Michigan lifted Mask Mandate for Vaccinated People. Maskers are having an absolute fit.

Posted by $ Markus_Katabri 6 months, 2 weeks ago to Ask the Gulch
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The same groups that preached “Trust the Science and Data” are now denying the science and data. Everyone that says I should still be wearing a mask I troll them and ask them if their upset their candidate lost the presidential election. Since they’re obviously Trump supporters and Anti-Vaxxers and Anti-Science. The reactions are priceless.
Anybody have any good stories?
(Disclaimer: I’m a libertarian and I’m here. So you know how I actually feel about all this nonsense. I get to figuratively club them over the head with their own hypocritical rhetoric so you bet I’m gonna do it.)


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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 months, 2 weeks ago
    Trump supporters telling you that you should be wearing a mask? I suppose some might be but it is the Democrats who are rabid about mask wearing.

    Generally the Trump supporters were more inclined to be anti-mask, or at least anti-mask regulation.

    There are anti-vax people on all sides of the spectrum -- they are pretty strongly represented here.
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    • Posted by Misanthropic-Shrugger 6 months, 2 weeks ago
      Agreed. As a Trumpian, I would have advocated for "recommendations" not "regulations" and ensuring that the elderly were carefully cared for (e.g. delivery groceries, medical house calls, i.e. anything they damn-well needed to stay home and remain mentally / physically healthy, until the storm blew over).
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  • Posted by Joseph23006 6 months, 2 weeks ago
    There is a flaw in that conclusion because all over the country it was Republicans and us nasty trump supporters who believed in delving into the REAL science and then making decisions rather than being hustled by pontificators who actually did not have hands-on experience with patients. Science doesn't just occur in the halls of institutions designed for such, it occurs out in the real world where real doctors treat real patients and observe first hand what goes on. Abunch of states did that and things turned out just fine amid scoffing and ridicule.
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  • Posted by $ 6 months, 2 weeks ago
    CG anyone that has worn a mask while sanding drywall (even the incredible N95 ooooooo) knows they don’t work barely for that. Virus particles are smaller. I am staunchly Anti-Mask and have always been. The situation we find ourselves in now, in Michigan, is Pandemic Addicted people still running around mask shaming after their side has said the “Science and Data” has proven masks are not needed. Perhaps I was a bit nuanced but, the chance to call these Far Left Snowflakes “Trump Supporters” is by far the worst insult you can hurl at them. It makes them question the propaganda they’ve been spoonfed for over a year.
    No insult intended for Trump supporters. And after all the Virtue Signaling Abuse that’s been heaped on Trump supporters for the last year I am thrilled to return the favor and insult these hypocrites. As for the vaccines...that’s a personal choice. Masking is a personal choice. Will I unleash on anyone that tries to coerce through social shaming or other means. ABSOLUTELY.
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    • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 months, 2 weeks ago
      Mask Holes generally are lefties and sheeple. Those that understood and stood, with Trump and not sheeple, even though we are treated by the lefties as the Black Sheeple of humanity...wrong on both counts...we're just Americans.
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    • Posted by NealS 6 months, 2 weeks ago
      Thanks for the clarification, I guess it is like reverse psychology. After all, what seemed to be working for the left is them telling complete lies about everything and their sheeple just follow them.
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  • Posted by Arthgallo 6 months, 2 weeks ago
    Science? What a science? Why are we vaccinating kids with a 0.2% chance of fatality and an even lower risk of infection? When government tells me what I must do to be healthy, I’m skeptical. “I swear by my life and my love of it.....” please don’t wear a mask for me.
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  • Posted by term2 6 months, 2 weeks ago
    Michigan elected that particularly STUPID governor. No wonder they are making a fuss over NOT wearing masks. Vaccination is far more effective than wearing a mask, so why continue with the masks. If the michigan liberals want to be perfectly safe, climb under your bed and stay there.
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  • Posted by $ Ben_C 6 months, 2 weeks ago
    NOTICE
    AS PER THE CDC:
    IF YOU ARE VACCINATED OR HAVE ANTIBODIES TO COVID 19
    MASKS ARE OPTIONAL
    This is the sign I have on my office front door. Bitchmer wants us to be the vaccine / mask police which I refuse to do. But then I grew up in the sixties so I have always had anti authority tendencies.
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  • Posted by EMC2 6 months, 2 weeks ago
    I identify as Vaxxed. As a Military Brat & Public School inmate I've had jabs all my life so I can honestly say, "Why, yes, I've been vaxxed." Don't have to say when. This concoction isn't even a true vaccination. No thanks. p.s. I neve did wear a mask. (73 years old with an autoimmune disease... doing fine, thanks)
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    • Posted by term2 6 months, 2 weeks ago
      I have thought the masks people wear just makes them feel good but doesnt protect against the virus. Too many air leaks, to much handling during the day, and most people reuse them.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 6 months, 2 weeks ago
    As a senior-level engineer who's worked in the medical industry for almost two decades, specializing in infection control, I haven't taken a vaccine in over 15 years. Does that last fact make me "anti-science" or anti-vax? Since when does government health programs make people healthier? That's funny... You raise a good question. What makes somebody an anti-vaxxer?

    Good that you're enjoying trolling people and getting priceless reactions on the internet, I guess.

    Let me try to be helpful. Given my past, where I've worked, and who I've worked with I can say with complete conviction that the problems arise when government thinks it's going to help your health AND WHENEVER medicine is given via a government mandate. ALWAYS.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 months, 2 weeks ago
    I have no idea what motivates them. I wore a mask and worked a staggered schedule to level the curve. We levelled the curve and averted a hospital crisis in Wisconsin. Then the bar moved to reducing infections. I didn't agree with that, but I understand it's like how it was hard to find a panel of electronics experts to say it was safe to use electronics in commercial aircraft below 10,000 feet, even though we knew it was almost certainly safe. Both my kids were in elementary school when this started. Now one kid goes two days a week to middle school, and hopefully the other one starts middle school in person next fall. That's a lot of time when you're kid!

    This past winter my wife staggered her staff to have only one person in the office at any one time, with everyone working from home. We had propane heaters in the dead of winter to do signings in the garage with the door open.

    I got my first Pfizer shot in Feb. I started working more in the lab; I hate working from home. My older kid stepped up; we sent our 10-y/o kid to a camp that practices reasonable precautions. Staggering work schedules is the pits. My 12 y/o will get his rona shot in the next few weeks. This crap is over! Tonight my wife took our 10-y/o to one of those jump playlands for the first time since the winter of 2019-2020.

    I'm happy to wear a mask if someone around me has a concern, but it's time for normal life to return. I want tech lunches and happy hours with no mask requirement. I want the library open. I don't remember what's it's like to go to UU services (church for atheists with kids :) ), but I don't see why we're not open.

    I don't get this mask thing. I don't want to club them over the head. I want to know why on earth we can't accept this risk as we accept car accidents, as we accept the long-term costs from cars in the form of global warming.

    My colleagues are reasonable, working together in the lab, happily wearing masks if there's a reason, but mostly taking care of business. It feels like the rest of the world, though, is like the engineers afraid to be the one to sign off on a big decision.
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    • Posted by MortalMan 6 months, 2 weeks ago
      I have an idea what motivates some of them. They have received all of their information from the MSM and are still afraid. What motivates MSM and other people feeding them that information is the real question. And, the most likely answer is greed for power.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 months, 2 weeks ago
      tldr; The pandemic is over, and I was sick of it long before it ended. :)
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      • Posted by $ gharkness 6 months, 2 weeks ago
        Me too. I really enjoyed your comments above, CircuitGuy, because it's been that way for me most of the time, too. I just do my thing, wear a mask when I absolutely HAVE to and at no other time, and just live life.

        Today I've been listening to some of the drivel on NPR about how everyone is so scared because the rules are relaxed. It just makes me shake my head. edited for clarity as to whom I was addressing.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 months, 2 weeks ago
          "everyone is so scared because the rules are relaxed."
          My theory, which is really just a guess, is this is an indirect result of good portable video devices. Parents have the option of giving them to kids, and it's hard not to if the parents themselves occasionally watch video on the phone. That results in less motivation for kids to go out into the kid world of playing in the neighborhood. That results in well-meaning parents always being on hand to resolve any difficulties, difficulties that the children would have had to muddle through on their own a generation ago. This means the kids don't learn "to adult" until their 20s. They can stay on their parents' insurance until 26 now. There's no stigma about someone in his early 20s saying he needs his mom to review documents before signing them. There's no sigma about a 13 year old whose mom walks him to school. Technology makes it easier for us to hear about the rare shooting or kidnapping, while it simultaneously allows us to keep the kids inside to protect them from these extremely rare perils.

          The result, according this theory, is people of an age where mobile video was available in early childhood are afraid of everything. They never had the experience of learning to solve problems on their own. This also makes them more open to arguments for socialism and central management of people's lives. It makes them honestly terrified of taking off a mask, even though the level of risk is basically zero.

          I keep saying "according to this theory" because I note it sounds like "kids these days have no grit... why, when I was their age..." When I was young, I said I would never say that. So this could be all wrong. But if I'm right, they're truly scared, and this is a slow-moving crisis. We need to get the kids taking risks, making their own decisions, talking to strangers, with no parents nearby.
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      • Posted by 25n56il4 6 months, 2 weeks ago
        I had Covid in January for 6 days. I just had a test and was negative. Are you saying I need the vaccine? My system is swimming in more antibodies than you have from your vaccine.
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        • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 months, 2 weeks ago
          Probably true, however the vaccine is specifically designed to trigger a reaction to the "spike" protein which is the aspect that makes it most dangerous. Any mutation that doesn't include that will probably be less dangerous and any mutation that does will still trigger the enhanced immune response.

          What your immune system decided was the important characteristic is anyone's guess. You might be more susceptible to a variant than someone who was vaccinated.
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          • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 months, 2 weeks ago
            Actually, studies from Africa show that those vaxed are MORE susceptible to the so called variants as well as the regular flu...trust your immune system and trust nature.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 6 months, 2 weeks ago
            Yes, and all without regard to long-term effects which won't be known for several more years.

            Given who created the virus and the "vaccines" - as well as the actual hospitalization rate for COVID - I'll pass on the "vaccine." Two of my wife's friends died after getting the stab. Her sister nearly died as well. That's three more people than I know died from the actual disease.
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            • Posted by term2 6 months, 2 weeks ago
              4 co workers came down with covid, but have essentially no symptoms except for deficiencies in smell and taste. That lasted a couple of weeks, and they are doing fine. I think the fauci-ites blew this covid thing up out of proportion. Some people with deficient immune systems were no doubt in trouble, but I think most people got it and didnt even know.
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              • Posted by $ blarman 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                Estimates by many are that we are already past herd immunity because of asymptomatic cases being as much as 40% of the population at this point. Now there is surely overlap, but when you have ~50% of the population getting the shots (assuming of course they are efficacious) that tallies to a pretty high figure. It would dovetail nicely with the data, however, which indicates that things have been winding down since February.
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                • Posted by term2 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                  I do think herd immunity is geographically dependent also. 90% in one state, and 30% in another, assuming no travel between states, does not equate to 60% herd immunity overall. So many factors determine how fast and where a virus spreads.

                  4 coworkers out of the 10 here came down with covid a few weeks ago, but nearly asymptomatic except for smell and taste deficiencies. No other symptoms. The other 6 didnt come down with anything at all, and only one of the other 6 was vaccinated. I would say that somhow the virus is becoming weaker, or its only able to infect the remaining population who happen to have strong immune systems.
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                  • Posted by $ blarman 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                    For information about actual vaccination progress, you might be interested in this set of charts: https://usafacts.org/visualizations/c...

                    Point is that if you accept the premise of a two-poke process, most of the US is only at 30% right now. (I don't find it persuasive which is why I use the higher number representing a single poke.) The original estimate for herd immunity was 60% (which they altered to 90% for purely political reasons). If you include the 40%, it explains and tracks nicely with the declining trends we've been seeing for nearly five months.

                    "I would say that somehow the virus is becoming weaker, or its only able to infect the remaining population who happen to have strong immune systems."

                    My son got COVID just before coming home from college for Thanksgiving break. We didn't know until he got tested the Friday afterwards. Yet despite two family Thanksgiving feasts (combined over 60 people) and 13 people living in the same home as my infected son during that period, not a single other person got it. And that was despite half a dozen (including my then-future son-in-law and his father) getting tested the next week after we informed them. And yes, my 19-yr-old son was symptomatic, registering a fever of 103 for two days.

                    (Just to be absurd, my wife actually sucked on the thermometer she had just used to take his temperature in hopes of contracting the illness.)

                    Purely anecdotal, of course, but does cause me to seriously question the numbers from the CDC...
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                    • Posted by term2 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                      I think the whole covid thing is very complex. It seems to me that in order to catch covid, you have to be xposed to a viral load that exceeds your body's immediately available antibody response. If your immune system was weak at the time of the exposure, or the viral load was particularly large, you come down with it and yor body has to fight it. The problem is that we hardly EVER know the severity of the viral load, OR the state of a person's immune system . The vaccine probably DOES increase the immune sresponse of a vaccinated person, but I bet there is a viral load number which will overcome even a vaccinated person's abilty to resist covid. (how come 6% of the vaccinated people still can get covid)
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                      • Posted by $ blarman 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                        I agree 100%. A little bit of just about anything and the body can fight it off. A lot of just about anything and the body can be overwhelmed.
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                        • Posted by term2 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                          I prefer the application of common sense logic to the prattling of dr Fauci with his hidden agendas
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                          • Posted by $ blarman 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                            As do I. I think one of the technocracy which has taken over the United States has given undue deference to so-called experts, ignoring their hidden agendas. One of my favorite movie lines remains the one from "Jurassic Park:" "Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could they didn't stop to think if they should."
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            • Posted by bobsprinkle 6 months, 2 weeks ago
              How many folks do you know that have "survived" after getting the stab. what is the preferred ratio?
              Also, how many of those survivors have not gotten the disease because of the vaccine. I understand that those who died were close to you. And it IS your choice.
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              • Posted by term2 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                We had 4 co workers a few weeks ago come down with very mild covid (smell and taste deficiency only), while I did not get get infected at all (I have been vaccinated, and they were not).

                I feel stupid wearing masks now, and am happy the leftist democratic governor in Nevada finally took away the statewide mask mandate. Some very leftist businesses still require the mask, but I will just NOT frequent them until they come to their senses.
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                • Posted by $ blarman 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                  "Some very leftist businesses still require the mask, but I will just NOT frequent them until they come to their senses."

                  Agreed. Most stores in my town saw huge business booms the day after the State finally lifted the mask mandate. Most business owners hadn't been pushing the masks for weeks prior because they recognized that they were just antagonizing a huge part of their customer base. So they posted their signs but were pretty lax on enforcement. There are still a few die-hards but they have their own rabid clientele and might as well post a "Zombies Welcome" sign on their doors.
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                  • Posted by term2 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                    The funny thing is that I find the TV series "walking dead" quite instructive as to dealing with the coronavirus. Think of the virus as a zombie. Let them invade your town and you get more infections. Close the borders, wait to kill all zombies already in the town, and the problem is gone.
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              • Posted by $ blarman 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                About the same number of people who've gotten the actual illness - and survived. To me, the "vaccine" is neither more trustworthy nor more safe than the pathogen. (Given that the average condition of one succumbing to COVID-19 is over 70 years old and has two other significant health issues, I cast a very skeptical eye at the "panic porn" the media has been spewing this last year.)

                Example: A family I'm good friends live down the street. COVID knocked out their entire family (parents with several grown kids living with them) for a week. Everyone survived with no lasting consequences but were really sick at the time. Contrast with a brother-in-law who just got his second shot and was - ironically - crowing about how the second dose knocked him on his can and put him out of work for a week. Now my sister (his wife) had almost no symptoms from the shots, but that seems to be pretty par-for-the-course regarding the pathogen as well - with most people getting it and never even noticing.

                If I could give this last year a title from a Shakespearean play, it would be "Much Ado About Nothing."
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              • Posted by term2 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                4 people I work with have gotten mild covid. I have been vaccinated and escaped without getting it. Thats only one data point, but I am happy I took the stabs.
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          • Posted by 25n56il4 6 months, 2 weeks ago
            Oh yeah? Well smoke on this... I have Graves Disease and that is a biggee autoimmune disease. So my doctors won't let me take the vaccine. What are the power mongers gonna do about that?
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            • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 months, 2 weeks ago
              You have to make the best decision you can based on your own individual health conditions. I was simply addressing why someone who had gotten covid might still want the vaccine.
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              • Posted by term2 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                I have this sneaking feeling that getting infected with the virus doesnt just end the next day. I think the virus stays in various organs and creates havoc for months.
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              • Posted by $ blarman 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                I don't pretend to understand that logic at all. The entire point of a vaccine is to spur the body to create immunity to a pathogen artificially in lieu of contracting the illness. If you've already contracted the illness, what immunity do you hope to gain from a vaccine that you didn't gain from natural immunity?
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                • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                  Because your immunity "to a pathogen" is a simplification. You actually build triggers to specific proteins on the pathogen. If you are infected your system will build pick which proteins to become alerted by.

                  If the virus mutates, and they do all the time, the protein your system picked might be one that changes and it doesn't do a good job of recognizing the threat.

                  The vaccine picked the protein for the "spike" which is the most dangerous part so as long as it's still there you will recognize it. And if it mutates away the virus will be less dangerous.
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                  • Posted by $ blarman 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                    The implied arguments, however, are severely flawed.
                    1) That the body's own immune system will create a response to the origianal pathogen inferior to that of an artificial vaccine
                    2) That the body's natural immune response will be less effective against mutations than an articially-induced response

                    and most dangerously
                    3) That an artificially-induced response will not have serious complications not present in a naturally-occurring immunity.

                    Neither 1) nor 2) above has been shown to be accurate. With respect to 3), the evidence of serious side-effects (with over 600,000 recorded to date) such as blood clots and the potential for placental separation are known concerns. Blood clots have been a serious concern in the UK and were what killed my wife's friend - only 40 years old - when one descended into her lungs. Placental separation causes miscarriage and renders the woman infertile.

                    I don't believe science's understanding of genomic biology is nearly as perfect as is necessary to claim superiority to that of nature itself.
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                    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                      I don't think I agree with #1 -- the spike protein was picked to make the vaccine most likely to still be effective with mutations. This is something your immune system wouldn't "know" to do.

                      I'm not sure if I would characterize an artificially induced response as more or less effective. I'm just talking about the target.

                      And, just to be clear, I am saying why one might want to get a vaccination after having the disease. One might also chose to forgo the theoretical advantage to avoid the risk of a vaccine. And any thing that triggers an immune reaction has a small risk of it getting out of control.

                      Natural Covid has a lot of evidence for serious side effects too, so saying I'll just get the disease and build immunity the natural way doesn't mean you are free from side effects.
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                      • Posted by $ blarman 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                        Your argument was that the vaccine provides superior protection to that of the body's natural immune response. That is the only logical reason I can come up with why someone who has had the illness would get the shots. I outlined several of the implicit claims such a theory is predicated upon. You bear the burden of proving your theory by addressing the concerns I outlined.

                        I never claimed that the pathogen can not generate serious side effects on its own. The evidence states otherwise. The question is one of risk assessment and cost-benefit analysis. I simply question the premises you present as being fundamentally flawed and as such leading to a flawed conclusion.

                        https://www.bitchute.com/video/K1RWgx...

                        This was presented on another thread here in the Gulch. It is an interview with the world's foremost vaccine engineer. Eye-opening to be sure.
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                        • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                          The argument is based on the fact that the vaccine is designed to make your immune system to generate a reaction to the portion of the virus that is considered to be the "novel" and most dangerous aspect. This was a conscious design decision to make it more likely to produce an immune response to variants of the virus that contained this protein. The theory was that mutations that did not contain it would be less dangerous.

                          I do think that conscious design is, at least theoretically, preferable to random reactions.

                          I got the vaccine. Would I have done so if I had gotten Covid before hand? I don't know, I guess it would have been based on how my system reacted to getting it in the first place. I have a number of the risk factors and specifically am taking ACE2 inhibitors which may provide additional binding points for the virus spike (or might block some binding points -- studies are underway).
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                          • Posted by $ blarman 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                            "The argument is based on the fact that the vaccine is designed..." (emphasis mine)

                            I understand that. The premise, however, is that human medicine can produce a more effective response than the natural body. That is prima faciae a highly questionable premise. Again, see the video I posted above.

                            "I do think that conscious design is, at least theoretically, preferable to random reactions."

                            Ah, so you see a natural response as "random" and therefore less effective. A curious premise and hardly supported by anything scientific, but each is entitled to draw their own conclusions.

                            Your decision to get the vaccine was your choice and - based on your divulged medical conditions - not without merit. I'm on the other end where I have none of the vulnerabilities to the virus that make a vaccine more attractive. When coupled with the personal experiences of complications as a direct result of the "vaccine" - including two deaths - I hope you can appreciate that my risk-reward equation swings decidedly in the opposite direction.
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                            • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 months, 2 weeks ago
                              I agree. I am not trying to persuade you to get vaccinated. I am simply addressing the statement that there is no advantage to getting vaccinated if you have already had the disease and built an immune reaction.

                              I think there is an advantage, how much of an advantage is clearly subject to question.
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