Is the Gulch possible in 2023?

Posted by $ servo75 10 months, 1 week ago to The Gulch: General
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I don't mean politically or where would the land come from, etc. I'm talking simply about feasibility and resources, human and otherwise. I'm referring to his maxim about doing the minimum you can (in the outside world) to sustain yourself, not "work for the looters", etc. Certainly in 1957 I would say impossible. Personally I disagree slightly with this part of Galt's (Rand's? I tend to use them interchangeably) philosophy. If I do better for myself, I'm working for myself and enjoying the benefits. As long as I'm not working free out of pure altruism for someone else, I don't see what the harm is IMHO. But back to the point...

We are not supposed to do anything that "supports the looters" which I take to mean just about any commerce in the outside world. If that's the case then to pull off an Atlantis in real life, it would have to be 100% self-sustaining. Just thinking of the movie since that's more modern, don't phones still have to come from the outside? Some building materials? Is there a hospital in the Gulch? Are there farms sufficient to make food production completely self-sustaining? Also the use of gold. I understand Galt said that Dagny was "broke" because she didn't carry around gold with her. Does that mean any gold from outside the gulch is no good? How would one notice the difference? Does that mean every coin was mined from within the gulch? There's still an exchange rate where one could buy gold on the outside and bring it in (personally I'd be for expanding the currency to silver and copper too for small purchases, but I digress...)

So to maintain the Gulch would require being 100% self-sustaining requiring no good, product, service, or raw material from the outside world. In 2023, unlike 1957, I think this IS theoretically possible since I believe there are enough producers from all industries necessary to survive. But I don't know if I can say the same for raw materials. There would have to be someone who has the skill and physical resources to build technology, lay telephone lines, put up cell towers, manufacture the phones and tablets and computers, enough farms to provide fruit, meat, and dairy for everyone. Hospital and medical/specialist services. Tall order. I think this is all in THEORY possible, whereas we could find enough producers to cover every field. A tech company like Samsung may have Galtian employees (Quentin Daniels types) but would they be able to produce the same in the Gulch? Would they have the facilities? The materials? Unless I'm getting Galt's philosophy wrong, his ideals in the Gulch would be next to impossible because at some point something must be needed from outside.

Thoughts?


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  • Posted by Aeronca 10 months, 1 week ago
    One issue here is how much quality of life does one have to give up to establish a separate self-sufficient Gulch? Obviously there are benefits to a large society of specialization that we all enjoy. But when the whole enterprise becomes a burden of working for the looters, it's time to go solo and give up the conveniences to be free. So a lot of electronic technology and advanced health care are immediately out, but there is Self-Reliance, a long forgotten art, and contact sport. The self-reliant built this world and we have grown soft and forgotten how they did it.
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    • Posted by CaptainKirk 10 months, 1 week ago
      Income tax is slavery. Someone else decides how much of your work effort you are allowed to keep.
      Even the MAFIA wouldn't take > 50%
      But if you are self-employed you can pay 39% and 15% for about 54% (yeah, I consider both sets of taxes). Or you pay massive income tax, in a GRADUATED tax, which our constitution said should not be done. (Oh, but it's not... It's a DISCOUNT if you make LESS than some levels. Umm... Still the same thing).
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  • Posted by jack1776 10 months, 1 week ago
    I’m sorry but the most important resource is like minded people with skills. I know a few people now that I left Commiefornia but its still a far cry from everyone we need. This is doing the story book version of going Galt. Replacing the food production would be easy, enough like minded farms exist I think. How about medical? Lawyers? Oh, assembly line workers? Just saying its a fantasy.

    I like Freedomforall suggestion of boycotting the woke companies but its unrealistic.
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    • Posted by mhubb 10 months, 1 week ago
      we do the best we can with what we have

      food
      water
      guns
      ammo
      people like minded to gather and help each other
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      • Posted by CaptainKirk 10 months, 1 week ago
        Exactly, I don't need lawyers and doctors.
        Although some medical books, and relatively intelligent people.
        but TBH, I would prefer a SHAMAN to todays doctors when the lights go out!
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        • Posted by $ 10 months, 1 week ago
          Lawyers I can understand but no doctors? I think much of the "lack of effectiveness" of modern doctors is BECAUSE of government control, e.g. Obamacare, insurance regulations, the DEA putting every prescription under a microscope, things like that.
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          • Posted by CaptainKirk 10 months, 1 week ago
            Read the book:
            Lies My Doctor Told Me. By Dr. Ken Berry.

            The doctors I Follow NOW all have changed so much, that their goals are to DEPRESCRIBE the medicines they were pushing.

            When you realize it's not just Covid, the flu, the childhood vaccines. But Statins? Utter BS. T2D is a lifestyle disease mismanaged by doctors.
            I watched them turn my neighbor INTO a T2D in TN. Don't get me started about cancer therapy, where they count it as a SUCCESS if the drug kills you before the cancer does.

            And I also said "When the lights go out!"
            With access to tech, a doctor in a pinch is great.

            Emergency Medical is Amazing.
            Prevention? We're morons. More than HALF the drug trials CANNOT be reproduced. Besides being invalidated statistically when they can BURY 10 studies that showed danger, and only publish the 1 study that is so doctored up it's worthless.

            I knew a Cancer doc. $50,000/treatment. He would NEVER take it, and he would NEVER give it to a family member. But he hides behind "It's standard of care... And cancer is a death sentence, so I do the best I can for my patients"

            Yeah... Don't need them doctors!
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    • Posted by term2 10 months, 1 week ago
      We all have to willingly reduce our standard of living to effectively do boycotts.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 10 months, 1 week ago
        Wow. You might not be able to get a new iphone every 2 years.
        Weigh that 'sacrifice' against "pledging our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor" to defend individual liberty.
        Would you rather live in soviet Ukraine where some tyrant in a far away place decides your food
        must be taken away and you will be left to starve to death?
        That is the issue to consider.
        "Live Free Or Die" is not a political slogan. It is approaching reality.
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        • Posted by term2 10 months, 1 week ago
          You are right. My point was really that the government has designed their power structure so that we have to give up a lot in order to not give in to them. We will indeed need to calculate that and have to make sacrifices in the short term.

          I think we each can cut 20% out of our expenses without disastrous reductions in standard of living, but imagine what 20% reduction in GDP would do to the government coffers. It would cut their effective power substantially.
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          • Posted by freedomforall 10 months, 1 week ago
            Look at what a 20% drop in Bud Lite buying is doing to Anheuser-Busch, for example.
            A 20% decline in sales at Amazon and MSFT and Apple and Walmart would be devastating.
            That's one reason for the drive to get a Digital Currency.
            "You MUST spend money at Amazon and Walmart or it will be removed from your account!"
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            • Posted by term2 10 months, 1 week ago
              CBDC is a really bad thing. The bud light thing is a bit stupid, but customers should and can make buying decisions. What if 50 million people just decided not to pay taxes. Even 86,000 IRS agents would be powerless.
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              • Posted by freedomforall 10 months, 1 week ago
                Today there is little recourse for government if people decide to stop trading with the enemy.
                Stop paying taxes and 'emergency powers' will be invoked.
                Stop buying at Walmart and there is no emergency.
                I think it's the only peaceful way at a grassroots level to have a positive effect against
                the evil and corrupt who have high level political pull.
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                • Posted by term2 10 months, 1 week ago
                  We can try cutting expenses by 10% overall for a starter. Most companies that suffer a 10% reduction in sales will have substantially lower profits and will pay substantially lower taxes, causing the government to endure more deficit spending and ultimately to print more money
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        • Posted by jack1776 10 months, 1 week ago
          Understood and agreed with, it sounds like you hit your trigger and you're all in. Me, I'm still think we can pull this out, I know its bleak but if we get the cheating under control, we can pull this out. People need to be prosecuted and punished, publicly. I have not hit my trigger yet, but they keep pushing me in that direction.
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          • Posted by freedomforall 10 months, 1 week ago
            My trigger came 30 years and 8 days ago.
            Punishment for that is yet to come.
            I doubt that DC can be reformed.
            The corruption and treason goes too deep and has been building for over 100 years.
            The temple must be (figuratively) pulled down on their heads.
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            • Posted by term2 10 months, 1 week ago
              we should first try to weaken the government before the revolution
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              • Posted by $ jdg 10 months, 1 week ago
                Revolution is unlikely (historically) until people are starving. Which is not something we can cause, or should try to cause. But if the authors of "the Great Reset" are telling the truth, and I think they are, it will soon happen.

                In my view, the best way to be in a strong position when it happens is to purge your life of all the conveniences you can that carry surveillance of you as part of their prices -- your credit and debit cards, your cell phone, your TV, any "smart" appliances if you have them, your car if it has OnStar or any GPS technology. Use cash and carry cash, and if possible, carry a means to protect it and yourself. Trust only people you know and live in a community that feels the same way and won't rat you out when SHTF.

                In other words, my "Gulch" would look a lot like the Amish community.

                And avoid believing in boogeymen. "CBDC" is one -- because it's so much easier, and achieves the same result, for surveillance and "social credit scores" to be imposed on you through tech companies and banks who can tell a court you used their services voluntarily.
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                • Posted by Dobrien 10 months ago
                  Weird how you are saying essentially what Q has said.
                  Please look at these three Q drops and tell me what you specifically have an issue with in these Q posts that you describe as a psyop.

                  4685
                  Sep 12, 2020 Q

                  HOW DO YOU AMPLIFY A DESIRED THEME-NARRATIVE?
                  MSDNC controls what you see [digital echo].
                  Twitter - FB - GOOG control what you see and what trends [digital echo].
                  Hollywood ['stars'] swarm to enforce ['trend' echo].
                  Blue checkmarks swarm to enforce [digital echo].
                  ANTIFA swarm to enforce [non_digital echo].
                  Rage and emotion follow by those indoctrinated [echo controlled].
                  Define 'indoctrinate'.
                  to often repeat an idea or belief to someone in order to persuade them to accept it
                  Next: grab 'rage & emotion' [organized platform(s)] by indoctrinated and project as 'majority' [zoom and enhance _narrow focus as mainstream].
                  System of control.
                  Many choose the path of least resistance.
                  For many you cannot tell them the truth.
                  You must show them.
                  Only at the PRECIPICE will people find the will [strength] to change and break the system of control [be free].
                  Q


                  4407
                  Jun 04, 2020 3:39:26 PM EDT
                  Q

                  Important to understand.
                  ONLY AT THE PRECIPICE [moment of destruction] WILL PEOPLE FIND THE WILL TO CHANGE.
                  Q

                  Wealth (over generations) buys power.
                  Power (over generations) buys more wealth/control.
                  More wealth/control buys countries and its people.
                  Families combined (TRI) = NWO.
                  Inner TRI families will collapse.
                  What is the keystone?
                  What Nation dominates all others?
                  What Nation has influence over most others?
                  What is the keystone?
                  Return to SA.
                  Strings cut (+++).
                  Puppets (+++) in shadows.
                  Each side of the triangle controls a certain subsect of power brokers.
                  Power brokers are also labeled as the puppets/servants.
                  What is the New World Order?
                  Why did POTUS receive a sword dance when visiting SA?
                  What does this mean culturally?
                  Why is this relevant?
                  What occurred in SA?
                  How did POTUS remove one side of the pyramid?
                  What did POTUS receive while visiting China?
                  Where did POTUS dine?
                  What is the significance?
                  What if China, Russia, and others are coordinating w/ POTUS to eliminate the NWO?
                  Who controls NK?
                  Who really controls NK?
                  Who controls several agencies within the US, EU, and abroad?
                  Why is No Such Agency so vital?
                  Enormous scale of events currently ongoing.
                  Why is Russia helping to kill ISIS?
                  This is not easy to accept nor believe.
                  Crumbs make bread.
                  Operations active.
                  Joint missions underway.
                  The world is fighting back.
                  Refer back to graphic.
                  The Great Awakening.
                  Snow White.
                  Iron Eagle.
                  Jason Bourne (2016)(Dream/CIA).
                  Q
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            • Posted by Dobrien 10 months, 1 week ago
              From 3 or 4 Q posts “ I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased corrupt temple down on your heads. It's gonna be Biblical.”
              https://youtu.be/ykvIeY_hwOM
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              • Posted by $ jdg 10 months, 1 week ago
                Any Q message that says that, is from a Fed who is not on your side.
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                • Posted by Dobrien 10 months, 1 week ago
                  What do you know about Q? Please explain how a Fed that is not on my side relates to Q.
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                  • Posted by $ jdg 10 months ago
                    "Q" is a psy-op by some person or group who purports to be a patriot with a top-secret clearance and secret plans to reveal (but when asked for specifics, always dissembles and counsels patience rather than give any).

                    That fact pattern screams to me that the deep state are the ones running the psy-op, for the same reasons they are running (and probably created!) the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, and Antifa and BLM.

                    FBI's plan is always the same: arrange for an apparent crime to happen through agents provocateurs and entrapment, and arrest and frame anyone who even contributes funds. Lather, rinse, repeat. That's FBI's modus operandi since at least the reign of J. Edgar Hoover. FBI has not become corrupted, it always was.
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                    • Posted by Dobrien 10 months ago
                      You have a very good grasp of what the main stream media wants you to think. The FBI plan that you describe is actually just another Hegelian dialectic that is used over and over again. Q has nothing to do with the FBLie. In fact Q has pointed and detailed the corruption within the FBLie leadership as well as other alphabet agencies. Q is responsible for the great awakening. I have watched it first hand. Q pointed to the Epstien blackmail operation 2 years before any not following Q even heard of him, same with NXIVM. Q led the anons to discover the money laundering machine and the color revolution in Ukraine. Now everyone knows. Q showed the anons what and who have been undermining our country like the banking Cabal with Soros/Rothschilds and the rest of the Khazarian mafia. Q pointed out Anti-Fa the BLM including the Weather underground and Bill Ayers and how Ayers groomed Obama. Q showed anons what the WEF is and what they are attempting to do. At the time no one on this board even knew who Klaus Schwab was.
                      The plan is simply for Americans to wake up and take back our rights. The most common theme among those who claim Q is a psyop is Q kept Patriots from fighting back against the tyrants. Well he sure didn’t stop stop you and the others who make that claim what is your or their excuse then?
                      You obviously have not spent anytime doing your own discernment on this “psyop”. The enemy has written thousands of stories “debunking Q. They do follow Q and are scared shitless of all their corruption being exposed. That is a psyop against them. Q has nothing to do with Proud boys or Oath keepers. Q was never going to reveal any specific details or the timing of the operation.
                      Many folks thought they knew when arrests would occur by using their own interpretation of Q’s drops
                      They were wrong and because they were wrong, Q according to them lost credibility. Too bad , the Great awakening is still happening and that was Q’s main objective. As far as timing goes Q has said numerous times that before people find the will to change and throw off a tyrannical government they have to reach the precipice.
                      That precipice is fast approaching.
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                      • Posted by Dobrien 10 months ago
                        This happens to be a 5 yr Q delta post.
                        1295
                        Apr 29, 2018 11:11:22 AM EDT
                        Q !xowAT4Z3VQ ID: 09b0d5 No. 1233458
                        Be careful who you are following.
                        Some are profiting off this movement.
                        Some are building a big following off this movement only then to retreat and go mainstream.
                        Patriots make sacrifices.
                        Some, the ultimate sacrifice.
                        Patriots are SELFLESS.
                        Do they ask for monthly payments to remain Patriots?
                        Think logically.
                        To some, it’s only about the money.
                        Those who would seek personal gain at the expense of others in this movement has an agenda.
                        You decide.
                        This is not a game.
                        The only profit we should all be striving for is TRUE FREEDOM.
                        God bless you all.
                        Q
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        • Posted by $ 10 months, 1 week ago
          The phone thing was just an example. The broader question, is could such a community be completely self-sustaining? It wasn't meant to be taken literally.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 10 months, 1 week ago
      I agree that creating a real Gulch would be difficult.
      I recognize that people are comfortable in their own areas and are very
      reluctant to leave behind relatives, familiarity, and conveniences.
      That reluctance must be overcome and it won't happen until a core group
      has proven the concept as a success.
      That would only be the beginning of the challenge.
      Galt had the invisibility screen to protect his Gulch and any Gulch would
      need an analog of that to protect it from federal and state power.
      imo, a successful Gulch would be met with a response from the feds like the FBI in Waco.
      Public relations would then have to exceed the deep state propaganda effort.
      And you think a boycott of enemy products is unrealistic?
      This is a war for our liberty and the enemy will do ANYTHING to win, including genocide.
      If we don't treat this as a war, freedom is a fond memory and
      all we will have is propaganda promises.
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      • Posted by term2 10 months, 1 week ago
        Eventually, revolution to overthrow a statist government like ours is the eventual solution unless the state crumbles and loses the power to control the people. That might happen here if the economy and living conditions deteriorate to a breaking point. A military based civil war will be very bloody given the power of the current US state. It needs to be weakened before this is attempted.
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      • Posted by jack1776 10 months, 1 week ago
        “That reluctance must be overcome and it won't happen until a core group
        has proven the concept as a success.” - or they have nothing else left to loose. I’ve written about the trigger point and we all have one, its different for all of us at what point we become “all in”. For me, its not owning my property outright, I owe the bank and there for I need to make income to keep my property. Fighting a war and holding a job are incompatible. I think they know this and are orchestrating the whole thing and manipulating public opinion and keep us where we are at.

        Going Galt virtually makes sense to me as we could organize and put some hurt to them (who are they, kind of like an inverse John Galt). We need a secure, safe and encrypted method to organzine. I’ve been looking at an old school technology called Internet Relay Chat or IRC. I’d want to make sure its untraceable, the content could be made unreadable.

        Organizing for commerce, boycotting, news and events. So this is the technology problem, solved. Allowing access and to whom is a major problem and is why I never developed anything. Someone somewhere will allow someone that shouldn’t be into the network. Once that happens, its destroyed. The FBI has people embedded in a lot of these type of organizations, how do we keep that from happening? I’m pretty sure I invited one to my house, nothing added up with him. America has been under attack, we just didn't know it until recently.
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        • Posted by Dobrien 10 months, 1 week ago
          4008
          Apr 29, 2020 3:22:44 PM EDT
          Q !!Hs1Jq13jV6 ID: c8f4dc No. 8963389
          Read slowly and carefully.
          Knowledge is power.
          https://2009-2017.state.gov/documents...
          >Irregular warfare is far more varied than conventional conflict: hence the importance of an intellectual framework that is coherent enough to provide guidance, and flexible enough to adapt to circumstances.
          >American counterinsurgency practice rests on a number of assumptions: that the decisive effort is rarely military (although security is the essential prerequisite for success); that our efforts must be directed to the creation of local and national governmental structures that will serve their populations, and, over time, replace the efforts of foreign partners; that superior knowledge, and in particular, understanding of the ‘human terrain’ is essential; and that we must have the patience to persevere in what will necessarily prove long struggles.
          >Insurgency, however, can and will flourish in the
          modern environment. The strains created by globalization, by the collapse of weak state structures, by demographic, environmental, and economic pressures, by the ease of cooperation among insurgent groups and criminals, and by the appearance of destructive radical ideologies, all augur a period in which free and moderate governance is at risk.
          [Insurgency is the organized use of subversion and violence to seize, nullify or chal- lenge political control of a region. As such, it is primarily a political struggle, in which both sides use armed force to create space for their political, economic and influence activities to be effective. Insurgency is not always conducted by a single group with a centralized, military-style command structure, but may involve a complex matrix of different actors with various aims, loosely connected in dynamic and non-hierarchical networks. To be successful, insurgencies require charismatic leadership, supporters, recruits, supplies, safe havens and funding (often from illicit activities). They only need the active support of a few enabling individuals, but the passive acquiescence of a large proportion of the contested population will give a higher probability of success. This is best achieved when the political cause of the insurgency has strong appeal, manipulating religious, tribal or local identity to exploit common societal grievances or needs. Insurgents seek to gain control of populations through a combination of persuasion, subversion and coercion while using guerrilla tactics to offset the strengths of government security forces. Their intent is usually to protract the struggle, exhaust the government and win sufficient popular support to force capitulation or political accommodation. Consequently, insurgencies evolve through a series of stages, though the progression and outcome will be different in almost every case.]
          Q
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          • Posted by JakeOrilley 10 months, 1 week ago
            Very well stated... that almost sounds the way the DS is trying to take over the country....
            The outspoken radicals are a very small minority which is the only thing that still has me hopeful.
            An EXCELLENT definition of insurgency!
            Thanks for the thoughts....
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            • Posted by Dobrien 10 months, 1 week ago
              That is a Q #4008 drop with a 3 year delta on Apr 29.

              https://qalerts.app/?q=

              This is one drop that is discussed maybe more than any other.
              #521
              Jan 13, 2018 10:18:18 PM EST
              Q !UW.yye1fxo ID: 000000 No. 9
              We are FIGHTING for LIFE.
              We are FIGHTING for GOOD.
              We are at WAR [@].
              NOT EVERYTHING WILL BE CLEAN.
              [SCARE] NECESSARY EVENT.
              Do you TRUST the US Military?
              Do you TRUST the Chain Of Command?
              Have FAITH - WE ARE IN CONTROL.
              PATRIOTS.
              PATRIOTS DAY.
              HAVE FAITH.
              YOU WERE CHOSEN FOR A REASON.
              YOU ARE BEING PROVIDED THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF INTEL TO EVER BE DROPPED PUBLICLY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
              USE IT - PROTECT AND COMFORT THOSE AROUND YOU.
              WHERE WE GO ONE, WE GO ALL.
              Q
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  • Posted by nanovation 10 months, 1 week ago
    Lots of good answers here in the thread. One important thing to keep in mind in regards to "Don't work hard to support the looters," is that the central bankers / oligarchs control the printing presses and thus they don't need our tax dollars to achieve their agenda. Taxing us is simply a tool to keep us enslaved and from building up enough capital to compete with the central bankers / oligarchs that control the system.
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 10 months, 1 week ago
    First, I would posit your position on Gold is "off". It is valuable whether mined in the gulch or not.
    The point is the scarcity it implies, but someone coming in with a huge amount could throw things off. Although, with like-minded people, I don't think as much.

    Second, realize that this is 100% possible. Think in terms of natives living in untouched areas. Were not the Aborigine living in their Gulch? Were not the Native Indians? How about any islanders? Long lost civilizations?

    The point being is that we confuse/conflate what it means to live, to living with an UNHEARD OF amount of luxury.
    [Homo Sapiens have been around for > 1 Million Years... Yet only in the last 120 have we had Electricity, Indoor Plumbing, Technology, space travel, satellites, medical miracles, etc]. WE Are incredibly fortunate to be living through the "Human Singularity". At no time will ONE or TWO Generations witness the positive advances we have been born into!

    So, imagine we found an island. Where we could raise cattle, and farm, and fish. But we had to downgrade away from most modern items. That Gulch is available, IMHO today... Probably for the taking.

    Wasn't this tried in the M. Night Shyamalan move The Village? Was that not a GULCH?

    ==
    Now, the big question is. Would it be BETTER if it had a Nuclear Power Plant, and 200yrs of Fuel?
    Sure. But now you need Copper, Light Bulbs, etc.
    And this is where we have to squint. At which point do we become the "Communism" that lives off of capitalism?
    [If The Village had electricity, water, sewage, and technology piped in, it would "feel" like that, no?]
    ==

    So, the Gulch, to me, is more about a community, living disconnected, on their own, with the fruits of their own labor. Rand was able to use the "Power Generation" of Galt's invention. But he stood on the shoulders of those who came before him. The airplanes they used to come and go? The "shield" to hide them. They were like writer's crutches, so she could tell the story.

    Without them. They would have been living like Natives when we first landed in the Americas.
    And compared to what we have now... I would PREFER THAT!
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    • Posted by freedomforall 10 months, 1 week ago
      Most people today are so very spoiled by modern conveniences.
      So accustomed to convenience that they believe it will never be taken away,
      even though it is utterly obvious that the things that make such convenience
      possible are being taken away every single day.
      Sometimes people are so stupid, gullible, and willing to accept any insane
      outrage (like governments' creation and release of deadly viruses and
      mandating crippling 'vaccines') in order to keep their conveniences they disgust me.
      Even the thought of giving up any modern convenience that addicts them
      to enslavement is just too much effort and 'unrealistic' to be bothered with.
      May their eventual chains of slavery rest so heavily that they are enlightened to action.

      How could we possibly live without Amazon? Somehow we did 28 years ago.
      How could we possibly live without smart cellphones? We did only 22 years ago.
      How could federal government exist on only a Trillion a year? It did only 36 years ago.
      At the height of Cold War military spending less than that was being spent.
      SIX TIMES that amount is being WASTED by the looting scum in DC this year.


      The Gulch is very difficult to create, and absolutely necessary for individual liberty.
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      • Posted by Dobrien 10 months, 1 week ago
        I do not and never had a cell phone. I have never ordered from Amazon.

        Much of what you describe is the normalcy of the everyday sot. Shit happens but I have always gotten what I need ,they think. I suspect some in California and Seattle and Chicago are learning different.
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      • Posted by CaptainKirk 10 months, 1 week ago
        +1,000... Preach Brother!

        Yes, todays "infrastructure" is the opiate of the masses.

        The smart people I know are buying land.
        I will be adding my living quarters to my buddies property. It will be his if I never need it.
        But WHEN the SHTF, I have a place to go in the start of our own Gulch.

        I am joining "resilience" communities, and we are sharing ideas.
        While Solar is not a cost effective Electricity source vs. the power we get today.
        It can certainly sustain basic things you might want to have running.

        Nowadays, I value a property HIGHER with septic and a well...

        The challenge, as you pointed out... Is that most people will be UNABLE to adapt to that lifestyle.
        (Me, a solar panel, and a Kindle (or 5), loaded with PDF files of knowledge/entertainment goes a long way).
        Being busy, working outside never bothered me.
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    • Posted by Dobrien 10 months, 1 week ago
      I recommend reading A. Huxley’s book “The Island”
      Written in 1962. No Island will be safe from the looters. Worth your time to read it.
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      • Posted by CaptainKirk 10 months, 1 week ago
        I just put it on my phone to listen to.
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        • Posted by Dobrien 10 months, 1 week ago
          For anyone else who is interested this is an audio book link with read along if you wish.
          https://esl-bits.net/ESL.English.Lear...
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          • Posted by CaptainKirk 10 months, 1 week ago
            BTW, did you check out Whitney Webb? She had a long interview with Glenn Beck! It's on YT
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            • Posted by Dobrien 10 months, 1 week ago
              Yes , she is Q uite a fascinating woman. At 33 yrs her depth and understanding is remarkable. It seems we have gone down many of the same rabbit holes. The evil uses Blackmail to control on a massive scale. Robert Maxwell’s story was just touched upon. The main difference is she feels Trump is in the same cabal as the rest. I guess That is possible and if true We are all f…d . But I thinQ the case that he is truly a heroic patriotic warrior has more solid evidence.
              I have a low opinion of so many talking heads that it doesn’t take much to be better than most . That said , Beck is in the neighborhood of Hannity and Tucker, probably a rung or two up the ladder from them. Lou Dobbs is near the top of that ladder imo. When Glen Beck said I don’t believe in Pizzagate , it begs the Q uestion . You don’t believe in the story the MSM has told you or you don’t believe children are bought and sold by a network in DC ,the District of Corruption? So the story was children are being trafficked out of Comet Pizza’s basement .A Tony Podesta hang out , the owner is the Faggotpeedo partner to the founder of Media Matters David Brock. So the conspiracy theory was debunked when the msm asked James Alfontis if he is trafficking kids from the restaurants basement. Alfontis said there wasn’t a basement. Nuff said hmmm. Except an article a year earlier during harvest of tomatoes as a promotional piece, the photo and caption was making sauce from scratch in the basement of Comet Pizza. It’s not so much that Beck didn’t look into it , it is someone who clearly sees the Evil these deletes will do and yet apply their own personal bias to how Evil some demons are. I mean healthy skepticism is fine but these deletes have shown again and again life means nothing to them if it’s not their own. Liz Crokin has laid the Pizzagate scandal wide open. At any rate Whitney also agrees with my posting for years that Technocracy is the objective for the NWO Nazi not New. Thanks for sharing. I have mixed emotions when all of what I have been talking about is confirmed. I so wish I was wrong.
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              • Posted by CaptainKirk 10 months, 1 week ago
                Well, I throw Trump in a special category.
                Same with Tucker Carlson.

                They said Tucker was a Comet Pizza consumer.

                My challenge is that if "I" ran the deep state, I would try to catch "GOOD" people with casual connections (ie, they just walked in), and PAINT them as though they could be insiders within that system.

                First, this damages their brand, causes people to doubt them, which gives you power over them. Second, it creates "What about-ism" protection. And finally, it adds to the obfuscation of the truth, which is the absolute requirement.

                I don't trust Hannity, Beck. I even have some doubts about Alex Jones.

                Dr. Shiva points out the concept of "The NOT so obvious Insider"... To which he claims Ghandi was one. Again, this makes a lot of sense. Take an american educated person, and back them silently.

                I have hope. But I've learned LONG ago that I can only have unshakeable faith in core beliefs, and not beliefs about people... Because so many have let me down. Especially in hindsight (including Ron Paul for missing the chance to tell us to BLOCK the Federal Reserve Renewal. He was willingly silenced in exchange to boost his sons prominence. And Ronald Reagan who could have destroyed the Public Unions as well has NOT granting Amnesty UNTIL AFTER the laws were change. We lost CA after him)
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                • Posted by Dobrien 10 months, 1 week ago
                  So for me , as complex an enemy that we face , the plan to save humanity also is a very detailed plan. I can’t think of a reason why that Trump is being attacked constantly with more and more ridiculous charges. I see the criminals lose the narrative and that should not happen if Trump is compromised.
                  Fox parting with Tucker is simply because they can not have the truth told and Tucker was becoming a truth teller. He is very wealthy and That means he is harder to control. Lots of people eat Pizza and until seven years ago I had no idea it was a Peedo term. Very likely 95% have never heard of the connection.
                  Trump actually has a strong history of charitable acts. Maxwell and other criminals hide behind organizations like Save the Children. Trump would donate to a cause like that and if attending any dinner , I am sure Epstien would try to rub shoulders so to speak. Trump did kick him out of Mara Lago and did assist in the 2009 case against Epstein and no other well known people did that. For me Trump is the man and I Stand with him
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    • Posted by JakeOrilley 10 months, 1 week ago
      Captain I agree with your post. With our collective ingenuity we would be able to support our population without "mandates". If someone has something to offer that would help the population, they will survive. A freeloader would not. Would we need the lightbulbs? There are many of us that know how to manufacture this..... but is it a requirement? Again going back to your statement - "a community, living disconnected, on their own, with the fruits of their own labor". The living disconnected on our own is what would be important....
      But well thought out and presented.
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  • Posted by $ 25n56il4 10 months, 1 week ago
    I haven't visited my favorite places in several years, since my BFF and traveling companion died. But we enjoyed visiting one very primitive spot up in East Texas where no one cared what you did if you didn't burn down the forest and you could camp peacefully without any interruptions. No roads thru the forest except one shell road, my RV didn't care, and no electricity, running water, or campsites. Do it yourself! Very primitive. I carried my side arm and she was more than proficient with her bow and arrows!
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  • Posted by mhubb 10 months, 1 week ago
    it can in several different ways

    i have my own personal Gulch
    i no longer offer my creativity at work, unless it suits my needs
    i do my job, but that is all
    as i feel the need to protect my family, i simply cannot pack up and run

    there may be other ways and other places where it possible.
    in this day and age of IDs and computers and government, it may require being in a different part of the world
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    • Posted by $ 10 months, 1 week ago
      Although I don't work in the best of companies, I have to say I feel somewhat lucky. I have a flexible schedule, I can work from home, I'm not micromanaged, and it's a small organization. I have never had to sit through ESG or DEI trainings (funny that used to be a given).

      I've always interpreted the Galt philosophy (I could be wrong) as "Don't work hard to support the looters," but my take is that I can work hard to support myself. Don't be a slave to others where you give your mental effort and have it taken advantage of. I think the management of my company, while not the most competent people, are not James Taggart types.
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      • Posted by term2 10 months, 1 week ago
        I have a small company, and have had a number of them over the years. I made substantial money on my first two, but since then have found a reluctance to show a profit as that profit gives taxes to the looters. I bet other people at least intrinsically take actions to not make more money that will be taxed at higher and higher rates. Other people just dont work anymore and become homeless, perhaps because they dont want to be slaves to the system. The world is definitely changing as this woke crap gets more and more prevalent. The system here just might collapse on its own like the 20th century factory in AS.
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  • Posted by tutor-turtle 10 months, 1 week ago
    All things are possible with sufficient energy resources. In our distant past, we had unlimited free energy... until that civilization destroyed themselves. Possibly even several times over millions of years. In our own time, Nikola Tesla , Thomas Moray Et.el. have tried to give us this gift. But a (exceedingly) small group of people who run this shitshow have no intention of letting us have energy independence. We are the serfs Friedrich Hayek warned us would happen if we let it. We did. So here we are, in Slavelandia, as Gerald Celente has so eloquently put it.
    The ancient technologies hidden from us for so long have to be forced out into the open. We know they exist. What are euphemistically called "UFO's" are of our own creation. The Germans were working on this technology as early as the 1930's. (Nazi Bell program) Tesla was ground into obscurity because he tried to free the masses. Moray was was assaulted, shot at, his lab repeatedly burned down his family members threatened.. until he got the message: surrender or die.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 10 months ago
      And this is the key. Even Galt recognized that the Gulch couldn't rely on outside energy production. My two thoughts are oil and thorium reactors. Thorium reactors are 1/10th the size of plutonium/uranium reactors and much safer. But without the atmospheric energy reactor of Galt's, we'd need something like this to power a community.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 10 months ago
        Instead the feds shut down oil and coal production, eliminate nuclear generation, buy weapons of war and sends them to Ukraine to enrich wastrel treasonous politicians.
        (And steal elections to insure they maintain power to crush all sane opposition.)
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  • Posted by $ 10 months, 1 week ago
    Looking at the comments... I almost wish I had never asked this question, it's stirring up much more heated discussion than I intended. To those saying, "Yes but we'd have to live at a lower standard of living" it really depends on how much lower. If I earn $100,000 and the government takes 35% of it leaving me with $65K, am I better off making only $50K and being taxed only 6% and netting $47K? I'm now $18K poorer. The fact that I won't be paying taxes on that is small comfort. But that's just my view. I love my nose as much as the rest of my face. We all have our differing opinions within the group, as is a good thing. I'm sure there are religious people among us too. But TBH, and this applies not just to this discussion, it does sadden me a bit to see a level of black-pilling and pessimism that is more than I had expected, even from people whom I generally agree with. Oh well, such is life.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 10 months, 1 week ago
      You've proven you are addicted to your 'conveniences', measure everything in the currency of the enemy, and have no idea how to value freedom. Just as the Deep State wants it.
      Stay the course and your precious USD will buy only what your masters say you can have.
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  • Posted by bobsprinkle 10 months, 1 week ago
    The underlying rhought here seems to be "WHEN not IF" the shit hits the fan, it will be a different world. If any country actually uses nukes, others will have no reason to restrain themselves.
    Is the Russian nuclear contaminated area recovering?
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    • Posted by TheRealBill 10 months, 1 week ago
      Do you mean Chernobyl? Yes it has been recovering quite well. Though in truth it wasn’t as bad as nearly everyone assumed it was led to believe.

      Given how many don’t know how quickly Hiroshima and Nagasaki were recovered it is not a surprise. Most don’t realize that within one year we were rebuilding and repopulating them. Within a decade they were back to their original population and functionality.

      Granted an air burst nuclear bomb is a bit different but even then these places aren’t dead zones for centuries.

      Chernobyl didn’t even lose all of its population- many refused to leave and stayed there, most without the mongered outcomes. In fact not only is radiation less than in many civilized places the research shows little difference due to radiation. In fact arguably it is better for the wildlife now than before - much of which was the decrease in human activity.
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    • Posted by CaptainKirk 10 months, 1 week ago
      TBH, if ANY nukes are deployed, I hereby forgive every country for launching their entire aresenal and destroying the entire planet MANY TIMES OVER.

      I say that, because we should NOT shy away from it. We must lean into it. This MUST BE A LINE that is not crossed. And, once again, SHAME on the USA for BOMBING a Nuclear Power Plant (that Russia is controlling in Ukraine). The LUNACY of these morons knows no bounds!
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      • Posted by bobsprinkle 10 months, 1 week ago
        Yes, Chernobyl is my reference. I am not trying to start a fight here but it sounds like you dont think nuclear attacks would be as devastating as many think.
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        • Posted by CaptainKirk 10 months, 1 week ago
          I KNOW they will. But Chernobyl is already liveable as I understand it.

          I believe the word would be COMPLETELY destroyed. I welcome it. Because that's what we deserve for letting it get this far out of control.
          This is a GLOBAL DARWIN AWARD!
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  • Posted by starguy 10 months, 1 week ago
    I always thought that Dagny had the right idea: stay and fight for what you want, rather than running away and hiding.
    What if John Galt had quit 20th Century Motors, and then started his own company (with Midas Mulligan's backing), manufacturing and selling his motor/power converter? And then, hiring Quentin Daniels, and people like him. Lots of such people.
    Make the world as you want it to be, rather than turning it over to people like Brandon, uh I mean Mr. Thompson, and watching them make a royal mess of things.
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    • Posted by CaptainKirk 10 months, 1 week ago
      Wasn't that the Reardon choice, exemplified. They still STOLE his Steel, his companies, etc.

      They would have stolen his company, too. That, I think, is the point she was making. You cannot trust the wolves that encircle you and promise to protect you. Especially when their other food sources dry up!
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    • Posted by Dobrien 10 months, 1 week ago
      +1👍🏻 Atlas Shrugged lacked a President Donald J Trump who has committed to never ever give up fighting the Evil . AS also lacked a Qreat Awakening operation that is evident today.
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  • Posted by $ katrinam41 10 months, 1 week ago
    For our group, moving into a small town, very small town, and gradually growing it with more Gulchers may be a simple answer. As more and more of us reach the exit point, our community will grow without causing alarm bells to go off. Keep under the radar, keep as much commerce in the town as possible, cut back on any outside anything as we can. This group has a huge talent/skill pool. We also understand what's happening out there in the big, wide world. In this day and age, isolation like the Davidians is an invitation to suicide by gov. We can't do the kind of Gulch we all want--yet--but if the country continues to slide, it won't be long before that Gulch will be a matter of survival. Start now. Let's find a place, in this country, and those who can, begin the move. There should be plenty of room to expand, climate to grow crops and raise protein, in a state that is not yet totally woke. That last qualification is imperative, or we'll be cut down before we start.
    So, where? I like places like Tennessee, Texas, a breadbasket state maybe. Anywhere there is no state income tax would be good. Any state with no Demoncrat state majority. Any state which believes in the right to defend one's right to exist. But we have to start soon, no matter which idea takes hold. Having even a whisper of a haven will be needed sooner than we want to believe.
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    • Posted by $ 10 months, 1 week ago
      New Hampshire has been tried before. It's a very independent state, no Democrat majorities, and small. The drawback is the colder climate and rocky soil is not as conducive to farming.
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  • Posted by Running4mylife 10 months, 1 week ago
    I can't bring gold, but I can cook, I can babysit, I can teach, I can offer basic first and nursing skills, and so I bring skills that can barter for food (no one is going to need a paralegal yet) every pioneering community starts small.
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    • Posted by $ 10 months, 1 week ago
      I'm an IT professional. Though I've never done this before on any large scale, I could set up computer networking. Of course we have to have a one-way firewall so we can see outside world websites but they can't see ours. I've always wanted to try my hand at cybersecurity. Never done that publicly but willing to learn.
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  • Posted by term2 10 months, 1 week ago
    The us government has pretty much closed all the loopholes. If you were totally independent and didnt trade with anyone else or need any land or resources, it would indeed be hard to tax you, although if you had any assets, they could be seized

    Galt was right that the gulch had to be totally hidden, but that would be essentially impossible today with all the spy satellites. More than a few people would be detected like the waco and ruby ridge people were, and then would be destroyed.

    Best we can do is reduce out standard of living to reduce the interactions that could be traced by the government. Living in small groups under the radar is about all we can do, and that would be at a substantially reduced standard of living.

    There IS the passive and active revolution solution. First, we weaken the state by substantially reducing the GDP and therefore the taxation. Second, we develop an alternative method of wealth transfer enabling trade that cannot be traced by the government. Third, we stockpile and hide gold. After that is done, secession from the usa would be a reasonable solution, but it would be met by the remaining military as was the case in the first civil war. Thats my two cents.
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    • Posted by $ 10 months, 1 week ago
      But of course the taxation issue is becoming less and less because of the printing of money and devaluation of the dollar. Refusing to "work for the looters" and pay taxes matters much less to them than it used to be, since they can print money whenever they feel like it. As bad as overtaxing is, borrowing is worse, and printing exponentially so.
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      • Posted by term2 10 months, 1 week ago
        That is right. But, why the 86,000 new armed IRS agents they conveniently put after us.
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        • Posted by Dobrien 10 months, 1 week ago
          That is a 10 year number for new agents about 8500 a year, and it is largely do to retiring agents. The arming of the agents goes against the defund the police narrative.
          It’s fine to have armed agents for so called financial crimes but not for violent crimes against the chattel. These things need to be seen, you can’t tell anyone.
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