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  • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 1 month ago
    if you need something
    consider a Ruger PC 9mm Carbine

    can use Glock 17 (19), Ruger SR9 mags (comes with those adapters

    other adapters to use Sig 320 and Beretta mags are available

    9mm from a 16" barrel is effective

    my 2 are Take Downs, so they fit in a backpack, along with ammo, mags, a pistol
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    • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
      Good to know, mhubb. đź‘Ť
      Years back, used a friend's Marlin Camp 9 with a folding stock. Very easy to shoot and accurate at 100 yds,
      the farthest I used it. I think Marlin stopped production about 20 years ago.
      iirc, it could use an S&W magazine.
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      • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 1 month ago
        think MP-40...
        they also come in 40S&W

        i got His and Hers LOL
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        • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
          A friend recently bought a Henry Bog Boy in .357 and I'm really looking forward to trying it at the range. Its a beautiful rifle.
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          • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
            I bought the Henry Model X for my 357 rifle. Liked the receiver and tube loading feature, and the round bolt. It is nice, but the sights were way off. Think I'd do the Marlin if I did it again.
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          • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 1 month ago
            i had one of those and one in 45 Colt
            both were fun and accurate

            they were the ones without side loading gates, so i sold them, i got Rossi versions with side loading gates, combat weapons (for some reason....:-) )
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            • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
              I think my friend's loads in the tube and has an octagonal barrel.
              How did your Rossi's compare to the Henry's?
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              • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 1 month ago
                to be honest, i think the Henry's were better constructed

                the Rossi is fine for its purpose, neither would be a primary grab in case of an emergency

                a 357 out of either (_Henry or Rossi) has about the same energy as a 556, around 1300 foot-pounds
                i like having multiple for the same caliber

                one issue with my Henry, a friend's son put a 38 special into the tube backwards, was a pain to get out
                that day we had lots of toys for them both to play with, Garands, M1 Carbines, ARs, the son LOVED the Henry, with 38s, it was like a BB gun for recoil
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                • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
                  I see a significant advantage to having a rifle/carbine that uses the same ammunition as one's handgun, especially in an life threatening emergency.
                  So if one has a .357 revolver and one must choose between an AR15 or a .357 carbine (assuming that they have very similar capabilities), only having to carry one caliber of ammunition is a significant advantage in a bug-out.
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                  • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 1 month ago
                    that is my ideal plan
                    i can give someone a set all using the same ammo
                    and in most places, 75-100 yards is enough range
                    357, 44, 9mm, 10mm are the sets i have now

                    go with an AR-57 and FN Five Seven

                    the AR-57 has 50 round mags in states that can read the Constitution
                    and Five-Seven can have 20 or 30 round mags

                    the 5.7x28mm is a very, very nasty round

                    i have
                    AR-57
                    PS-90
                    Five Seven
                    with 10 round mags, i make ammo also

                    my plan (civil unrest)
                    i have a AR-15A2 clone, will carry that
                    i will carry a 45ACP pistol
                    may carry a M1 Carbine as backup

                    other options are availa also, depending upon what is going on

                    PTR-91
                    M-14SA
                    SOCOM-16
                    Garands
                    FNAR (accurate long range, get one if you see one)

                    1903 Springfields are good options also, if you have to bail from your home
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  • Posted by Ben_C 1 year, 1 month ago
    It seems to me that the more the "government" threatens "common sense gun control laws" the greater the increase of gun sales. I box for sport and carry for protection. If my left hook doesn't get the bad guy my Sig will do the deed.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 1 year, 1 month ago
    For those of the members who have difficulty in racking a standard semi-auto pistol due to arthritis in their hands the Smith & Wesson M&P Shield EZ in either 9mm or 380. My local sporting goods store which has very knowledgeable employees helped me choose the said firearm when I explained my physical disability. It made a big difference in my participation in my local gun club.
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 1 year, 1 month ago
    Get a bayonet!!!

    With the price of BULLETS these days. After you wound them with the gun, just a little slice on the sides of the neck, insides of the thigh, and let father time run his course.

    Washing the bayonet is much cheaper. Besides, when you are out of ammo... It's still a useful weapon! (especially if you are the only one who knows)
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  • Posted by term2 1 year, 1 month ago
    I think guns were a great investment in personal safety, but the hatred of guns by the government has made it much more difficult to actually use them for defense now without suffering major attacks from the government.

    Its time to develop new weapons which will immobilize from a distance, but not kill the attackers. Foil the attacker, but not give them or the government the ability to drag us into court and perhaps jail us for a long time. Develop these and one would become rich before the government tries to make even these illegal to own.
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    • Posted by CaptainKirk 1 year, 1 month ago
      So, once you admit you don't want to be sued...
      You THINK that wont be the attack.

      We have drivers being paid, to pull in front of SEMI TRUCKS and brake hard, to collect the insurance payouts, and the legal extortion (they know the settlement numbers).

      They will purposefully attack you. There is ZERO consequence to their bad actions. Worse case, they will PREY ON YOU with a bigger group.

      I disagree. Kill them. Kill them hard. Kill them Fast. And pay the lawyers to do their job.
      If you lose, you FIGHT IT ever step of the way.

      I would rather die fighting, than on my knees!
      And I would MUCH RATHER take as many with me, as I can.
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      • Posted by term2 1 year, 1 month ago
        I really dont want to fight things like this in our courts. Best to avoid that if possible, while still remaining alive and keeping my stuff. If someone is hell bent on killing me, he is going to die by my hand for sure and right there on the spot
        But if I can thwart the attack by non lethal means, I would rather do that than go through the courts
        I think attackers would be much less inclined to attack if they knew I could simply stop the attack thereby preventing them from gaining anything.

        If I was a cop, theres no way I would shoot a black person,. Given this, I would never BE a cop in this country at this time.

        Take away the courts, and an attacker would most assuredly die if he/she tried an attack on me or anyone else close by
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  • Posted by Exitstageright 1 year, 1 month ago
    Liberty Civil Defense mfgs a 9 mm 50 grain hollow point that scoots along at 2200 FPS in a SA pistol, 2600 FPS in a 16” carbine.
    That is a game changer.
    I reload and make cast bullets, but I can’t find a die set to cast this bullet, nor a bullets sales source. But for now, I buy LCD ammo for my back up, in case I’m attacked by angry mutant watermelons…
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    • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
      Thanks, exitsr. đź‘Ť
      That looks very good, 1.40/rd at present (plus shipping and tax.)
      As Thor indictated, you don't need to stack them too deep ... yet.
      I have liked the performance of Winchester Ranger T in reviews, too, but this would be an excellent one to load.
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    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
      I wondered about this. You only need 50-100 for self-defense. Can practice with normal ammo, right?
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      • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
        there are some reviews here that agree with that:
        https://palmettostatearmory.com/liber...
        (Palmetto does not have the best price, just some reviews.)
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        • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
          I have bought AR parts from them before. Good company. I get cheap stuff from Delta Defense.

          I did a bunch of 9mm ammo research for wound channel etc. Can't remember the best. I have to start writing stuff down.

          Big fan of 10mm. Too bad it is so expensive, and there aren't too many 10 mm carbines. 9mm doesn't gain much in a longer barrel, but 40 S&W does, and 10mm does some too. You can shoot 40 S&W in most 10mm's. I'd really like a 10mm carbine. That has a lot more energy than 9mm, almost like 357 mag.

          Great website: http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/ - it is no longer maintained. I should see if I can take over. GREAT data!
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          • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
            That's one of my favorite firearm websites. Always open in a tab of my browser for near instant analysis.
            .40 is definitely more powerful than 9mm regardless of the barrel length.

            The Ranger T 9mm round that I mentioned elsewhere is the reincarnation of the Black Talon 9mm.
            Black Talon got a reputation in the 90's and was removed from production.
            (The moron media called it a 'cop-killer' bullet because it could shred a thin poorly designed vest -
            thanks to government stupid vest specs.)
            Then later, quietly production was restarted without the black coating or the name.
            Black Talons sell now for about $8-$10 a round due to limited supply and infamy.
            The Ranger T is about $0.80 a round for the same good personal defense performance.
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            • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
              Thanks for the defense ammo data.

              Re 40. My point was that 9mm is designed to get maximum energy out of a pistol barrel. It doesn't benefit much from a longer barrel. Many other rounds (40, 10mm, 357 sig, 357 mag, et al) take great advantage of a longer barrel.

              Really wish 30 carbine went further. That is a great round! Great in a rifle. Great in the few pistols it was available in. Flatter than 38 super, et al. More powerful than most pistol rounds, and WAY more powerful in a rifle barrel. It got a bad rap in Korea, with nonsense about thick clothes (or frozen clothes) stopping it. Complete nonsense. My brother bought a Ruger Redhawk in it. I can't bring myself to pay the crazy numbers for the semi auto someone made (can't remember it). When I get better at gunsmithing, I'll make one.
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              • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
                Am I reading the 9mm energy charts incorrectly?
                It appears to me that the Corbon and Speer 9mm rounds shown are getting 40-50% increased energy from the 18" barrel over the 3".
                The federal 9mm are lower energy performers but may have other benefits.
                If I choose the Speer Gold Dot 9mm round that was tested, I get higher energy (and 300-400 higher fps) in a carbine.
                The .357 magnum looks like the real winner on carbine energy, but it loses on handgun number of rounds without re-loading.
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                • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
                  Yeah, a was looking at full size barrels 4.5"-6", not carry pistols.

                  One of my favorite arguments to "tough guys" with 357 snub noses is that 38 is just as powerful in a 6" barrel. 357 in a short barrel is just a fireball toy, not a practical round.

                  I'd just carry a 22 magnum, if the rim fire was reliable. I don't think I've ever met someone I'd be threatened by with a couple of 22 magnum holes in them. Somehow I have a mental block against 25, so I just stay with 9mm.
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                  • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
                    For concealed carry it's hard to beat 9mm.
                    Lots of good choices. Relatively cheap, reliable, accurate (as the shooter) and with the right round, good defense.
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                    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
                      Right. Just couldn't get excited about 380 size/recoil vs 9mm cost/punch.

                      Gotta look more into these light, high velocity rounds with expanding/break apart hollow points. I worry a bit about over penetration, and little about vests (maybe changing). Need to look more at these unusual rounds.

                      Do you reload?
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                      • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
                        No, I did many years ago, but sold all my stuff when I moved overseas.
                        It had been sitting in the boxes unused for years by then.
                        Sometimes I wish I had kept it all, but, otoh, I could replace it easily and I haven't done so.
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              • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 1 month ago
                sorry, wrong
                9mm out of a 16" Ruger PC Carbine gains 200 -300 feet per second
                that extra velocity allows the 9mm to go through level 3 body armor

                and i relaod so i can use the best power needed

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJYce...
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                • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
                  Test data with factory ammo shows much better pickup from longer barrels with anything other than 9mm. No doubt you can do anything with your own loads.

                  I maintain that whatever you are doing with 9mm, you can do more with 40, 10, 357 Sig, et al.

                  ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/9mm....
                  ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/40sw...

                  I haven't spent anytime looking at velocity in something like a 50 grain bullet, but if penetrating body armor is the objective, that is the way to go.
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                  • Posted by Exitstageright 1 year, 1 month ago
                    Bullet speed really does matter, especially for kinetic energy damage. Ya’ll might find this interesting.

                    https://youtu.be/jAnf-Gd1298

                    These rounds may be what Bidet is referring to about “blowing a lung out” with the all powerful 9mm weapon of war.

                    Maybe I should just stick with my DE 50 AE. Kinda hard to conceal tho….
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                    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
                      Bullet speed relates to kinetic energy by the square of speed, and linear with bullet mass. So yes, speed matters. There are a pile of tradeoffs in the physics of knockdown, from penetration, to wound cavity. The key is energy transfer.

                      For handguns, bullet speed leads to over penetration, unless the argument is around vest penetration. Both a 9mm and 22 magnum will go right through a person, causing a wound channel that is the bullet diameter plus the energy transferred in the passage.

                      What is different in this video is the energy transferred. This is due to the bullet features. The bullet is clearly expanding and/or coming apart in the higher velocity rounds. If this was a 2,200 fps FMJ, the bullet would go in/out, just like the slower ones. The energy has to transfer to make the water melon explode or a big wound channel. Velocity itself does not cause this energy transfer.

                      Regardless, 40cal, 10mm and 357 Sig are/can be better than 9mm for either velocity or muzzle energy. Which was my original point. The other end of the argument (which is annoying) is the 45 ACP, a big bullet, and rarely over-penetrates, but has has limited capacity, and limited muzzle energy.

                      DE 50 AE is cool. Looks and bragging rights over performance, but damn cool.
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  • Posted by $ 25n56il4 1 year, 1 month ago
    I can't believe all the guns being turned in when Houston, Tx has their buyback days. Something strange about the large number being surrendered.
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    • Posted by Exitstageright 1 year, 1 month ago
      25n, I have a buddy I used to work with when we were younger whose son followed footsteps and-is a cop in Houston. He was at the August buyback in 2022. They garnered over 800 guns at a cost of a 100 grand. The vast majority were old Mausers with no bolts, Stevens single shot shotguns with broken triggers, one guy even turned in some 3D printed “ghost guns” that were no more functional than most of Bidet’s cabinet. Trash for cash. The ones that weren’t were obviously snatch and grabs for quick cash, er “gift cards”.
      It’s a hoot when libtards get played, and too stoopid to even know they got in the deal a greasy feeling down under..
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  • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
    Top sales by manufacturer in 2022:
    1. Ruger
    2. Sig Sauer
    3. Smith & Wesson
    4. Glock
    5. Springfield Armory
    6. Mossberg
    7. Taurus
    8. Colt
    9. Henry repeating Arms
    10. Beretta
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    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
      Ruger and Mossberg are just great companies.

      Ruger is totally doing the Marlin line right, moving it, making the designs manufacturable, and doing one line at a time.

      I really wanted a Ruger GP100 for my revolvers, but can't reach over the frame to the hammer with my thumb.

      I'm shocked S&W hasn't given MA the bird yet. Colt is moving out of CT, and Mossberg did too.

      I was all done with Colt after machining the seer-block out of an AR lower so I could put a normal upper on it, and finding out why they put them in. They had a Army general as CEO who though civilians should not own firearms. He was happy to screw them up like this, and only wanted military sales. When they lost AR manufacture due to poor quality, they almost went under. That company was a complete mess, surviving on name only ... until CZ bought them last year.

      CZ from Czechoslovakia, the country that voted in their own, new 2nd Amendment a couple of years ago!!! Those people are minded like us, and disparately from Europe! CZ may turn the Colt-cesspool around.
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      • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 1 month ago
        for some reason the Ruger SP101 and GP100 are very pricy

        love my snub SP101,

        i have 2 Mossberg MVP Bolt Actions
        the 556 one uses AR-15 mags
        the 308 one uses AR-10 mags
        very accurate
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  • Posted by $ Markus_Katabri 1 year, 1 month ago
    A distinct lack of EvilBlackRifles. Interesting....
    That people were ponying up the extra fiat for the Mossy 590 over the 500 tells me that Home Defense is on everyone’s mind. A few lone wolves are ready to Snipe their way into SHTF with the 700s.
    The lever action Henry is just for cool sake in my opinion.
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  • Posted by $ katrinam41 1 year, 1 month ago
    I love SSA's for home defense and plinking. .45acp in both SSA and semi-auto pistols, and .22lr for long gun and smaller SSA, .380 for summer carry. Ruger and Colt fit my hand, S&W has yet to make one that works for me. Used to have a Firestar 9mm and loved it. First handgun was a P.25, second was a Security 6 .357mag. Gave my .30-.30 to my brother (Winchester Model 94--loved it) and really miss my medium sporter in .45-70., just to name a few :)
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    • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
      I loved the Firestar 9mm, too. Practically no recoil due to the weight and very accurate as a result.
      Small enough to easily carry concealed. Firestar's still appear for sale on occasion at reasonable prices.
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      • Posted by $ katrinam41 1 year, 1 month ago
        I still have the paper plate I used as a target so many years ago. 1" center circle completely shot out at 9 yards in less than 4 seconds (timed by my late husband, a Guadalcanal 1st Div. Marine). I do love those Firestars :)
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
    I went with the Sig 365 for my carry pistol. Had the SAS sights. I was just not accurate with it, so I sold it to a buddy, and got a conventional sight model. Then I decided to build a 365 XL, after trying a friends. It is so much nicer in my hand, I've switched to it for carry even though it is bigger.
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    • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
      I plan to range test a friend's 365 soon.
      The XL extra inch probably adds 50fps and 50ft-lbs.
      Plan to also try a Kimber Mako and a H&K VP9SK ... looking for a CCW.
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      • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
        I have a mental block against HKs. They are like BMWs. Nice, but expensive, snotty service, and from a country where you can't own them.

        One of my soccer buddies who I got into shooting has a full size VP9. Nice gun!

        I'm really in to CZ 75s. With my Shadow 2, I can put 4-5 mags into a 6" circle at 75 ft. Take a look at the CZ 75 compact. It feels SOOO good in your hand!
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        • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 1 month ago
          i have 3 PTR-91s, HK G3 clones

          awesome Battle Rifles, a bit heavy, accurate, they like steel cased ammo (like TULA), did i mention they are accurate?

          less expensive than a G3
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  • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 1 month ago
    another good option is a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun

    #7 or #8 birdshot will likely not go through an outside home wall

    for my Mossberg 500, i have the mini shell adapter, mini shells are less likely to over penetrate
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 1 year, 1 month ago
    Saw Sig Sauers but not my P938 that I conceal carry as a "pocket pistol."
    My Remington 870 shotgun is a match on your list.
    I had to annually NRA qualify with it when I worked for the Alabama Department Of Corrections for 21 years.
    Bought mine for its familiarity when invited to a dove hunt about 8 years into that career. Had no trouble bagging several birds and pan fried their beasts. Yum!
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