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Common core nightmare

Posted by H6163741 10 years, 1 month ago to Education
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My daughter is in the top 1% of students her age. Imagine my shock when I discovered that she does not know how to do 'long' multiplication or division! (She is in 5th grade!). It's really frightening what Common core has done to our education system!


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  • Posted by ddardick24 10 years, 1 month ago
    I'm a senior in a PA public school, and fortunately I'm a few years ahead of the effects of common core, not that my school is difficult at all. In fact, my most difficult year (relative to my age at the time) was 1st grade, which was at a private school. It is because of my learning abilities that I acquired from private schools that I am in the top 10 of my public school. Privatize education please.
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  • Posted by lydzbiz 10 years, 1 month ago
    As a retired teacher of Gifted students ages 7-12, and the mother of two gifted children I empathize immensely with your quandry. I thought the tests and state standards we developed in 2002 in response to Ted Kennedy's No Child Left Behind debaucle were bad enough, and fortunately, I retired in time to avoid the current Common Core disaster. Obama's goal is to take government control of everything, so we can all be "equal". (except those who are exempt). We can help FreedomWorks fight Common Core and other issues by joining and contributing to their organization.
    However, in your case in particular, I suggest you look into some of the online education (some are free) opportunities available, and allow your daughter to excel academically at her own pace, at home, and actually learn something. My Gifted/ADHD son almost flunked out of high school because he was so bored and always in trouble-online classes saved him. Now he's in medical school, even though his teachers all said he'd never amount to anything. If she doesn't want to miss out on being with her friends, it may be possible to negotiate an arrangement with her school to attend only part of the day so she can attend art, music, P.E. and other "elective" courses so that the school will still get their check from the state for her attendance, she will get to be with her friends, and she will be able to learn without the distraction of the nontraditional students in every classroom, who tend to disrupt things. I used to be a vigorous proponent of public school. Now, not so much, and I spent 30 years in the system. But things have changed SO much it's no fun anymore for the teachers OR the students. Meanwhile the taxpayers stand by scratching their heads and wondering what they're paying for when 50% of kids graduate without being able to read or do a simple math problem. I also encourage you to enroll her in extra curricular activities (art classes at the Institute, acting, dance, sports) for the social and creative exposure she needs. I imagine in the LA area there are many to choose from that cost less than private school tuition. If all else fails, move to Missouri where we stopped Common Core in its tracks and still offer gifted classes for kids who qualify in most districts. Good luck!
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      Thanks so much for your input! I believe there are some local home school groups that we could join for socialization, field trips, etc. I'm glad to hear your state has dumped common core- have the Feds taken away your federal education funding yet?
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  • Posted by $ winterwind 10 years, 1 month ago
    As someone who was where she is, I know this story well. In my case, it has a mostly happy ending. But I have some questions, if you don't mind.
    What does it mean when you say she is in the top 1%? Certainly not that she can do the most situps! How was this measured, and by whom?
    I will caution you that sometimes the way statistics lie about students is to measure performance rather than ability. In many circumstances, a student who works like the dickens and is not that smart will test well. Zenphamy's question was great. How, _of your own knowledge_, do you know that she cannot do long division or multiplication, and what does that say about her general intelligence?
    Until I know more [I taught brilliant students, some her age, fun stuff for 20+ years], I have something for you to consider. If we're talking about IQ, even leaving aside the fact that the tests become less accurate the further one goes from the center, Mensa [the high IQ organization] starts giving you membership at IQ 125, or 25 points off the norm - the top 2%.
    If you were dealing with a student who was 35 points off the norm the other way [that is, an IQ score, if you could get one, of 65] they would have specialists crawling all over them to "Help them function in the real world" - and kids like your daughter are, at best, ignored. Why? Because everybody knows they'll "make it". They'll "manage". They can help the slower students. gag.
    Start looking into your options NOW. Online schools, charter schools [if your state has them], private schools, homeschooling.
    I believe that public schools destroy every single thing they touch - students, teachers, parents, taxpayers, everything. I really want to say "Grab you daughter and RUN!!!!"
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      I should have said she scored 99.9 on whatever test it is that LAUSD uses to measure "giftedness." Also, she always gets perfect grades. I have been looking at middle schools since last year. Unfortunately the pickings are slim, thanks to our idiot president. Basically, we have one very exclusive all- girls school (Can you say, "financial aid?") and one charter that is not too inconveniently located. The sad thing is that there is a highly gifted magnet middle school just a few miles away. Unfortunately, only part of the school is a magnet,and they do teach common core, so that's out. We started working on the ISEE tonight, and so far I am relieved that her reasoning skills are very strong. It's probably just a matter of 'fine tuning' the math. Sorry to ramble. This was just a complete shock to me. Feeling a little better now. I will definitely have a talk with her teacher and principal. Unfortunately, the school she currently attends is "one of the best in Los Angeles" (10 on greatschools) so finding a better public school is probably not an option. At this point, it seems best to focus on middle school while supplementing what she is doing in elementary. Do you agree?
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 1 month ago
        You already know this, but you have to take control and take action. There are bound to be other parents in your or similar situation. I don't know how to contact them, but they're out there. It's just a nightmare!!
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      What you said about "managing" and "getting by" are so true. That's what people tell me if I bring up these issues. My response is, "Why should she have to just get by? She deserves the best education she can get!" (No fistfights yet....)
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 1 month ago
    Have you given her 'tests' requiring long x or div to see how she solves such a problem?
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      No; I have sadly been trusting that perfect grades in a "great school" meant that she was actually learning. This came up when we had to sign her homework (which, by the way, the teacher doesn't review, or even collect, for that matter.)
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  • Posted by NealS 10 years, 1 month ago
    I'll have to disagree with you (pun), just listen to these professionals. What they are doing is criminal to say the least. This is one of my favorite videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QBv2CFT...
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      Wow. That was unreal! I think the worst were the girls who said, "I don't believe in math!" (Although, now that I think if it, that is pretty standard liberal thinking - It's only true if I want it to be...). Nice examples for our daughters. (NOT!)
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      • Posted by Solver 10 years, 1 month ago
        In math you learn that adding negative numbers together always results in a larger negative number. Some do not believe this, thus keep adding those negatives hoping that the final result will be positive. Many of those are in politics now.
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      • Posted by NealS 10 years, 1 month ago
        I only hope and pray that the video was a pun, if not we're in worse shape than I could imagine. How could anyone find that many people that could be that dumb?
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 1 month ago
    This is not new.It just wasn't as focused as Common Core. When my kids were young they experienced what I called "anti-teaching." Stick to the plan no matter what and if you showed a spark of ingenuity, you had to be "fixed." Can I give you an example? I'll try to abbreviate it as much as possible.

    I was thinking of a teaching career in what was then called "special education." These were what today we would call special needs kids. I quickly realized that teaching them the three R's wasn't going to work. Instead I worked on how to make change from a dollar. How and when to get off and on a bus. How to be polite. The principle wrote me up for not following the lesson plan. There's more to the story, but that's the essence of it. I never became a teacher. In later years I did a little research on public schools and was appalled by what I discovered Common Core is merely the government supporting that principle so long ago.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      How sad. I mean, it's no surprise that the government is defining what should be taught, rather than listening to the students, teachers and parents. I'll bet you would have been a great teacher. I have a friend who teaches 2nd grade and she has refused to use the common core methods. So far, no one has called her on it... She has been teaching for 20 years, and now some bozos come up with an untested education plan that she is ordered to follow. Ridiculous.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 1 month ago
        The principle also said I had a very noisy classroom. Of course I did. I was delighted if I could get those kids to talk and express themselves. They had been made fun of so much because they either talked slow, had trouble finding the right words or just stuttered. Almost to a person, however, they were sweet natured and anxious to learn. There was a boy, small for his age, who I taught to pick out a tune on the piano in the room. The tune was, as he called it, "Swami Riber." His mom called me in tears because it was the first time he exhibited anything of a nature other than simple sentences. I could go on, but the memories are choking me up a bit.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 1 month ago
    A dumbed down citizenry is a more easily controlled citizenry. Past dumbing down has already produced socialist fruit. Obama was not only elected but reelected president.
    What has this proven to our socialist elite? It would be really beneficial to their cause (of control) if more of us were dumbed down some more.
    Hence such nifty tools as Common Core.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
    The problem with home school, of course, is that my husband and I both have good day jobs. Frankly, it would be ...less impossible... to pay for private school than for one of us to give up our jobs.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 1 month ago
    Please confront her teacher, principal, school board...ALL of them. They will get away with mind murder if we don't start making demands. And don't let them convince you otherwise. Please.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      You don't know me, but trust me- There will definitely be a serious discussion with all involved. Unfortunately, I live in Los Angeles, so there is little, if any, chance that they will disagree with obamagod, but maybe I can at least push for some more intelligence-appropriate work. Mostly, we are just going to have to keep a much better eye on what she is doing, and probably supplement A LOT.
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 1 month ago
        Be vocal. Talk to other parents. Drop in. Question your child about assignments. Talk to your daughter about letting you know what daily assignments are about. They will be slipping in liberal politics into every subject; writing, math, history ... even games. Watch for it. Also, reinforce always asking question. Never stop asking until they give an answer that makes total sense. I think homeschooling is the answer.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
          For example, last year she learned about Cesar Chavez and obummer. This year, she is learning about... Cesar Chavez and obummer. Are there no other political figures to study??? We're getting even, though. She will be doing her report on Ronald Reagan instead of (again) Cesar Chavez.
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          • Posted by Bobhummel 10 years, 1 month ago
            A little known fact about Cesar Chavez. When he was doing all of his wonderful work for the lettuce choppers and grape pickers in California in 1970, his chauffeur driver was actually working for the Soviet consulate in San Francisco under the KGB. The California Division of Forestry (aka state fire department) was investigating all the mysterious (arson) fires in Riverside and Imperial Counties during CC's early days of fame and glory. the good ol' USSR was supplying the money infrastructure to support organized labor. I was there. FBI, CIA et.al. too. Cesar Chavez was a thug. Just like Fidel, Hugo, Stalin and Putin.
            cheers
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            • Posted by Wired1 10 years, 1 month ago
              Lets get beyond the 'Thugs', or rather, who is behind them. There is not much "business" without strife, the pot must simmer, never boil over into large conflict. Small bushfire actions keep business spicy.
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              • Posted by Bobhummel 10 years, 1 month ago
                Unless these thugs set your small business on fire and burn your packing sheds to the ground like Chavez's thugs did. Then it gets personal. Sort of like the businesses destroyed in Ferguson, MO. Not a lot of spice there, but i do get your point, wired1
                Cheers
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 1 month ago
            Make sure she mentions how crazy Reagan was for doing the amnesty crap though too. :) (It was a compromise that has lead to where we are today with our welcoming wide open freebies galore situation.) After the good stuff of course..lol
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  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
    I know we've kind of gotten off the subject, but I had to add that I discovered yesterday that they are teaching her to put a , before and. (ie yellow, gray, and blue...). Not the end of the world, I know, but still WRONG
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 10 years, 1 month ago
    I teach my kids their math. I don't rely on the school to do it. Not enough teachers know math well enough to teach it. That's one reason Common Core took hold so easily. Many teachers, it seems to me, were looking for a lifeline - something to grab onto, even if it sucks.

    I write homework assignments for my kids using mathematics in subjects they are interested in. It is working well.
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    • Posted by $ winterwind 10 years, 1 month ago
      YES! yes, yes, yes, oh go, you rock!
      Is there an adult in the world who uses math to pass a test as a regular activity? Uh, no.
      We already know that people learn things better when THEY are interested in the subject the learning is part of.
      oh, good for you!!!!
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  • Posted by FlukeMan2 10 years, 1 month ago
    Common Core standard 4.NBT.B.5 states in part, "Multiply a whole number of up to four digits by a one-digit whole number, and multiply two two-digit numbers, using strategies based on place value and the properties of operations." In other words how to do long multiplication.

    Common Core standard 4.NBT.B.6 states in part, "Find whole-number quotients and remainders with up to four-digit dividends and one-digit divisors, using strategies based on place value," or in other words know how to do long division.

    The 4 at the beginning of the references means that these are a 4th grade level standards.

    If students haven't been taught how to do long multiplication and division by the end of the 4th grade, then it is because the school is NOT following the Common Core standards.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      I didn't say she wasn't taught it; I said she didn't know how to do it. She said that they learned it in third grade, but had not used it since. She tried to show me how she had learned, but frankly it was completely useless. I take it you are a common core fan? If so, I sure hope you have kids and that they go to public school, so they can learn how to solve a simple math problem in only 20 minutes and properly salute Herr obama.
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      • Posted by FlukeMan2 10 years ago
        ALL my points still stand. The math standards are simply be able to do x, y, and z by such-and-such grade. They do not say how to teach. If your daughter couldn't do long division, then the teacher and/or school failed to adhere to the Common Core Standards. Thus you can't rationally claim that it is the fault of the standards themselves.

        Let me make this absolutely clear. The Common Core Standard says students should know how to do long division by the end of the 4th grade (at the latest). You feel that your 5th grade daughter should know how to do long division. You agree with the Common Core Standard regarding long division.

        My feelings about Common Core aren't simply for or against. When I saw your complaint I figured I'd look up what the Common Core Standard was regarding long division. Apparently I'm the only one in this forum who thinks we should read what the standards actually say before making a judgement call. I think the hatred of Common Core has reach a fanatical level, so much so that when anything even seems to be wrong in education, it will be blamed on Common Core.

        I am a math tutor. I don't like the government takeover of education. I intend to homeschool my children. My wife and I will teach them according to their needs.
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  • Posted by Snoogoo 10 years, 1 month ago
    If she is in the top 1% then the school is too easy for her, she needs to be challenged. High schools are WAY too easy these days. I was in her same situation in the 10th grade. My state had a post secondary option where you could attend the university of your choice (provided you got accepted of course) instead of high school. I did not have to pay tuition or books because I was a public school student. By the time I was 18 I was halfway done with my bachelors degree. My parents didn't have money to pay to send me to private school, but they did pay taxes as business owners so I took advantage of the program. Its just an idea for you, but I truly think that she needs to be challenged more. Let her take a graduate level course and get a B or C.. she will probably freak out but she will still be miles ahead of her peers and she will really need to give her brain a workout and use all the critical thinking skills she has.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      Thanks for the info, and congrats on doing so well. LA city college (i think) has an early start program that we are looking into. I think the age range is 12-17, though. The private school we are looking at also seems to have a very personalized & rigorous program. Can't put all our eggs in that basket,though. God forbid she doesn't get in for some reason and has to go to an LAUSD middle school!
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      • Posted by Snoogoo 10 years, 1 month ago
        Thanks and I certainly think an early start program is worth looking into. I would also say that reading books helps fill in the educational gaps of public school. If she enjoys reading, suggest all of the classics (AS included of course) I sympathize with you as I am also now a parent, the whole public school thing is a little scary, but I think there is hope, heck, I went to a BIG time lib university and got a lib arts degree and look where I am now writing things on this Galt's Gulch blog! As long as she gains the proper critical thinking skills to defend herself from systematic brainwashing she will be OK, there is hope!
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  • Posted by Johnmark316 10 years, 1 month ago
    Where the government falls short is trying to solve a problem through paternalism. The key to improving society is through entertainment. It is no secret that children are addicted to videogames and have 4 seconed attention spans. The result is the student cannot learn because they are too distracted and teachers are unable to keep students from being bored. That said we should shift to practical education and less theoretical. Kids naturaly want to learn but our soceity devalues education hence the riddicule of nerds. Show them math and let them build a virtual building with their theory instead of multiple choice testing. There are home schooled children who are capable of handling college theory by freshman year. Reading a text book and regurgitating its conents is not learning. Teaching children to follow orders is not learning. Give them problems with ability to freely solve them. I played chess all through high school because i was philosophical in nature and new highschool was nonsense i had friends go to college by taking their ged and dropping out their junior year. One of the students was already a reporter for our city news paper while going to high school. Its our soceities lack of respect and honor of education that is the problem. Its the inibility for teachers to teach that is the problem.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      I think there are still a lot of good teachers out there. Unfortunately, their hands are tied by things like common core, tenure and uninvolved (or overinvolved) parents.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 1 month ago
    My second-oldest daughter just started high school and is in an advanced algebra class (think pre-trig). We looked at one of her assignments and had to really struggle to figure out that the question just wanted her to find Greatest Common Factors because the wording they were using was so round-about as to be completely obtuse.

    Mathematics is only as complicated as you want to make it, people. The best mathematics teachers and professors I ever had were those who explained things in the simplest terms. Intentionally obfuscating the meanings of simple principles by couching them in other terms is reprehensible to the knowledge seeker.
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  • Posted by radical 10 years, 1 month ago
    Speaking of mis, or non education, I have been told that many older children and teenagers cannot tell time by looking at a clock, that they need a digital print - out device. Is this true, or just a rumor.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 10 years, 1 month ago
    Living in LA has to be interesting at best.
    Perhaps you can allow her to flee to the middle of the country for a summer or two in one of our "gulches" when she is a bit older.
    The experience will teach her life skills that she won't get elsewhere.
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