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Another analysis of Ukraine

Posted by $ blarman 1 month, 2 weeks ago to History
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I thought I'd add one more scholarly look at the basket-case which is the Ukraine/Black Sea region. The author lays out some of the history of the region as well as the less-admirable aspects of US involvement.

Another way to look at it is the Cuban Missile Crisis - just reversed. Can anyone really fault Putin for not wanting HIMARS systems - potentially nuclear tipped - right off his border and especially in a region which has been affiliated with Russia for hundreds of years?
SOURCE URL: https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/complications-of-the-ukraine-war/


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  • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Thanks Blair, A good piece with historical context. There is no democracy in Ukraine, the leadership is nothing but a bunch of psychotic mobsters . Just like the US. The sovereignty of the citizens was stolen by the Obama color revolution. Just like 2020 election right here . Much of this has been discussed on this board already. The essay does not touch on the George Soros ,Victoria Nuland, Clinton Foundation, Adam Schiff , Romney, Biden, Pelosi, Kolomoisky, Petro absolute shit show of corruption including child Trafficking ( remember Jeffrey Epstiens plane flew to Ukraine 2 dozen times) to Money laundering to Antifa / neoNazi training. To weapons theft and Likely drugs. When all those above con artists say Putin bad , something tells me he is justified for his actions. Like biolabs and a NATO threat.
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      Posted by craigerb 1 month, 2 weeks ago
      Wow. This must be a record for cramming conspiracy theories in one post, even for you.
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      • Posted by $ 1 month, 2 weeks ago
        You may have missed the post where we had a great analysis of the scientific method. In that it was pointed out that in order for an idea to be promoted to the point of being a "theory" it has to undergo rigorous testing and support.

        I know popular culture ignores this aspect about theories and treats them as less than hypotheses, but we should point out to them that there is significant evidence for each and every one of the items here which is ignored only at one's own peril.
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          Posted by craigerb 1 month, 2 weeks ago
          Do you have a link to the referenced post?
          Did any of Dobrien's rant meet your "rigorous testing and support" criterion?
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          • Posted by $ 1 month, 2 weeks ago
            I'll turn this around on you: what evidence do you have to the contrary?

            Pick a topic. I'm all for a good debate which gives both sides a chance to offer their arguments, framework, and support. (I'm a certified State Debate Judge.) If you care to do so, I'm more than happy to listen to what you have to say.

            This is the best forum on the internet (IMHO) for reasoned debate. And we're more than happy - and capable - of poking holes in poorly-devised arguments. I've been justifiably skewered several times and come out the better in the end as a result. So if you have such a rhetorical kebab, toss it on the fire!
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  • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    The media filters and distorts whatever Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin says, so here is an actual excerpt from a real address on September 30, 2022.
    (I think he is using the word "satanist" in the same way one might exaggerate to make a valid lesser point.)

    VVP does not want to war with the West. He does not want to engage with them. Russia has turned its back on the West, and the rest of the world is not regretting that the US is no longer the "King of the Countries."

    (excerpt)

    “Let’s answer some very simple questions for ourselves. Now I would like to return to what I said and want to address also all citizens of the country – not just the colleagues that are in the hall – but all citizens of Russia: do we want to have here, in our country, in Russia, “parent number one, parent number two and parent number three” (they have completely lost it!) instead of mother and father? Do we want our schools to impose on our children, from their earliest days in school, perversions that lead to degradation and extinction? Do we want to drum into their heads the ideas that certain other genders exist along with women and men and to offer them gender reassignment surgery? Is that what we want for our country and our children? This is all unacceptable to us. We have a different future of our own.

    Let me repeat that the dictatorship of the Western elites targets all societies, including the citizens of Western countries themselves. This is a challenge to all. This complete renunciation of what it means to be human, the overthrow of faith and traditional values, and the suppression of freedom are coming to resemble a “religion in reverse” – pure Satanism. Exposing false messiahs, Jesus Christ said in the Sermon on the Mount: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” These poisonous fruits are already obvious to people, and not only in our country but also in all countries, including many people in the West itself.”
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    I believe I shared the videos from others showing how it is NATO who has encroached on Russia's Borders.
    NATO that Torments Russia (Even Biden said it EXISTS to torment Russia).

    The truth is that there is a CYLCE to everything (Life, Governments, Beliefs, etc).

    And it is natural for people to want to move society in certain directions. When you have too much freedom and opportunity dissenters clamor for more govt control. And do things to initiate it's necessity.

    So, as Russia was the first big ALL-IN Communism with some success... As it failed. It only had ONE DIRECTION to travel towards. That was more individual Freedom. That was CLOSER to capitalism. And boy has she! (Honestly, if you saw the changes I've witnessed since 1990s until a few years ago. AMAZING. Nicer/better stores than we have!)

    China is doing all kinds of NASTY stuff. But notice we are not upset with them to the point of wanting to start a nuclear war. China killed far more people internally, etc. Not barely a word!

    Ever Since Russia started kicking out the Globalists... The banksters... He became Public Enemy #1.
    And we've done a LOT to irritate him. (Striking that bridge, blowing up THEIR pipelines. We are now the terrorists!)
    [But haven't we always been, after Kennedy was taken out?]

    If I were in charge of America, I would let go of Ukraine. I would spend ALL of that money creating and deploying GEN IV Nuclear reactors, with a state goal of 100% of our electrical grid provided by ZERO Carbon Nuclear Power Plants that CONSUME the WASTE product of the OLD nuclear power plants!

    And be rebuilding our infrastructure, protecting our grid from EMP, in ways where once an area gets to NUCLEAR power, the grid could be severed... Forcing all the states to do it, to avoid the exposure.

    Because as long as we have electricity, we can have a modern life.
    WHEN (and not if), that electricity stops. The death toll will make Communism look like a Dry Run!
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    • Posted by mccannon01 1 month, 2 weeks ago
      Had to +1 all that, CaptainKirk.

      "China is doing all kinds of NASTY stuff..." I think China gets a pass from the left and its media is because it hasn't publicly thrown out communism. Russia has and, therefore, has earned the ire of the American left. They hate Russia and want it destroyed for poking Marx in the eye.
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  • Posted by mhubb 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    i still do not know why NATO still exists
    except to fill the pockets of politicians
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    • Posted by $ 1 month, 2 weeks ago
      I think at one point in time it fulfilled a noble ideal - that of banding together nations against a singular threat. No one can doubt that that threat - Russia - was very real. One can certainly entertain a healthy debate about whether or not that threat still remains and to what potency.

      The problem is that - as you point out - it has turned from a self-defense treaty into a political one. In that way it is not dissimilar to the various treaties negotiated between WW I and WW II between England, France, and Germany. The fallout has certainly been similar: just as England and France pushed Germany into a corner following WW I, NATO's courting of Ukraine performs a similar maneuver in boxing in Russia. The other members of NATO have also neglected to attain to their responsibilities - especially when it comes to defense spending. This further degrades the notion of NATO as a military defense body and enhances its appearance as nothing but a political body.

      In my opinion, the United States should look to cement one-on-one alliances with key players but leave NATO unless all of its members agree to return to focusing on self-defense as per NATO's key charter. Given that every other nation involved in NATO has devolved into socialism, I seriously doubt this will happen.

      But before I would worry too much about NATO, I'd ditch the United Nations. There is no more corrupt, elitist bunch of supercilious snobs than those. They turn their noses up at the United States despite our funding 1/3 of all UN activities. I would cut off that funding and withdraw our support and let them see what they do.
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  • Posted by tutor-turtle 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Put it in perspective: Putin places troops and advanced nuclear tipped missiles in Quebec Canada and Juarez Mexico with the promises of absolution protection by joining the Eastern Block Nations. This is what NATO has done to Russia. No matter what you think of Russia as a nation or their ideology, NATO has put a loaded gun to their head. I am honestly surprised Russia hasn't bombed the snot out of Poland yet. They have it coming. I wouldn't waste a tear on them when it happens, and it will happen. The extra-constitutional 3-letter-agency (made up of Wall Street Lawyers) initiated a color revolution in 2014 that resulted in a coup of the democratically elected president. What took its place are neo-nazis, right down to the swastika tattoos on their soldiers arms. What happened to our Republic? This nation has become as dirty as dirty, corrupt and untrustworthy as any in history. This can not possibly end well.
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  • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    In Scientology, we have this "3rd Party Law". It says something like "If two people don't get along, the problem can usually be traced to an unknown 3rd person." For example, a meddling in-law gossipping in the ear of one partner in a marriage, causes the marriage to founder.

    One can apply this maxim to nations. Russia and Ukraine have been integrated, intermingled and intermarried for generations. My best friends in Simferopol ("sim-fer OPAL" if you're wondering) are married - a Ukrainian woman and Russian man. But the US has been interfering in national relations between Ukraine-Russia for a couple of decades now.

    The US has only itself to blame for this conflict.

    https://www.scientology.tv/series/l-r...
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    • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
      The US is trying to keep putin occupied in Ukraine- neither to win or lose. If putin wind ukraine, he will just move on to poland and then we have ww3
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      • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
        Poland already has a lot of soldiers in Ukraine, so they have chosen to be involved and to kill Russians. Is Russia supposed to ignore this fact? That said, why would Russia want to assume welfare payments for 40 million deadbeat Poles? Just get rid of their war machine and let them fend for themselves.

        In Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania, ethnic Russians are not allowed to vote and are discriminated against when running businesses or owning property.

        Yes, these are human rights violations and following the US and NATO examples, it is okay to invade countries which violate fundamental Human Rights.
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        • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
          That whole area is deficient in so many areas of human rights that no solution is really close to perfect. But war is not a solution for sure, and putin is wrong to simply invade to get his way.

          Russia is way too paranoid about the west invading russia. I just dont see anyone in the west actually wanting to attack russia militarily. When he is so paranoid, it makes me think this is psychological projection more than anything. I watched Oliver Stone's interview with Putin, and he seemed (at least at the time) to be fairly reasonable and amenable to discourse.
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          • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 1 month, 2 weeks ago
            Most countries, I would have said ours at one point, would have taken a very hard, perhaps violent stance, toward a nation having bio-weapons labs on its border, and that's even without a strategic port.
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  • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    So if Putin takes over ukraine and has 40 million people ready to assassinate him at their first opportunity, what does he really gain. There is Poland, which is staunchly against Russia (remember russia invaded them at the start of WW2), and will be a distinct enemy of russia right on its border.
    Fact is that Russia is a communist country which can only exist by taking over other countries continually. I dont see any threat to Russia from the west, as long as Russia isnt a threat to everyone else.
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    • Posted by $ 1 month, 2 weeks ago
      "So if Putin takes over ukraine and has 40 million people ready to assassinate him at their first opportunity..."

      Actual polling from only a couple of years ago put the sensibilities of the people in Crimea better than 90% in favor with Russia. Among the reasons cited in the article you have several hundred years of culture. I'd take about five zeroes off your estimate there.

      You are right about Poland. They hate Russia not only for splitting them with the Germans at the beginning of the war but the way they allowed 50% of Warsaw to be slaughtered by the Nazis at the end of the war just so Russia could install a puppet leader. There is no love lost between those two nations and it is why Poland is actually one NATO member the US has always been able to depend on since their breakoff in the 90's.

      "Fact is that Russia is a communist country..."

      I'd actually put Russia's current state far closer to a dictatorship or oligarchy for the simple fact that Putin is king. But the underlying economy and such has changed radically: where once literally everything was controlled by the Politburo, you now have Putin actually supporting private industry to a growing degree. Conditions have changed there. It's not a great western market and there is still a thriving black market, but when you consider that Russian history includes precisely ZERO familiarity with individual rights, I'd like to give them credit for trying. It's easy for us to overlook here in the United States, but even scholars admit that the US was remarkably used to self-rule for nearly a century prior to the Declaration of Independence. Russia has only been at this for about twenty years in comparison.
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      • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
        If Ukranians were ok with Russia, there wouldnt be a Zelensky and all those Ukranian soldiers fighting the russians. They know the evil behind the russian government and want nothing to do with it. I say let the Ukranians vote and let the chips fall as they may.

        That said, what Putin is doing is just wrong and he deserves to lose big time.
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        • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
          The "Ukrainian" soldiers are increasingly Polish and increasingly African and Middle Eastern mercenaries, what the US labels "terrorists."

          The Ukrainian oligarchs organized their own private armies, to protect their wealth had their own groupings of armed militants, such as Azov battalion, some of whom have Nazi tattoos.

          My tax dollars are supporting the Ukrainian mafia - the oligarch structure - and an army which includes thousands of violent thugs released from prison on promise to fight in the army, and NATO's imported Middle Eastern terrorists who commit unreported war crimes.
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          • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
            the real issue is how to stop Putin in his march to increase his power and the power of expansionist russia. This is very similar to stopping Hitler and his expansionist germany. The question is if you know what they are going to do, when is the best time to stand up and fight.

            One can argue that assisting ukraine ISNT the place to make a stand against Russia's expansion. I am not sure about the answer to this, but at some point none of us will be safe the more power russia and its dictator are. We waited too long to go after Hitler, and look what happened. If we draw the line at Poland after Putin has assimilated the wealth of Ukraine, will be just be fighting a stronger Russia anyway?
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            • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
              Like I said, you have been driven mad by the media.

              The media lies to you. About Coivd, about the 2020 "election," about Trump Collusion with Russia, about Ukraine, about Russia and about the whole gamut of US domestic issues.

              Putin is not Hitler.
              Putin is not Satan.

              There is no such thing as "Russian Expansionism."
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              • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                The military conflict in Eastern Europe has been raging for 8 months now. The hostilities demanded consolidation and cooperation between the Western countries from the very outset on 24 February. Our politicians in the White House as well as overseas in Whitehall, London, and other European capitals united at once to withstand Russia’s attempts to violate the existing world order. At least that is what we heard from the mass media. The West should work hard to provide Kyiv with massive military and financial aid, they said.

                It is the very moment where the fundamental pillar of the idea of “good Ukrainians” and “bad and vicious Russians” appears.
                However, solidarity between a bunch of state leaders is much easier to establish than between the citizens of countries. Our people demand logic and a fair explanation as to why they have to pay a fortune for a certain Ukraine and a certain Zelensky – who, it is said, will withstand Russian aggression with bravery and passion.

                Our authorities utilised the media to persuade us, the people, that we should be tolerant and perceive Ukrainians as our own fellows. The main idea was, and remains, that both the Western and Ukrainian spirits have common values including inalienable human rights, democracy, courtesy etc.

                At once our media turned Mr. Zelensky from a bribe taker who fuelled corruption into an innocent progressive country leader.

                Moreover, these 8 months have proved that freedom of speech and an honest government are not familiar notions for Ukraine. What can we talk about when there is a single information source for each Ukrainian mass media and TV? Have you heard that all political parties opposing the ruling party have been officially banned in Ukraine? I doubt it because our media do not emphasise these “insignificant events.”

                Independent journalists and newspapers no longer exist in Ukraine as many of them are already in prison, many others have been killed and the rest are either scared to death or fleeing the war-torn state.
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                • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                  Here is a source on Ukraianian state-sponsored terrorism against its own journalists :

                  https://www.rt.com/russia/564217-ukra...

                  Russia used to be bad, I stayed at a Journalist's apartment in a Russian city where the mafia had some power, and there was kidnapping and worse but that was 15 years ago. That area has been cleaned up. Things are much better now.

                  Not so Ukraine.
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                  Posted by craigerb 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                  "Independent journalists and newspapers no longer exist in Ukraine as many of them are already in prison, many others have been killed and the rest are either scared to death or fleeing the war-torn state."
                  Did you mean to say "Russia"?
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              • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                What would you call the buildup of the Soviet Union, from Lenin to Stalin, to the other leaders of Soviet Russia with the exception of Gorbachov (and look what happened to him). There seems to be a real defect in the Russian culture that leads the russians to behave in an expansionist mode over a LONG period of time. The czars werent any better really. Human rights dont seem to occupy an important place in Russian culture. Putin is NOT Hitler, but in many ways he acts LIKE Hitler. Both were dictators, both were power hungry using as an excuse the patriotism of the mother/father land, and both got rid of political adversaries.

                I am not sure what the Satan construct really is, so I dont call anyone Satan. Not sure what even means.

                As to our media, I agree totally that what we hear from them is very suspect
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                • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                  You should go and visit Russia, although it's a bit sketchy now. :) Nothing anyone ever says to you will ever impress you as much as your own experiences. Don't stay in Moscow, the world's most expensive city, go to a provincial city, like Samara or Togliatti, that is more enjoyable. Or Crimea. They are truly Russians, too. I was invited into peoples' homes for dinner, solely because I was an American, in Ukraine and in Russia. A beautiful girl followed me around all day just so she could practice her English. They are great people. Ukraine is much more corrupt if you run a business, it's just a way of life for them, payoffs for doing nothing. If you do go there, go in summer. Russian winter is very cold. My friend runs a Bed n Breakfast in Samara. http://stayinsamara.com.

                  Under Putin, the standard of living is about the same as Sweden or of Finland, filtered by the exchange rate of the Ruble, of course, so the GDP figures are distorted.

                  Stalin was a long time ago, when all countries had to expand or they would be "contracted against." We need to let go of the past and past injustices. I can't stand people in the US who continually rail about past injustices as if I had anything to do with such history. In fact, my ancestors died (I am from NY), 500,000 of them, to free the slaves, but who offers me a recompense?

                  The past is past and can't be undone. And today, the world is embracing a new paradigm, where there truly is a "community of nations" and not one "King Country". There will be better communication and affinity (when the oligarchs controlling social media are disenfranchised), leading to greater understanding around the globe, with planetwide agreements, between individuals, groups and nations.

                  Nostradamus predicted this "new paradigm" in the 1400s. The next couple years are going to be turbulent, so hang onto your hat, Tectonic plates are shifting and the Earth will never be the same.
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                  • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                    It seems to me that statism is slowly taking over day by day, however. It doesnt feel very good, and its going to kill off the capitalist system we have here in the usa. As the usa declines, its opening up the doors for the dictators to expand their spheres of influence, and it will go against that "community of nations" you mention. As globalization declines and the stronger go after the weaker, the world will revert to a previous dangerous time.
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                    • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                      Don't think in terms of the past. It's a new paradigm, coming down the road, like a runaway train. It may be turbulent for a while, but the future will be glorious.The forces of evil (the oligarchs limiting our Human Rights) will be exposed and defeated, and America will become great again, even if the rest of the world has to help pull it back to its greatness. (Edgar Cayce predicted that in the 1930's).
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                      • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                        But we have an intellectual problem now, not a purely money supply issue like in the 30's. People are driven emotionally now, at the expense of reason. The only thing going in favor of things improving is for the results of leftism to be so bad that people will rethink what we do. This is the end game that AR proposed in AS. I kind of think that this is the only way we will get back to freedom.
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            • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 1 week ago
              https://www.redvoicemedia.com/video/2...
              Russia sends 100 tons of food and medicine to Ukraine.
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              • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                I am changing my view about supporting Ukraine like I did. There isnt a lot to be gained for the USA to risk nuclear war over it. The USA probably cant actually prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine without getting into a real war with Russia. The only legitimate reason to assist in the fight in Ukraine, IMHO, is to keep russia busy and bleeding slowly while not winning or losing, so as to keep Russia from moving on to their next announced targets.

                Winning in Ukraine would require USA fighting Russia and most likely enduring nuclear war. Losing in Ukraine will entice Russia to keep on invading other countries. Neither is a great outcome.
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                • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 1 week ago
                  Is the Biden Administration bleeding slowly all of our money munitions and many weapons?
                  What’s next when Xi in China invades Taiwan?
                  Are we going to pour massive amounts of money into another losing cause that is none of our business? BTW do you know Zelensky outlawed opposition political parties? Oh and keep Russia busy? Up until now most fighting the NeoNAZI’s
                  are paid mercenaries easily paid for by the massive increase in cash or Gold from selling oil. You claim “Russia to keep on invading other countries” that is baseless and you really should check your premises.
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                  • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                    As to china, I have a different view. They will take over Taiwan, but it will be a disaster for China and a source of insurrection for a long time. China has many other problems so I dont think they are going to make it long term. We will see
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                  • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                    biden wants to do a reset of USA. That would mean cutting out defenses and world power, destroying our currency, making us dependent for energy, encouraging inflation, etc.

                    As to what Russia will do when they take over Ukraine, thats up to Putin really. He says in his speeches he wants to restore the Russian Federation back to the power and influence of Soviet Russia through acquisition of the countries the Soviets lost when their economy collapsed. Who knows. If he does what he says, it will be terrible for europe and somewhat negative for the usa until he comes for US.
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        • Posted by tutor-turtle 1 month, 2 weeks ago
          If the see eye aye didn't stage a coup back in 2014 there wouldn't be a SNL back bencher ruining their country. Before the coup, Zelensky's claim to fame was playing a piano with his junk. No lie.
          If you expect Russia to just walk away from this, you don't know squat about Russian history.
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          • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
            Russia is hell bent on expansionism whenever it CAN get away with it. They knew that with Biden at the helm, they could get away with annexing other countries on pretty much any pretense, and have no real consequences.
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            • Posted by $ 1 month, 2 weeks ago
              If that were the case, however, you would see him going after the Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia. Those three nations have made significant strides since becoming independents and sport market economies and free elections. And given that all three border the sea, they have open commerce.

              Where do you think Putin can "get away with expansionism?" I'm just not seeing it actually play out...
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              • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                you are seeing it play out in Ukraine. "get away" means to me that his invasion is successful. It hasnt happened yet, but it appears to be headed that way.

                If he is successful at his invasion of ukraine, he will next go for the baltic states. polamd, amd romania. Its all about what he can get before the world stops him. (or he simply dies or is assassinated)
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                • Posted by $ 1 month, 1 week ago
                  Ummm... that's a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. You're trying to prove your hypothetical by linking it to the outcome of what's happening as if it has already happened and therefore provides justification for itself. It doesn't work.
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                  • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                    This is all projecting based on his own speeches. I have no knowledge of why he would even pick Poland and the baltic states to invade. He just picked them because at one time soviet russia ruled over them.
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                • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                  The brainwashing is thorough with this one.
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                  • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                    I am so done with the direction the world is moving under various versions of statism that I am losing interest in it actually. Let the statists have what they want and suffer the consequences. I would rather move to a place where I can just live out my life with being minimally impacted by them. When the systems collapse, perhaps people will wise up and be more rational.
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                    • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 1 week ago
                      There will be patriots who will fight to the end and there will be people who claim nothing will ever happen to the treasonous scum and there will be people who give up.
                      I will never give up the fight and will die on my feet before living on my knees. The rest get the FuQ out of the way.
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                      • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                        but is it worth it to give up your life for that fight that you will never win in your lifetime? Personally, I think the way to win against leftists is to let them control everything and bring it all down. At least they cant blame anyone for it other than themselves. I think the storyline in AS is where it has to go before the masses of people will listen to reason again.
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                        • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 1 week ago
                          I will trade value for value as I see fit. It’s not my business to decide anyones value system or how they choose to address the invisible enemy. It’s an age old question of fight or flight. I certainly don’t take my life’s guidance from a story line in a fiction. For the very few who made it to Galts Gulch in that wonderful novel. Millions didn’t get to be in that club. I am not in that club either.
                          So waiting to be shot like a fish in a barrel won’t do for me.
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                          • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                            difficult decisions for sure. hopefully we live our lives where we get treated best, and have a good life. I have to say that fighting the hordes of uneducated and irrational that seem to be everywhere in the USA just isnt for me. I would rather move if there are better places to go to. Cornered, I will fight to the death of course, but its going to need to get to that point. Otherwise, there is living in plain sight like GUS did in breaking bad, playing gray man to the statists, and enjoying the company of others who value freedom.
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        • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
          The ethnic Russians in "Ukraine" already had a vote, and they voted to secede.

          Which part of the "Human Right of Self-Determination" do you not understand?
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          • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
            Its not fair no matter what really. If half the people want to be ruled by dictator Putin, and the other half want to be independent, that still leaves the whole issue of half the people give up their wealth and run for their lives from Putin, OR the other half give up the dream of being Russian.

            What a mess. If I were Ukranian, I would probably have left Ukraine awhile back and salvaged whatever I could of my wealth (if I had any) and never looked back. If I was Russian, I would probably have moved back to Russia after liquidating what I could of my wealth in Ukraine.
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        • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
          Zorro was elected by promising to reach out to Russia and make a deal regarding Donbass.

          Once in office, Dr. Jekyll changed to Mr. Hyde. He refused to honor the Minsk agreements and he worked with NATO, planning an invasion of the LPR and DPR, as well as Russian Crimea. The US has pumped in $80 billion in weapons to Ukraine since 2014.
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          • -1
            Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
            I have to think there is no booty in Ukraine to justify the USA involvement at all. This is all about standing around while Putin (aka Hitler v2.0) enslaves more and more people, takes their wealth, and continues his invasions country after country. The result last time was WW2 anyway, but with Hiltler stronger than ever. Do you actually think Putin is different from Hitler?
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            • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
              I posted an excerpt from his speech. Do you think Hitler ever spoke like that?

              The USA is involved becuase it has been driven mad by the media? The Deep State and the media are getting richer and more powerful from this war.
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              • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                Russia used the help of the west to take over more countries after WW2. It was a totalitarian regime for sure. Doesnt it look like Putin wants to take over countries to regain Soviet power? Its what he publicly says about mother russia.
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                • Posted by $ 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                  "Russia used the help of the west to take over more countries after WW2."

                  More accurate to say they took advantage of the West's apathy and loss of appetite for war. Churchill didn't even last until V-J day before he was canned by the British. The British only made token actions in the Pacific Theatre once Berlin fell. (They did intervene in Greece, however.) And the new socialist government in England - and it was socialist didn't want to compete with another socialist nation in Russia. All of mainland Europe was in complete disarray. Russia used its influence to take over Yugoslavia (Tito). It pulled back for a week to allow the Nazis to execute 1/2 the city of Warsaw just so they could install a puppet government there.

                  Patton wanted to force the Russians all the way back to their own territory - beyond Poland's 1938 borders. He was told to stand down by Truman and Eisenhower ostensibly because the US didn't want to start a war with an ally and because there was still the fight with Japan to finish off. I think that Eisenhower only really regretted this several years later as President when he had to deal with some of the fallout.

                  "Doesnt it look like Putin wants to take over countries to regain Soviet power?"

                  Like what, exactly? Cite specifics because I'd sure like to know what actions you infer are "expansionist."
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                  • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                    1- invasion and takeover of ukraine, #2- invasion and takeover of the baltic states, #3- invasion and takeover of poland. He even mentioned all this in one of his many speeches about returning russia to the glory of the soviet empire.

                    Our government was STUPID to be so friendly with Stalin, what can I say. England is a real piece of work with its socialism. Intellectually bankrupt, with USA not far behind.
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                    • Posted by $ 1 month, 1 week ago
                      Ummmm... #1 is still in progress. #2 and #3 are hypotheticals without a shred of support to this point.

                      Yes, our government was naive to flirt with Stalin. But Putin is not Stalin. The comparison fails right there.
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                      • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                        Putin is more like Hitler in terms of invasions and power grabs. #2 and #3 have been promised by Putin in his speeches and writings. What he does in the future will be what he does in the future. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
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                        • Posted by $ 1 month, 1 week ago
                          "Putin is more like Hitler in terms of invasions and power grabs."

                          Like... what exactly? You can't use Ukraine to justify your analysis here.

                          "#2 and #3 have been promised by Putin in his speeches and writings."

                          Not to doubt you, but please provide links to the speeches/writings you are referring to.

                          "Past performance is no guarantee of future performance."

                          That too, but the primary issue is that there isn't even any "past performance" to bolster the argument that Putin is a warmonger or megalomaniacal dictator. Corrupt? Sure. But he's been in power since 2000. That's an awful long time and we've seen nothing until Ukraine.
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                          • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                            Wasnt Poland the first of Hitler's acquisitions? Back then perhaps you would have said that how could one say that Hitler was an invader, but look at what happened after that.
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                            • Posted by $ 1 month, 1 week ago
                              Actually, no. Hitler's first "acquisitions" were neighboring Austria and Czechoslovakia. England and France both decided to ignore these two nations' takeovers. They only drew a hard line with Poland because they had an explicit treaty. Not that it did them any good after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact wherein Russia and Germany divided up Poland between them.

                              Again, you're attempting to draw parallels but the parallels are either so extremely tenuous as to be purely hypothetical or lack the necessary support to lend credence to your assertion. Poland especially is a member of NATO. If Russia were to attack it would immediately escalate to a full-blown war. Putin knows he doesn't have the military to take Poland - especially not if opposed by all of NATO.
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                              • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                                That was the idea behind NATO. We will see if it holds. Germany is teetering on the verge of losing energy from Russia that it so stupidly relied on. Maybe they will pull out of NATO even.

                                We will c what happens with Putin/Russia.
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                    • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                      The Revolution of Dignity also known as the Maidan Revolution and the Ukrainian Revolution, took place in Ukraine in February 2014.
                      That is when the US took over Ukraine.
                      2. Chechen Republic lost its independence when it’s continuous terrorist attacks in Russia caused retaliation. Now the Chechian soldiers are paid by Putin to fight the NeoNAZI’S that you totally ignore.
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                      • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                        Europe is run by idiots to a large extent, and in a way they deserve to be taken over by Russia because of their refusal to see the evil in communism. During the rest of MY life, it is unlikely that Russia will try invading North America or South America (too far away to overcome the severe resistance that they would meet here), so letting statism run its course (again) in Russia might not be such a bad idea
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                        • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 1 week ago
                          Who do you think runs Europe?
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                          • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                            I really dont know. I would assume its the politicians that the citizens vote for, but I just say they are idiots in terms of what they do
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                            • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 1 week ago
                              Powers of appointment
                              The European Union
                              Votes for its own President
                              post held for a 2.5 year term, renewable once
                              nominated by political groups or a minimum of 38 MEPs
                              election held by secret ballot
                              maximum of 4 ballots
                              candidate must win an absolute majority of votes cast, i.e. 50% plus one.
                              Elects its own Vice-presidents, quaestors, committee and delegation chairs and vice-chairs
                              Elects the President of the European Commission
                              Parliament must approve the new Commission President, proposed by the European Council, by an absolute majority (half of all MEPs, plus one).
                              Vets Commissioners
                              each Commissioner-designate (proposed by the Council, in agreement with the President-elect of the European Commission) must appear before parliamentary committees in their prospective fields of responsibility
                              negative evaluations can result in a candidate’s withdrawal from the process. A new candidate for Commissioner must then be put forward for scrutiny
                              Approves European Commission (the Commissioners, the President and the High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy)
                              by a single vote of consent
                              (they are then officially appointed by the European Council)
                              Has supervisory and control powers over the other EU institutions, holding them to account. It can for instance adopt a vote of no-confidence to censure and ultimately dismiss the Commission.

                              Leadership

                              The European Commission is led by its President and the 26 Commissioners, one per country.

                              President

                              The Commission President is elected for a 5-year term by the European Parliament, following the European elections.

                              The European Council (EU heads of state or government) proposes a presidential candidate to the Parliament. Because the choice of candidate must take into account the European election results, the proposed candidate generally comes from the largest political group in the Parliament.

                              The Parliament has to approve the new Commission President by an absolute majority (half of all MEPs, plus one). Once approved, the European Council officially appoints the new President.

                              If the candidate fails to secure the approval of the European Parliament, the European Council must propose a new candidate within 1 month.
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            • Posted by freedomforall 1 month, 2 weeks ago
              No, it is mostly about stealing from the American people and distributing $ and power to the
              oligarchs, the politicians. That is where most of the booty is, in the funding being sent to
              Ukraine and redistributed to the Deep State mob of traitors and their conspirators.
              They have stated publicly that they want most of us dead and the rest enslaved (owning nothing.)
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              • Posted by term2 1 month, 1 week ago
                Maybe the US should stop all foreign "aid", and use the money savings to reduce our national debt for a change. Why we are borrowing from our future to enrich other countries pisses me off.
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        • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
          " the evil behind the Russian government "

          I see this everywhere. No articulation to the anger - driven insane by years of anti-Russian vitriol and disinformation pounding 24/7/365 from the hatemongering dishonest media? Similar to TDS.
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          • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 2 weeks ago
            Correct but you will not over take the brainwashed , with the facts. It can not be done. What you can and have done is plant the seed. The truth eventually will water it. Russia people have suffered tremendously since the Deep State Banking Cartel financed and directed the Bolshevik Revolution. Words describing Putin are easily banded about ,like Head of KGB or Dictator and so on. He was never high up in the KGB and was Used as a translator because he learned to speak German fluently as a student. His family suffered great loss from the NAZIS. His German studies were a result, never again.
            Putin has from the start made it clear he sees communism as a dead end alley. He rescued the Russian people from a free for all of assets and resources jailing an oligarchy tied to the Cabal. From that point the media smear campaign commenced.
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          • Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
            Actually, I dont dislike Russians per se, but I certainly dont have any love or respect for dictator Putin. i would say that the philosophical basis which is apparent in Russia SUCKS such that its so corrupt and places evil people like Putin in power.
            I didnt see Ukraine invading Russia. I did see Russia invading Ukraine, so its not so hard to "articulate"
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            • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
              You didn't see Kiev invading ethnic-Russian Donbass in 2014, and killing civilians, bombing churches, apartment buildings and even an orphanage?

              Because ALL of those Youtube videos were deleted by Google in 2015. I saw with my own eyes, a kiosk where i bought French fries and the nearby bus terminal in Lugansk, in 2012, turned to rubble in 2014, in a YouTube video. That video disappeared in 2015. It didn't meet "community standards." LOL!

              The most frequent visitors to the Obama White House were Google (Youtube) executives. And what did they discuss there? If you guessed "behavior modification" you would be pretty accurate
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              • -2
                Posted by term2 1 month, 2 weeks ago
                The whole area is f&*(&ed up. So little attention paid to just letting people be free by government in general. Sometimes I think anarchy would be better.
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  • Posted by mikeofallon 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    If like CMC, Putin would have demanded dismantling (with proof) of the offensive systems & most of the world would have understood. If his demand not met, then go after those systems. Killing civilians & bombing non-military areas shows it's a land / natural resources grab.
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    • Posted by $ Dobrien 1 month, 2 weeks ago
      If the real journalists were not fired for telling the truth most of the world would have understood what is going on in Ukraine.
      Have you heard of the BRICS? that’s 3/4 of the worlds population and they support Putin. It’s only the corrupt WEF and the purchased politicians of NATO countries who support Ukraine. Just like they support Klaus Schwab and the Great Reset. Even now they are pushing to make Ukraine a NATO member. That is an intolerable prospect for Russia. Killing civilians and bombing non military areas for The Land/ Natural resource grab describes Bush’s Iraq fiasco or Obama’s Libya action, Where’s the Gold? Why did Obama/NATO take out Libya’s eight wonder of the world , the under water river system? Maybe you have not heard of it…
      Contrary to common belief, the most important riches of Libya are not the oil wells, but water. The world’s biggest reservoirs of fossil freshwater lie below its desert. Through an extensive pipeline system, these aquifers provide the country with water for consumption and agriculture. The so-called “Great Man-Made River” is the world’s largest irrigation project.
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  • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
  • -2
    Posted by craigerb 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    "Another bias analysis of Ukraine" would be a better title.
    "That the U.S. would meddle with Russia’s vital interests" was especially laughable.
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    • Posted by fairbro 1 month, 2 weeks ago
      Your comment (craigerb) is laughable! The US has been interfering with Russia's vital interests, and on Russia's borders with other nations, since the 1950's, and meddling inside Russia through numerous NGO's for several decades. The US has promoted ethnic discord and internal opposition. The US A.I.D. even had a program of grants to $100,000 to any Russian (or Ukriainina) who would oppose the government via a publication, newsletter or anti-government broadcast.
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    • Posted by $ 1 month, 2 weeks ago
      What makes you say that?

      We have here a good forum where we appreciate extended explanations over sound bites. If you have some specific arguments and would care to share them, you'll find nothing less than a considerate audience even if we might disagree with the premise. You may have a point yet to be considered. We won't know until you share it, however.
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      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
      • Posted by craigerb 1 month, 2 weeks ago
        You're kidding, of course. My rating went from +14 to -28 (a swing of 42) for just asking if Trump deserved jail time, the answer to which is even more evident now than when I originally asked. Meanwhile, trolls have ratings of over 50,000.
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        • Posted by $ 1 month, 2 weeks ago
          Your rating dropped because the cardinal rule of this forum is simple: does the post provide value in the eyes of other members of this community. Your cardinal mistake was in failing to provide any kind of cogent argument or backup for your question, which was obviously made out of sarcasm and without any seriousness.

          I would also be very careful about calling anyone on this forum a "troll." We are active in self-policing and the rating system is how that is accomplished: we vote down those who do not provide value. Now it isn't that one can not disagree. I disagree with others here frequently. It is in how one goes about that process that matters. Come armed with solid facts and logic and while people may not agree with you, they won't downvote you.

          But as you would notice if you looked at profiles, those (like me) with ratings over 10,000 have done so only by extensive effort on our parts. I've been a paying member of this forum (a producer) for ten years. I even published a book on Amazon and credit this group in particular for helping me refine my arguments. To put down those who have produced so much is to discredit yourself within this community.
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        • Posted by $ 1 month, 2 weeks ago
          Your rating dropped because the cardinal rule of this forum is simple: does the post provide value in the eyes of other members of this community. Your cardinal mistake was in failing to provide any kind of cogent argument or backup for your question, which was obviously made out of sarcasm and without any seriousness.

          I would also be very careful about calling anyone on this forum a "troll." We are active in self-policing and the rating system is how that is accomplished: we vote down those who do not provide value. Now it isn't that one can not disagree. I disagree with others here frequently. It is in how one goes about that process that matters. Come armed with solid facts and logic and while people may not agree with you, they won't downvote you.

          But as you would notice if you looked at profiles, those (like me) with ratings over 10,000 have done so only by extensive effort on our parts. I've been a paying member of this forum (a producer) for ten years. I even published a book on Amazon and credit this group in particular for helping me refine my arguments. To put down those who have produced so much is to discredit yourself within this community.
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