"Universities should educate students..."?
Baloney! The 'kids' should have gotten that education from their parents some time after they stopped wetting their beds (the kids' wetting their beds, that is! :) ).

I've mentioned this before to little avail, but keep in mind the free-market truism... "if there are too many students having trouble paying back their student loans, JUST MAYBE those loans were too EASY to get?"

If we've got a glut of student-loan bankruptcies, just MAYBE subsidized loan rates were NOT a 'good idea' in the first place?

Are all the free-marketeers gone from here?

Need better high school 'guidance counselors' who could actually discuss these issues with students BEFORE they go to college!

"Everyone" bitches about lousy workmanship by their plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc., but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of Vo-Tech training to find the kids who'd meet those market demands and deliver high-quality services at the same time!

There's money to be made in those industries if the 'good money chases out the bad' but there's some kind of market-feedback loop that's broken.

http://www.plusaf.com/linkedin/linked-in...

The motivation to learn, create, expand, experiment, eliminate parameters, succeed, invent and ignore the words, "it can't be done" or "it can't get any better" come from within a human being. Everyone has the potential, once they realize that no institution has so much power to guarantee success or failure. All of the answers needed to succeed are available without a college education, no matter what area of study. One only need to find it. As for suing an institution for fraud, never. We all have the freedom to choose our education. However, few will ever think outside the structured agenda implanted in their being since early childhood. (I am not sure if including a personal example here is allowed, so delete me if not.) My son went to a "good" college. While it did provide him with a somewhat beneficial look at life, most of his education has come from his own desire to learn. After college he started with nothing but his mind and his inexhaustible thirst for knowledge, accomplishment and pride in himself and his work. His success is his own and less than 10% would I attribute to his formal education. His convictions, innovation, hard work and dedication make up the other 90%. He built his business from nothing, including the "proper education" and no money or loans. I am one very proud mother of a son who believes in himself. http://www.harrelsontrumpets.com/Default...

Thanks. I have been a jack of many trades and master of a few. Interstitial compounds offer a lot of synthesis/property flexibility so that you can tailor properties anywhere from metallic to ceramic and anywhere in between. Metallic foams are great in quite a few heat transfer apps.

You could always make this your winter Gulch. It never gets really hot here, but it is consistently nice from October to April.
We are at the cold spot in the summer within Florida.

Well uh now I am worried that I spelled "ditto" wrong!
Chuckle!

Ditto!

Chuckle!!!

Nicely stated.

i.e. fraud

Bravo!

Here. I've added mine. +1.

And +1 on point 2.

here is an article on point:
http://business.time.com/2013/11/10/the-...

shouldn't a potential student (and parents footing the bill) expect that part of his CORE classes (required for graduation) should be some coursework addressing these skills? Are they supposed to pick up these skills in the student union? I think many of these skills can be honed by working one's way through college, but the ease of getting the student loans allows thousands of students to not have to work while attending.

Hey Dr. Brenner, I just read your profile on the FIT site. Very impressive. I know of Professor Thompson but never met him. I also was stationed at NPTU Idaho for 4 years back in the late 80's and since I was the engineering controls specialist at the Navy site, I got to work with ANL at their site trying to fix some issues with their control system. However, I am really impressed with some of the work on metal foams and interstitial compounds. It sounds as if your career has been multi-faceted and very interesting.

Will do...

There is truth to this point of view, but no relation at all to my initial claim.

Please take some time to read the restatement of my case here:
http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/17...

Especially opposition point 6

I think that there is a lot of merit to this point of view. I lot of the above is about abnegation of the individual's responsibility to THINK!

I have to disagree with your assertion here.

I have personally experienced different levels of education.
In an effort to get a "good name" on my education transcript, I did a postgrad year at a private school after four years of public high-school.

I had four years of Latin under my belt.
I had earned nothing less than an A- for each semester for all four years.

I wanted to take another year of Latin.
It was suggested that I take Latin 3.

I was insulted because, in my mind, I was ready for Latin 5.

At my insistence, I was placed in Latin 4, and promptly failed spectacularly.

When you are getting education, you are in a position where you have no choice but to trust that what you are receiving is high quality.
And if it is not high quality, and it is not blatanly inept, you will probably never know that it is sub-par until reality later smacks you in the face.

That said, please take some time to read the restatement of my case here:
http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/17...

One specific point: I am not in favor of ANY government-subsidized assistance or loans. The Constitution needs to recognize separation of Economics and State, separation of Education and State as well as separation of Religion and State, for exactly the same reason.

I'm afraid I must part company with you to a great extent. Most of the above rejoinders sound like excuses to me, not reasons.

For example, ""I CHOSE to continue with my education and do everything in my power to apply my knowledge into that field. If my best efforts get me nowhere, that is not my university's fault."
Unless, of course, the education that they gave you, without your realization, was crap."

I think that any reasonably intelligent college student can recognize crap when he (or she) sees it.

I, for one, went to Purdue for one year and left to pursue an Associates degree at a technical college. Even in the 1960's crap was easily discerned. For example, Purdue offered a NON-credit course called "Engineering Orientation" that meant nothing to me since I already know which discipline I wanted to tackle, however, you couldn't graduate with out passing it. How did you pass it you ask? By attending at least 90% of the classes. Oh, and it was the only course that ever started at 7:30 AM, 3 days a week. I got out while the getting was good.

As a result of the Associates degree, I was able to spent almost 60 years working with computers of one sort or another. Now, I've retired as few companies want *individual* contributors any more. It's all about "teams" (the collective) and the politics of it all made the field no fun anymore.

Thank you for your perspective. It's wonderful to have it from someone who is in the thick of it. Keep up the good work. It seems as if you have a good head on your shoulders. :-)

I teach three classes one term, and four the other. FIT is definitely different. Normal faculty here teach two one term and three the other.

As for the grad students, they aren't paying tuition, but we're essentially trading that for services rendered. It's still $40 K in compensation. I tend to give all my compensation in stipend, and tell the students to spend it the way they want.

Fair enough about the overhead. We have a separate LLC called Florida Tech Consulting where the overhead is 15% instead of 46%.