taxes. What could be more fair that that?
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    • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 5 months ago
      Only object to your example of a 10% tax. That much 'revenue', er, stolen property, puts far too much power in federally centralized hands.
      One percent is far more than enough to accomplish the constitutionally required protection of individual property and rights.
      And NEVER allow spending in excess of the amount stolen from consumers.
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      • Posted by relayman 9 years, 5 months ago
        I do not know what the tax rate level would ultimately be for a consumption (sales) tax. As Federalist 21 points out, the rate "may be compared to a fluid, which in time will find its level with the means of paying them." Importantly, "the single advantage of taxes on articles of consumption that they contain in their own nature a security against excess. They prescribe their own limit, which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed-- that is, an extension of the revenue." In short, tax on articles of consumption controls the size and reach of guvmint. Not the other way around as with all income taxes, rooted in marxism.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 5 months ago
          Precisely why I added the stipulation not allowing deficit spending (although the wording may not have been clear ;^)
          Banking sociopaths currently control America, and they did it by being the only source of credit (created from nothing, not from any assets from productive activity.)
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    • Posted by relayman 9 years, 5 months ago
      You are absolutely right. An individual selling the property of their labor in return for a paycheck is or should not be a federal tax event. THERE IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL BASIS FOR A FEDERAL PROPERTY TAX. The exchange of your labor for a paycheck results in NO GAIN, so how can that be defined as income (def. "the gain DERIVED from labor or property or both combined.") I also totally agree, as did the Framers, that guvmint should be financed by a consumption (sales) tax. Read Federalist 21.
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      • Posted by j_IR1776wg 9 years, 5 months ago
        Repealing the 16th Amendment would be a great start in the right direction.
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        • Posted by relayman 9 years, 5 months ago
          Repealing the 16th Amendment (allegedly ratified) is the ultimate goal bet not a prerequisite to suspending the marxist income tax and imposing a consumption tax. The typical excuse of friends of income taxes is that we would wind up with both. If that held water, then what is stopping Congress from imposing both today? Both are allowed in the Constitution. That neutralizes that argument. I say suspend the marxist income tax for a reasonable period of time, and finance the guvmint with a consumption tax. After that time, the Marxist income tax will be doomed and the people will demand the repeal of the 16th.
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          • Posted by j_IR1776wg 9 years, 5 months ago
            Well put. Do you know of anyone on the national scene with the cojones who might try to "suspend the marxist income tax"? An Article V convention would have at least a chance of repealing the 16th
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  • Posted by rbuckwalter 9 years, 5 months ago
    Despite the uptick in unemployment (visualize ex-IRS "workers" wandering around like zombies) I'm all for abolishing the IRS. The agency has been used to selectively persecute our own citizens. They are so corrupt that not one internal whistle blower surfaced. That's a clean house and start over event in my opinion. The fact that no one is yet being held accountable or in prison is an abomination.

    A consumption tax is regressive, but until the point where people can not afford basic necessities (like food, clothes, shelter, etc. ) due to the incremental cost, it still taxes the affluent at a much higher rate. So despite the label, how is that unfair? Some necessities could be exempted from sales tax as is the case today in many states. This would lead to wrangling over where we draw the line between necessary food, clothing, and shelter VS caviar, designer jeans, and mansions. I think that's manageable. The more affluent will purchase more and pay more tax ( the spoils of their hard work, risk, effort, etc.) and subsidize the cost of government for those who either choose to or can not afford it.

    The challenge for the moochers is that they cannot control the income stream as well as they can with and income based tax. Any consumption tax puts some decision making back in the hands of the consumer and makes the merchant the tax collector. I have actually considered taking a lower paying job to reduce the taxes that are confiscated, but that's a much greater sacrifice than not buying a fancy car or a yacht.

    The bottom line is that you can't divorce a conversation about abolishing the IRS from a conversation about reducing the size of Federal Government. The government now behaves like any other business and is in the business of trying to get larger, more powerful, and more influential - the take over of health care being the most recent example. Unlike a business in a free market the government business can do all of this while performing abysmally in every competitive metric like efficiency, competitiveness, and quality which serve to keep private enterprise "honest".
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 5 months ago
    The Libertarian Party has been in favor of abolishing the IRS and the federal income tax since its inception. The idea has never gained traction with the general public, and will not likely do so in the foreseeable future.

    From a tactical perspective, I think the best strategy for the LP is to propose abolishing federal income taxes from the ground up, starting at the lowest end of the income scale. Turn the 10% bracket into a 0% bracket and exempt the first $15,000 of earned income from the Social Security / Medicare payroll tax. It would mean that a full-time employee making the minimum wage of $7.25 per hour (about $15,000 per year) would pay no federal withholding tax at all.

    A tax cut of this size and shape would be an immediate hit with minimum-wage workers (providing a 12% increase in their take-home pay) and would provide substantial tax relief to the middle class. Such a proposal would favorably contrast the Libertarian Party’s viewpoint with the Democrats’ “soak the rich” mentality and the Republicans’ “trickle-down” economics – our plan would be more of a “trickle-up” approach.

    The annual “cost” to federal revenue would be $250 billion or less – around one-third the cost of the financial system bailout of 2008. Even without corresponding spending cuts, such a tax cut would probably score a net gain for the overall economy, increasing both consumer spending and investment. Such a “starve the beast” approach to tax-cutting would mean reducing government revenues first and then leaving it to the “deficit hawks” in Congress to enact corresponding spending cuts (or not, as they choose).

    We need to translate our high-level goals (such as “abolish the IRS”) to incremental concrete proposals (such as “cut income taxes starting at the bottom”) that the public is more likely to support.
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