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Who is our real enemy?

Posted by NealS 6 years, 2 months ago to Politics
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I just had a chilling thought. If this government is our enemy, are not those that still continue to support it also our enemy?

What is more dangerous to us now, the government or all those that still support it?

Will the danger change as we get closer to the next election? Better or worse?

Today I'm flat out losing some old friends over the issues. I can't tell if they just became nasty or just plain stupid.

What do we need to do to prevent our demise into the darkness?


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    Posted by Eudaimonia 6 years, 2 months ago
    I don't believe it's the government per se which is the enemy.
    I believe it is the Ruling Class currently infesting our government which considers us their enemy.

    I believe in shrugging to communities of like minded individuals, not digging a hole in the ground and hiding.
    Shrugging, when you get right down to it, is at the heart of Constitutional Federalism: distinct Petri dishes of "democracy".

    Leave.
    Let them figure it out for themselves... or not.

    I had a lot of friends and family back in The People's Republic of Connecticut who were shocked that I actually did what I said, and left.

    I would suggest looking into a Free State Project.

    Also, just because the Ruling Class dismisses our Constitution, does not mean that it is invalidated.
    It is only invalidated if we join them in dismissing it.
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 6 years, 2 months ago
      Regarding whether the Ruling Class or the government that is the enemy, it is getting quite difficult to tell the difference. Other than that, we agree completely. We are INdependent (miscapitalization intended) and are therefore a threat.
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    • Posted by khalling 6 years, 2 months ago
      Euda, is your current county one of those which is supporting secession with colorado counties?
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      • Posted by Eudaimonia 6 years, 2 months ago
        I'm not sure, but I doubt it.
        Cheyenne is in Laramie county which is much less Left than the People's Republic of Connecticut, but much more Left than the rest of Wyoming (excluding Jackson Hole).
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        • Posted by UncommonSense 6 years, 2 months ago
          So, do you like your new license plates with the cowboy on it? Got a truck? I'm sure you weren't impressed with the Frontier Mall right? Also, have you been to the Twin Dragon for the best Chinese?
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          • Posted by Eudaimonia 6 years, 2 months ago
            I do like my new license plate with the cowboy on it.

            I do not yet have a truck, although I am going to have to get one.

            I was unimpressed by The Frontier Mall for Western reasons, not Eastern: I walked up and saw large "No Weapons" signs on the doors. I thought to myself, "Really?" I had to go back to my car and stow my carry revolver. The guys at the nearby bike shop, on the other hand, completely understood when I asked for a frame bag suitable for storing it while I ride. (To those who are thinking "Why?", for two reasons: 1) Aggressive wild critters 2) Because I *can*)

            I have not been to the Twin Dragon.
            Do you recommend it?
            Where else do you recommend?
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            • Posted by jimjamesjames 6 years, 2 months ago
              I got my first bucking horse (Stub Farlow is the rider) license plate in Laramie in 1978, was so proud of it, I drove up into the Medicine Bow mts. and took a picture of me in front of my little Datsun pickup with the plate showing. Still have the picture.

              In Wyoming, anyone legally allowed to own a gun can carry concealed, no permit needed. As to "no weapons" signs, I ignore them. Since it's a "business" decision by the proprietor, it's not a law and the only consequence would be to be asked to leave.
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            • Posted by $ Susanne 6 years, 2 months ago
              No Weapons? What is it, a free-range zone for terrorists?

              Anyplace that believes in unconstitutional values is, by definition, unamerican, and I try not to patronize unamerican places.

              Say what you will, but at east in California it is a "preference" sign, not one that carries the weight of law...
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              • Posted by IndianaGary 6 years, 2 months ago
                The problem with California is that it is a "may issue" state and most sheriffs simply won't.
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                • Posted by $ Susanne 6 years, 2 months ago
                  That just means you have to be very careful where you choose to live if you do so in California. Some sheriffs are *very* pro-constitution, pro 2nd amendment. Ours is. And that's part of the reason we moved here from the SF Bay Area, home of Frau Fineswine and Babs Peloser.

                  There are, indeed, some places in this state which are worth living in.. a lot of which are trying to secede from the nutcases from Sacramento South and West.
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            • Posted by khalling 6 years, 2 months ago
              depending on the trail, it can be quite dangerous of the human variety. Our favorite trail in Colorado Springs was next to a river and many homeless lived nearby and drug traffic-ers used it as their "highway." It was not unusual for bikers to be assaulted
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            • Posted by UncommonSense 6 years, 2 months ago
              Greetings...been out..weather in south county today is nice.

              I didn't think you were going to like the mall. That's why you're better off driving down to Ft. Collins and hitting the mall there. Plus, Ft. Collins is only 4200 feet, so a bit easier for breathing. Ft. Collins is also a college town, so be on the watch for collegiate cuties. :)

              Besides the Twin Dragon, diagonally across from it is the coffee & tobacco shop ~ City News. It was the only one in town when I was last there in Feb 2007, so I imagine they should still be in business. They have great coffee and the magazine & book selection is pretty good too. The tobacco offerings were decent, but don't expect to be impressed.

              That's all I can think of at the moment. Oh, for quiet walks, I'm sure you've already discovered the park with the pond in the middle. Other than that, I think you've seen all that Cheyenne has to offer. But 2007 is getting back there, so I'm sure there are new things to do since my clan and I left.

              Good luck on getting the truck. Expect to pay premium prices, no matter how old or how many miles.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 6 years, 2 months ago
      If someone considers you their enemy (the ruling class, in this case), it would behoove you to consider them as your enemy, if you want to survive and not be enslaved or destroyed by the enemy. Properly recognizing (and evaluating) your enemy is always the first step in a successful procecution of any war.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 6 years, 2 months ago
    The government is people. We often forget that those people are our neighbors, our relatives, even our family members.

    As to losing friends, maybe they weren't so much friends as they were acquaintances, but there are new friends to be found.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 2 months ago
      Perhaps, real friends don't usually yell at you and tell you to shut your mouth, calling you nasty names, just because they disagree with you. And they especially don't do so in your own house. It became a personal attack. They left and I haven't heard from them again. Only knew them about 15 years. Does it bother me, well, yes, in a way, but mostly a political way. Would I take them back, no, not unless I got an apology and they told me they had their heads up their sas. I wonder how they can continue to support this administration. Perhaps not a real friend after all. We still have some friends that we totally disagree with but they don't make personal attacks on us.

      I have a friend from 55 years ago. We're still great friends. About 50 years ago he called me a PSAFB, a pcirk siht sas fekcur bstarad (you get the political correct spelling here). We came up with the acronym soon after. We've never forgotten it, we still laugh and joke about it today. He did so in a fit of anger, forgot what is was about, not over any particular issue, he just got mad.
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 6 years, 2 months ago
        One of my few friends is an Irish-Catholic turned agnostic from New York City and a man that I mentored in business. He never truly converted from socialist to objectivist, but after working with me for about ten years had a strong conversion to free market capitalism. It frustrated him to no end to find that he enjoyed the give and take of capitalist business because of his socialist upbringing. We've been friends for 30 years and we still enjoy jabbing each other but there's no hate or dislike there. He's one of the very few men that's ever 'gotten' me.
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      • Posted by IndianaGary 6 years, 2 months ago
        It's clear that you and your ex-friends did not share the most important thing: values. Name calling (ad hominem) and personal attacks have no useful purpose in rational discourse. You are better off without them. One question, however; in retrospect, were you surprised after the break occurred?
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  • Posted by radical 6 years, 2 months ago
    Anyone who supports the present administration or socialism in general is not a friend. He or she is advocating the destruction of your privacy, prosperity, and freedom and is unworthy of your friendship.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 2 months ago
      That's the way I kind of feel about it. If they act appropriately and still treat me with respect I can still be friends, but those that swear at me or call me names, making it personal, I will no longer tolerate, period. I figure they are prejudiced in their beliefs and just do not know why. They love the big "D" but don't know why, it's just because. I've got a lot more friends that are worthy of my friendship and practically all of them agree with me.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 2 months ago
    It certainly is a chilling thought. The current regime in Washington is the more immediate danger, but the entities of entitlement will continue to be alive and well even if they are ousted from power. They'll always be baaack. If this November doesn't get them to be the minority in both house and senate then it is too late in any case. We're just flapping our lips. If it comes about that more conservative types win in '14 and get the presidency in '16 there is a glimmer of hope.

    The moochers never go away, they just regroup. They are already deeply into the education systems and hard at work subverting children. Without looking it up, I think that around 45% of people are employed by the government in one way or another and Washington, D.C. provides the highest incomes of any other location. Lots of work to be done. Can it happen? Maybe, if we tirelessly keep working at it. If not, and Atlantis is the major effort, then be prepared to be an enclave in a long regressive civilization.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 2 months ago
    There is a difference between the principles of governance and the people in charge of implementing the policy. I still believe in the original principles this nation was founded on, but I believe that the people in charge of safe-guarding those principles have perverted and warped them so that the operational principles of our current government no longer reflect the founding principles at all.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 6 years, 2 months ago
    Any government that doesn't restrict itself to the legitimate role of furthering and protecting the individual rights of the people is indeed an enemy.
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  • Posted by $ Temlakos 6 years, 2 months ago
    You've been watching "The Hunger Games: Catching Fire," I see. In the climactic scene, Peeta Mellark shouts to Katniss Everdeen, "Remember who the real enemy is!" Whereupon she changes the plan by the electronics genius to electrocute the non-allied Tributes with a wire conducting a lightning strike their way. Instead, in a twist on Ben Franklin's lightning experiment, she shoots an arrow into a dome. An arrow carrying a wire from a tree due to get a lightning strike. Thus carrying the war to the enemy. Literally.

    That aside: there would seem to be three parties:

    1. The government,

    2. The body of voters who keep electing a government that will give them free soup and free stuff of other kinds, and

    3. The real ruling class, the james Taggarts and Orren Boyles and Wesley Mouches and Floyd Ferrises, who manipulate Class 2.

    John Galt, in his speech, mobilized the last of the like-minded. But is that enough? Can we pick off some adherents of Class 2 above by reminding them Class 3 might help them cope with poverty but will never get them out of it?
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    • Posted by Bobhummel 6 years, 2 months ago
      Actually, it was Finnick who said that line, but it is a great line used to jog her memory of when Haymich told her the same thing as they parted in the training center.
      Cheers
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  • Posted by $ jlc 6 years, 2 months ago
    I agree with DrZarkov. We are not in a tribal society; we should refrain from thinking in tribal terms. The fact that these people were friends for 15 years may mean that you were deceived by them for a long time...or it may mean that you had - and still have - a lot in common. Except politics.

    This is my case with many of my friends. If I get my chores done today (moving 6 large bookcases upstairs by myself), then I will be going to a party tomorrow. Pretty much everyone there is a flaming liberal. They know my ideology. So far, this has not been a problem. (I have known most of the folks there for 20 years plus...I know, not very Californian of me to have long term friends...)

    In such an environment, I chat happily about advances in the technology of medicine, they talk with me about aerospace and physics and lasers. Then we discuss heraldry, strategy, renovations, martial arts, linguistics, primitive textiles...There is a lot we have in common. If the topic of Obama comes up, I say, "Ya'know, it is a hell of a thing to think that all that History will say of you is, "The important thing about Obama is that he was the first black president of the US." "

    I will add that did my friends reject me for my political beliefs, I would consider it their responsibility to mend the breach.

    Jan
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  • Posted by starznbarz 6 years, 2 months ago
    The national media is the enemy. Statists such as Obama, Clinton, Reid, Boehner, Pelosi, etc. do exactly what you expect from communist`s,marxists, socialists, etc., But, they are ONLY successful if the media, who is the only " institution" named for protection in the Constitution, is derelict in their DUTY to inform the people with simple and complete facts. That they act willingly against the people through lies and selective reporting to support an ideology, is nothing short of treason.
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  • Posted by johnmahler 6 years, 2 months ago
    Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude. Tocqueville
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom. Tocqueville
    I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America. Tocqueville
    I don't think it can be better said, in answer to your question, than Tocqueville says it in these three quotes. In simpler terms it is the age old question concerning the relationship between chicken and egg.



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  • Posted by $ allosaur 6 years, 2 months ago
    It is all tit for tat depending what sort of people are in control of the government. IMO, before when he was a socialist indoctrinated community organizer, the Chairman-In-Chief considered people who think like us to be his enemy. When I first heard him call me his enemy a few years back, that is when I realized he and his supporters were my "enemy" by that name. It all became perfectly clear. Virtually a declaration of war.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_YbX9QF...
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 6 years, 2 months ago
    I still have some liberal friends and relatives who communicate with me, so let me share the rules of the game: find common ground, mostly on libertarian issues like personal privacy, if you can't avoid discussing such things; when someone throws out an obviously inflammatory comment, respond with a neutral comment, like "that's different"; avoid personal jibes or name calling, and just laugh when they throw such things your direction. Keeping the relationships personal and social helps to keep the dialogue open, so that when they show signs of waking up, you can be there to help guide them.

    For the most extreme cases, it still helps to keep contacts. Better to know what your enemy is thinking than to be surprised.

    If TSHTF, we'll need to be able to help each other. Becoming a hermit is counterproductive. Societal breakdown will move in favor of those most prepared, and better to have allies than enemies.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 2 months ago
      Yes, we should be polite in our discourse, but I am under no illusions that liberals/progressives are at all interested in reality until it thwacks them upside the head numerous times with a large no-so-foam clue bat.
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    • Posted by IndianaGary 6 years, 2 months ago
      Sorry, when I hear a so-called "friend" say something perversely evil I find it impossible not to call them on it. Going along, to get along, is how we got here in the first place. I do have friends, but none of the kind I have to tiptoe around.
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  • Posted by radical 6 years, 2 months ago
    It's called "providing aid and comfort to the enemy."
    You certainly do not need those former "friends." Stick to your guns.
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  • Posted by wiggys 6 years, 2 months ago
    the answer to the last question is for our population to become educated about our past and taught to think. based upon that I do not believe we can stop the demise.
    the answer to the other 4 questions is exactly what you have stated that the government and those who support it are the enemy of the rest of the population of the country.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 6 years, 2 months ago
    Stupidity is our enemy.

    And, that has nothing to do with whether or not somebody agrees with me. People can't form sentences anymore. So many people are looking at their smart phones that when the traffic lights turn green around here the cars all just sit there. We're doomed...
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  • Posted by Fountainhead24 6 years, 2 months ago
    BOTH! Excellent synopsis!
    The danger is not those that continue to support a government that is opposed to We The People... the danger is those of We The People who do not recognize that threat and therefore do not take action to prevent it. They are ignorant of the reality of the situation. Does that make them the enemy? No! But it certainly does make them complicit with the enemy.
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  • Posted by sneudoerffer 6 years, 2 months ago
    This comment is much closer to how we need to view the steady march to a statist takeover of our representative republic as created by our founders. These liberal politicians don't offer the greedy constituency of the left anything that they don't demand of them to begin with.
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  • Posted by BaritoneGary 6 years, 2 months ago
    The government's policies are a direct reflection of the desires of it's population. I submit that the real enemy, is the one's seeking entitlements. It seems that we are rapidly approaching, (or have surpassed) the time in which the takers have the majority. I don't believe that anyone that does not own property, should have the right to vote. If that were the case, we would love the policies and our government, because it would serve US, (not them)!
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  • Posted by JohnBrown 6 years, 2 months ago
    The people will vote themselves into slavery, whether out of greed or ignorance (or both) it is difficult to say. Only when the shackles are slipped on, only when there is the midnight knock on the door, will they wake up. Atlas Shrugged probably had the right idea as a fitting conclusion--a strike. Not a bad literary device, but highly improbable in the real world.
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  • Posted by sfdi1947 6 years, 2 months ago
    While those who support our oligarch government are "enemy combatants" our worst enemy is the apathetic fools who are too lost in their own small considerations and self-aggrandizement to have an educated opinion and who fail to strive for what in their opinion, is the common good.
    Buttrock Obummer's 'Landslide' [The mendicant media's term, not mine.] was composed of a ill-gotten majority made up of 47.3 percent of eligible, registered voters.
    Therein is our most severe difficulty are the disenfranchised voters who are too caught up in their own concerns to, if they have an opinion, vote.
    If we could franchise the disinterested majority none of the criminal proceedings conducted by Capital Critters Class in Washington and other places would occur, being watched, and knowing it, they would be much more likely to vote their conscience, not the 'party line.'
    When asked, "What sort of government is the convention debating?" by a woman, he answered, "A Republic, madam, if you can keep it!" and therein lies the challenge, for the electorate has largely fallen asleep, and therein is the solution, we must wake them up.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 6 years, 2 months ago
    How is treason defined today. Under old standards the Prez and his cabinet (mostly Muslins) would be considered treasonous. They do NOT support the ideals on which this country was formed, the seem to seek to destroy it. If they are not the enemy, who needs an enemy. Russia, what difference between their government and ours, except the names. I ff those who support current government refuse to be educated, then yes, they are traitors as well.
    I have had some apathetic friends who say send only happy e-mails, and yes, I drop them. On the other hand, if I see a spark of interest in being educated, I can wean them into the full truth. It is a slow battle, fought one person at a time, but not doing so is a gloomy alternative.
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  • Posted by jdg 6 years, 2 months ago
    I'm still to be convinced whether or not the US can be redeemed (and I don't mean in the religious sense).

    The government has grown beyond all constitutional limits and needs to be rolled way back, *and* as someone says in Part 2, they have gone out of their way to make everyone a criminal, so they can persecute whom they want. So unless and until there's real, major reform, we all do need to stop cooperating with law enforcement in any way. Also, never call them for any reason.

    A real "Galt's Gulch" in the sense of a country where we can build our thing would be a better answer, but there isn't any. Yet.

    In the meantime, yes, remember who the real enemy is, but not to try to get even. Just to avoid helping them is enough for now.
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    • Posted by BaritoneGary 6 years, 2 months ago
      I agree. All police have become is a paramilitary force, which is being used against the citizenry (which is in violation of law!). We have become the persecuted and the prosecuted. If you ever have to interface with them, advise them that you are with "Cop Watch" and get their badge number and all information pertaining to the reason that you were forced to deal with them. I have, and have filed reports. Search for Cop Watch and download whatever information you deem helpful from their web site.
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