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Has the time come for a real Galt's Gulch? If the worst should happen in November.

Posted by $ servo75 1 week ago to Going Galt
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If the worst should happen, and the Democrats get power again (which let's be honest, will happen eventually even if we successfully delay the inevitable in 2020), I think we have to give serious consideration to some semblance of Galt's Gulch. Even Rand knew such a place in real life would be completely fantastical, yet we have advantages that Galt and Mulligan didn't have, such as the ability to organize online and recruit thousands if not millions of people where Galt had to do so one at a time.

I started thinking about this when Bill Whittle made a Stratosphere Lounge video talking about a "Plan B" should the worst happen this November. He used the analogy that if you were on a ship and a child went overboard, you'd jump in to save him/her. If you found yourself attached to an anvil, you know it's going down no matter what so you cut yourself off from it. The talk was a little rambling but he then mentioned geographic segregation, even the possibility of moving to one state like Texas or New Hampshire (has to be a state with an international border and/or coastline), and seceding.

I say this only PARTLY tongue in cheek - it's not a literal suggestion or an attempt to start such a movement... yet. But it's something to think about. We prepare for every other potential emergency in life. A socialist takeover of our government is bigger than any other emergency I can think of so shouldn't we have a plan in place? You can rebuild after a hurricane or earthquake. What the Democrats are proposing is incurable. It will eventually fail and there will be a call for more market and other freedom, but the situation would get far worse before it gets better. I keep saying the only way mask laws will EVER end, vaccine or no, is mass resistance. May be the same for our nation as a whole. Because like Bill Whittle's analogy, a Democrat victory in November is a sign that the ship is no longer salvageable, that the American populous, maybe America itself, is too far gone to save. So salvage what you can and cut ourselves from the anvil.


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  • Posted by freedomforall 1 week ago
    Getting independently minded people to make such a decision makes herding cats seem as easy as tic-tac-toe.

    Getting people to leave their homes for a far away land is a decision that will make many rational people favor the familiar and convenient chains over possible freedom.

    If the left takes control, any attempt at secession will be met with military force that will make Lincoln's war a triviality.

    The same response will occur to any geographically focused resistance, e.g., a refusal to trade. How many farmers were sent to the gulag before farmers became more compliant in the USSR? Compliant is not competent or productive, and many more died of cirrhosis and starvation than went to the gulag. Either "peaceful resistance" choice leads down the same road to serfdom and the death of American freedom.

    There is no easy answer and no path to freedom without great sacrifice.
    Not many people are mentally prepared to make such a sacrifice. If the electricity goes off, surrender will be immediate for all but the most prepared. The great majority are lost when their smart phones lose connections.

    Whatever is done must be geographically decentralized, extremely simple to do, and extremely difficult for the state to interfere with. The only thing that I can think of that has any chance of having an effect on the enemy is a consumer strike against large corporate products and a return to local trade. Even this may be a bigger sacrifice than 90% are willing to make.

    There is no safety for pigs in a pig farm.
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  • Posted by $ Commander 1 week ago
    Servo, there used to be lands afar...no longer.
    I have moved more rural, from a metro of 2.5 mil to a county of 75k. The bulk of the landmass is involved in primary trades of agriculture, forestry, mining and the immediate secondary and tertiary processes of these. People who are closer to the sources of their mortality make less assumptions than those distanced in larger cities. We are closer in community and all the natural supports that come from less anonimity. The rural areas "feed" the cities....we don't have to do this if the demand for control over our lives become too great...all we have to do is blockade the urban areas for a few weeks. We can adjust our rural lives to that of sustenance vs the belief that we must enjoin in the fictions of economics of the Metropolitans.

    There is no greater teacher of humility than a slack belly.
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  • Posted by VetteGuy 1 week ago
    As other commenters have noted, your best bet is probably an 'individual Gulch'. Rural areas in southern states would be a good place to look, if you are able to move. The people surrounding you will rarely call themselves Objectivists, but based on the number of Trump signs I see on my road trips, they are not fans of socialism.
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    • Posted by $ Snezzy 6 days, 10 hours ago
      Long ago, when Rand was answering the question, "Is Atlas Shrugging?" with the suggestion that it's not yet time, and the Libertarians were trying to be Gulchers and failing at every step (Republic of Minerva comes to mind), I wondered what an actual John Galt would resemble. Activist people who proclaimed their Libertarianism or Randism were laughably inept. Where was John Galt?

      I now think I know the answer.
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    • Posted by $ 5 days, 23 hours ago
      Well, I guess it doesn't have to be one single Gulch for everyone, but as Galt himself said, "form your own communities at the outskirts of your crumbling world." So if objectist / libertarian / conservatives start congregating in a few states, yes it will make the states they leave more blue but secession isn't really necessary. We already have sanctuary cities to protect illegal aliens. So if the government puts out some insane anti-gas law, the people simply ignore it and the LOCAL law enforcement refuses to enforce it. It's kind of what I'm starting to see now with the masks. "You can't make me wear it, you don't want to make me wear it and you know it, so I'm going to take it off and be an example for others and this thing will spread until you realize it's unenforceable." I watched the Ken Burns "Prohibition" documentary several years ago and that was a similar conclusion. People saw the hypocrisy, the impossible and uneven enforcement. They wanted to drink again but the drys were so stubborn in not giving an inch that they eventually lost the war entirely. That's what I'm seeing from the Mask Karens now. You can only press so much before the people rebel. No reason we can't do that with guns or "carbon emission laws."

      Our governor is up for election this year and if he wins (maybe even if he doesn't), I've decided my next move will be to nearby Idaho or Montana. At least I'll be surrounded by mostly like-minded people who aren't going to take Democrat authoritarianism standing down.
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  • Posted by Idiocracy42 1 week ago
    It takes time, money and will to create a gulch, even a small one like mine that is far from ready. I don’t see any feasible way to build a “real/community gulch” without years of planning and coordinating. After a bad hurricane experience in Florida, my husband and I started on our plan – moving out to nowhere(ish) and learning, learning, learning. (A year ago I’d never heard of a hog ring and would have been wrong had I taken a guess).

    The best I think we can do is each create our own gulch and, if we are fortunate, avoid proximity to the looters. My limited experience says that looters are not congregating in remote farming areas, so the chances are fair that you and your neighbors are busy tending to the livestock, fencing, crops and blisters, instead of rioting or binge-watching the latest pap on Netflix.

    (BTW, I have a giant crop of Central Texas rocks, if anyone is in the market. All ready for harvesting!!! 😊)
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    • Posted by mccannon01 6 days, 7 hours ago
      Ha, you made me smile here of a long ago memory. I and my siblings are of the first generation of our family to not have worked a farm (my wife spent her youth on a dairy farm). I recall, in my youth, asking my grandfather what they grew on the farm in the southern tier of NY. He answered, "Rocks. Lots of rocks." LOL!
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    • Posted by Eyecu2 6 days, 9 hours ago
      My wife and I are in the Houston area and are doing similar things to what you are talking about. I am curious about the area of Florida that you are referring to as we left central Florida (Lakeland) in 07 not to long after the hurricanes of 05.
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      • Posted by Idiocracy42 6 days, 8 hours ago
        Irma in 2017. We lived right on the beach in Melbourne Beach (lovely, semi-isolated area). We had to evac for Irma, gas shortage, traffic etc... 17 hours to Atlanta! Glad we lived there; more glad to be in Tex.
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  • Posted by trailsRus 6 days, 9 hours ago
    Greetings fellow gulchers. I am a long time follower but rare commenter. This topic is the one that interests me the most, considering my situation. I own an historic 8-generation family farm, acquired 185 years ago directly from the homestead estate of the first governor and an original settler. We are in a rural area but too close to a suburban/urban center in a deep blue state with progressive supermajorities in both houses. No, not CA, but the same insane policies which have been driving out business and jobseekers for years, while attracting "educated" (indoctrinated) urban out-of-staters whose policies are even worse or further entrenched. But for taxes and regulations, we are easily self-sufficient here. And if not for the upcoming 9th generation and feeling an obligation for keeping the land intact, spouse and I would probably bug out to somewhere more remote.

    I try to take comfort in the fact that there must be places like ours that survived the revolutionary and civil war periods, but that is tempered by today's advanced mobility and surveillance technology, beyond being overrun by looters. Knowing that so many of my neighbors are flaming liberal socialists who would be among the first ones looking for help doesn't help, but I see the government and its enforcers as the bigger threat...catch 22.
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    • Posted by $ Commander 5 days, 23 hours ago
      If you've the land Patent history file allodial title if applicable in your state.

      https://info.courthousedirect.com/blo...
      Exerpt: "A land patent is the only form of proof of absolute title to land in the United States. It protects the landowner from claimants of co-ownership as well as the United States government.
      A land patent is granted to the named party and his, her, or their heirs and assigns forever. Without a land patent, there is the potential to lose ownership of your property in a land contest. With a land patent, the property is no longer subject to any third party challenge."
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      • Posted by trailsRus 5 days, 16 hours ago
        That's interesting, thank you. I will look further into how it is treated in this state and if the fact that the farm was incorporated 50 years ago would have an affect. Shares are currently held by 3 family members, who would also concur with the intent of a land patent.
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        • Posted by $ Commander 5 days, 13 hours ago
          You're welcome. Definitely look into the Incorporation. These things enjoin to the corporate structures of municipalities. It is very similar to enrollment of Social Security in context.
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    • Posted by term2 6 days, 8 hours ago
      You can "hide in plain sight" as long as you dont raise too many suspicions about being rich or too conservative.
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      • Posted by trailsRus 5 days, 15 hours ago
        Probably too late, but I arrived at that conclusion several years back after volunteering for town committees, attempting to infuse some concept of property rights and taking personal responsibility for their "wants" by their groups assuming the cost thereof. They want their special interest groups to control the use of public property while passing the costs off on the grand list. Of course, I was outnumbered and, as they rightfully point out, the town (and state) votes overwhelmingly for their prescriptions, and I'm not equipped with the time, personality and resources to take on the leviathan.
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        • Posted by term2 5 days, 11 hours ago
          You can redeem yourself by withdrawing from politics and just minding your own business, as it were. its disgusting to have to do that, but the alternative to hiding in plain sight is probably death and destruction
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        • Posted by freedomforall 5 days, 14 hours ago
          Same experience here, trails.
          Rand had it right. The "peaceful" solution is a strike because sociopaths will kill millions to keep their power. To them might makes right.
          Power corrupts. One in a trillion can wield power without being corrupted. Trusting anyone with power is as rational as expecting to win the Powerball lottery every time.
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  • Posted by term2 6 days, 8 hours ago
    I would move to Texas if it seceded. I wonder if the collectivists would ALLOW Texas to secede without military intervention as in the first american civil war. There would be at a minimum a lot of travel restrictions and other economic restrictions on trade with an errant state. If we look at the treatment Trump is getting from the left, imagine how they would treat a state like Texas.
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    • Posted by $ Commander 6 days, 7 hours ago
      You might find this interesting.
      https://www.texassecede.com/faq.php
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      • Posted by term2 6 days, 7 hours ago
        Oh well, the part about texans not being as independent as they once were is probably right. Not likely to give up the goodies the USA would offer
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        • Posted by $ Commander 5 days, 23 hours ago
          Here's a little more regarding TX.....own the land free of debt and file allodial title.
          https://info.courthousedirect.com/blo...
          "The State of Texas, unlike the other 49 states in the union, never officially ceded its lands via an enabling act to the U.S. government during its annexation. The federal government, therefore, may not enjoy supremacy over land patents and deed issued by the Texas state government."
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          • Posted by Idiocracy42 5 days, 13 hours ago
            Thanks for this info!
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            • Posted by $ Commander 5 days, 13 hours ago
              Very welcome. Yesterday I was invited to meet with a Permaculture co-op, non-formal, about ten miles north of my new place. I cannot file any allodial title as I am within a city boundary. These folks can. I plan to bring this to their attention for exploration. Wis is a Land Patent / Allodial State. To withdraw from the Corporation of (......) is real power.
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              • Posted by Idiocracy42 5 days, 13 hours ago
                More reason to come to Texas :-)
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                • Posted by $ Commander 5 days, 12 hours ago
                  That's a nice thought, yet I have parents to tend until they expire. Mom will probably make 100+. A line of Centurians.
                  This may seem weird; I don't think I can ever be more in awe of clear skies and the squeak/crunch of snow during -15 deg days.
                  I have a series of fresh water oceans to play upon and spend time reflecting upon my universal insignificance and vulnerability. I enjoin in a community that dons "shorts" as soon as the temps rise above freezing. The "dying" time of winters are the beautiful counterpoint of re-growth of life.
                  I lived in Lubbock for 4 years.....North is my choice. I thrive when the temps dive!
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          • Posted by term2 5 days, 11 hours ago
            cool. I suppose if you have a government mortgage they could still say they own the land. One way or another, secession would involve armed conflict as it did in the first civil war
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  • Posted by dansail 6 days, 10 hours ago
    The true Gulch concept in Atlas Shrugged was based on fictitious factors (a power supply that taps energy from atmospheric static electricity, minting their own gold coin, hiding the entire community under a screen of invisibility) that make it unrealizable. That being said, there are other ideas in this thread that seem more feasible.

    I can only imagine that willingly withdrawing from certain aspects of society/civic life can be helpful. Perhaps being able to only do business with other 'Gulchers' is sustainable as well, without having to give up home and hearth. This wouldn't be the first time there's been a secret society.

    The idea here is to be as productive as possible without having looters take what's not theirs.
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    • Posted by term2 6 days, 8 hours ago
      what you are suggesting is 'hiding in plain sight" within a collectivist society. I agree with this as being a more likely scenario moving forward.
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  • Posted by $ prof611 6 days, 11 hours ago
    After President Trump wins the 2020 election, the Democratic party will cease to exist. They will not have anyone left. The elite members will have completely lost the Federal Reserve, and thus will no longer have any power. The other members will finally support our President.
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    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 6 days, 6 hours ago
      I'm not sure I follow that, but this is pivotal. If Trump gets another four years, he will withdraw from the socialist, whining UN, seriously derail the swamp, and get us back on a path to domestic success and freedom.

      If Biden wins, the totalitarian Dems will attempt to enact such crap to make ObamaCare look like Peace Corps.
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      • Posted by $ 5 days, 23 hours ago
        If he had done more of that in the first term, we might not be on the knife's edge that we are now. First two years in office we could require stricter voting laws, end agencies, because guarantee the voters hate big government, especially bureaucracies, even if they won't admit it to themselves or others.
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      • Posted by $ prof611 6 days, 4 hours ago
        If you can't follow that, you should watch an episode or two of the X22 Reports, to see what's going on behind the MSM.
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        • Posted by $ pixelate 5 days, 23 hours ago
          Thank you for the X22 reminder. I have viewed and thought about the X22 presentations over the last few years; however, X22 fell off my radar ... mostly as a result of reading / thinking about articles shared by SLL (Straight Line Logic). Heading over the X22 in a bit.
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  • Posted by Eyecu2 6 days, 9 hours ago
    I understand that you are being somewhat tongue in cheek but I have personally taken this seriously.. I don't believe that there is any place that we could go, because if we did they would follow us. I have therefore retreated to a very rural area outside a major metropolitan area. So that i can still work for a decent wage and yet live as I see fit. There are trade offs. For instance I am having to play along with this entire COVID BS and wear a mask. Though I may soon change careers to get away from that as well.

    I really think that the closest that we can ever come to true the Gulch will be what we currently have here. As we are free to express ourselves honestly and still move about within their society and hopefully influence some few of them to see the light. At least that's what I have been doing as a High School teacher.
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  • Posted by $ pixelate 5 days, 22 hours ago
    I think that it will get far worse before it gets better. The downward decay will occur over at least another 25 years ... a full generation. Then we will have to be dragged and bumped along the bottom for another 25 or so years before there is enough of a level of discontent with the open and widespread misery.

    As for the Muzzle mandates -- I test the waters and resist (no muzzle) whenever I think I can cross the line of defiance. In other places, such as the big box and local stores, I just wear my absurd gas mask and tin foil hat... Just thought of something... I could put my MAGA hat on top of my tin-foil-covered mountain-climbing helmet. Also, it might be good to mock those who still wear the muzzle -- in particular those loonies in the woods on trails or up at the snow level in the mountains... theirs is the sum of fear + ignorance + compliance + virtue-signaling.

    Regarding a real Galt's Gulch, I think that I will hide In Plain Sight... be the gray man. I will work in a manner to produce only enough for myself and will engage in trade in the black market. Trading in both skills and materials has merit. True Story: I own some acreage. One of my neighbors, who also owns land, made a trade to a local high-end home builder. He said to the builder "If you build me a castle on my property, then I will sell you five acres of my property for a song." The deal went through, my neighbor got his swanky new home, and the builder got five nice acres of view property which he used to build his castle. Win Win. And the actual money traded was trivial. So there are opportunities. A skill for skill trade -- one individual has medical experience (family practice doctor), the other has wealth growth and investing experience... I see the potential for a trade. Nothing is actually put into writing, so there are no records. One of my plans is to short plat one of my properties and "sell" a 10 acre parcel to a local (within Washington State) family farmer for growing produce (blueberries, cherries, apples) and then I am a business partner... all of this is in the planning / analysis stage. Develop a network of like-minded and like-actioned individuals. There is very little way to 'fake a farm' -- generational family farmers, owner/operators of auto repair facilities, carpenters, people that work their professions with talents and skills -- they are solid fixtures in a healthy network.

    I also see the value of PMs having a greater "currency" in the darker times ahead.

    Anyone here familiar with Devon Stack's "Day of the Rope?" It is a short novel. You can likely gather the implication from the book's title as to some of the "solutions" in terms of how to fight a statist regime.

    Monkey-wrenching had been the pastime of the greenies in years gone by. Our civilization is presently but a thin veneer ... so much of this vast complexity could be brought to a crescendo of catastrophe with very few hands. And if those hands belonged to competent engineers, it might only take 12 years to turn out the lights.
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