11

What is going on in the Gulch?

Posted by  $  mminnick 2 weeks, 1 day ago to Ask the Gulch
82 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

Over the last several weeks I have noticed a steady decline in the content of the posts in the Gulch. I don't visit every day but do visit several times a week. the level of discourse and acrimony has risen sharply and I do not understand why. All are free to post their thoughts and comments and usually are given a relatively large degree of latitude in content etc.
It has been years since I saw a post not shown due to low score or author issues. Don't really like seeing it now.
Has the insanity of the current political/social frame of our society penetrated into the Gulch to such a level that there are posts and replies that merit banning or decrementing to or below 0?
I'm sorry to see this happen there and fear the demise of the site if the trend gets worse.
There are many good people here. Somme I know via post and reply, some just by reading their posts and comments. There are some I'm just starting to see via their posts. I have not seen any that I would ban from posting or mark down their posts/comments.


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by Roland_Porter 2 weeks, 1 day ago
    Honestly if I didn't know better, I would have identified this as an exclusively conservative or "right-wing" message board.
    Maybe I'm just nervous or shy but there's something about this place that makes me hesitant to post anything.
    So far this site (and by extension Objectivism) has taught me that things are far more grey than the current political dichotomy would have us believe. I really hope this place doesn't amount to an us-versus-them standpoint because that certainly isn't healthy or rational.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  nickursis 2 weeks, 1 day ago
      Normally, it is not. Though it does reflect the larger society. We have our neighbors who feel they can run their pulse jet engine because they want too, and so they do. Never mind the noise. There are those whose dogma is the only thing, and who will say "You cannot speak, because your truth is not my truth, and you make me feel bad". Normally, discussion is good, there are some good debates, but the absolute rigidity gene is strong in some, and they seek to impose their belief on everyone else. That causes conflict. Look at what is going on out in the real world, same thing. Speak your mind, don't be afraid, a lot of people who do not even know you will stand up to anyone who tries to trash talk you or your position. Respect is owed to everyone till they prove they are not worthy.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  Dobrien 2 weeks, 1 day ago
        Yup some feel they know what belongs in a post or discussion and what doesn’t. They ignore this forums own ask the gulch shingle in the upper right which states: Got a question about Objectivism? Ayn Rand? Politics? Life? Dinner? Or... anything else for that matter. The Gulch wants to hear it. Ask away. When the self imposed objectivist police start gunning down the post or the poster because they have no interest in the topic or have a closed mind to new information it stifles the discussion. A solution would be to have those who don’t like or agree with the discussion to state their reasoning and quit judging instead of continually saying what belongs here and what doesn’t.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by SonofAyn 2 weeks, 1 day ago
          I found your calling a poster a Fuc- asswipe...
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by  $  Dobrien 2 weeks, 1 day ago
            A is A BTW he was banned right around the same time then he came right back with a new name “existence university.”
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by SonofAyn 2 weeks, 1 day ago
              Ok, but i am merely pointing out that you just stated that people need to criticize the philosophy, but you didn't, you just calling them a fucking asswipe. That's hypocritical.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by  $  Dobrien 2 weeks, 1 day ago
                Yes I did In reply to this statement.
                Posted by BiggestShoelaces 1 day, 6 hours ago
                You are the saltiest most butthurt idiot I have ever met.
                Point out the philosophy to me Mr Son ofAyn.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by  $  allosaur 2 weeks ago
                  Do believe you are talking to a pair of shoe laces. Me just a dino could be wrong, but I don't think so.
                  It's just something about yesterday's switcheroo ExistenceUniversity troll attack timing.
                  Hmm, the term "carpet bombing" comes to mind.
                  Perhaps, the end game is supposed to be this board's death from a thousand cuts.
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
                    I haven't followed whatever the switcheroos you refer to, but SonofAyn's comment is true.
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by  $  allosaur 2 weeks ago
                      Take a look in New. Look for two squashed Post Hidden(s) near the top. Click on both. Both show BiggestShoeLaces and ExistenceUniversity, who showed up yesterday, to be the same person. Now SonofAyn shows up today the very next day all full of hubris and bluster, though, if I'm right about him, he has toned himself down a bit.
                      Newbies usually don't come into The Gulch with such a great big KABOOM!
                      Prisons are filled with con artists and I worked maximum security for 21 years and have a full retirement.
                      Most corrections officer don't get that far. Most quit, fewer get fired and even fewer leave in handcuffs for being corrupted on the average of one every two years.
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                      • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
                        I looked at the two pages where you suggested and have two observations.

                        First, I don't think the inflammatory comments were intended as serious, rather a deliberate reaction mimicking the ongoing stream of attacks, which served to reveal the nature of the posters by bringing them out more in increasing intensity. In other words they were played and it worked, exposing further what is going on here.

                        Second, whoever he is he wasn't hiding the duplicate user logins. He openly said he was doing that to defend himself and was surprised that someone didn't realize it.

                        It isn't something I would do and don't recommend it. It appears to be an unfortunate consequence of the increasing hostility here in which someone has lost all respect, toying with the perpetrators to further expose them, not a serious con.

                        The moderator removed both, as he had to given the guidelines. Missing from that action was the rest of them who were not removed.

                        As for SonofAyn, I don't know who he is, but hope it leads one way or another to more serious discussion here about Ayn Rand rather than the nonsense we have been seeing on what is supposed to be an Ayn Rand forum. It has become not just nonsense for an Ayn Rand forum, but uncivilized outbursts of seething resentment not appropriate anywhere.
                        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by  $  25n56il4 2 weeks ago
            You should have seen why he did it!
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
              There is no "why he did it" excuse for Dobrien's personal attacks, either that one or all the rest.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by  $  25n56il4 2 weeks ago
                I'm sorry you are unhappy.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
                  I am not "unhappy". I judge his personal attacks for what they are.
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by  $  Dobrien 2 weeks ago
                    Of course you JUDGE no surprise!
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
                      Reason requires judging. Your snide personal attacks are not exempt.
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                      • Posted by  $  nickursis 2 weeks ago
                        And here is the whole problem: You have set yourself up as Judge. EVERY post you make is a snide, arrogant condemnation, with a just less than foul insult, and arrogant assertion that YOU are the right one and EVERYONE else is wrong. You are a perfect liberal shill. You do EXACTLY what Pelosi, Schumer and Occasionally Uses Cortex do: Pontificate, blowhard and condemn with no facts, just a huge mumbo jumbo of rarely used words and statements, and then act as a pseudo intellectual. You have no manners, no common courtesies. You are no Objectivist, all you are is a pawn, who just is used to excoriate others positions. You offer no actual evidence. When was the last time YOU posted a real life Political example of anything good? You don't. You exist as the arbiter of Objectivism and contaminate most discussions with your negativity. I have tried to engage you in polite discourse, and you refuse to be a good person.
                        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                        • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
                          Every individual judges for himself. Reason requires judging. That is not a "problem". The forum owners judge posts in accordance with their own guidelines and should be acting accordingly.

                          That whole comment you just posted is filled with gratuitous personal attacks and insults. That is all it is. It does not belong here.

                          It is not difficult for anyone to judge that your leading post in a discussion on science dismissing educated knowledge as "personal dogma" was a presumptuous, inappropriate personal attack. It was even less difficult to judge your increasing personal attacks as worse, including this one. It isn't discussion you want. You don't want to be judged for what you say and cannot tolerate rational explanation contradicting you. Being a "good person" does not mean pandering to your insults.
                          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • -1
          Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
          This post is itself a misrepresentation and a smear. Dobrien's posts are notorious for personal attacks on those who reject his opinions, as if no one has a right to counter what is promoted on a public forum and as if no reasons have been given. When promotions are rejected as contrary to the purpose of an Ayn Rand forum it is not without reason and not because they are "questions", which they are not. The personal attacks in response, substituting for discussion, most certainly do not belong here at all.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 2 weeks, 1 day ago
    There was a time when I was a lonely conservative here in this Gulch. Unlike many 'conservatives' my Constitutional approach to Conservatism aligned my ideology fairly closely with Objectivism, with some differences.

    Most of those I met here, who I would call friends are no longer frequenting the Gulch. This is a very bad thing. Those folks were more purely Objectivist than I ever was and probably ever will be. I've had the good fortune to meet several of them over the years and still speak to a handful of them practically daily via FB.

    The discussion of current events is only relevant here IF it underscores or highlights some principal that allows Objectivism to be discussed, not mantra but practical application and why that way is better than another. That's not to say a Conservative or (I cringe to say) a liberal viewpoint shouldn't be added,defended and/or discussed heatedly, they certainly should. In is in the level of discourse the opportunity to spread understanding is offered to all.

    Unfortunately, there have those here who would refused to see the objectivist value in open discourse. They chose to close their minds to anything other than their mantra, they get nasty and belligerent, they belittle and in doing so they chase people away. c'est la vie.

    What missing? The Objectivist core.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
      That certainly does happen, but what kind of "mantra" and "closed minds" are you referring to? The "Objectivist core" certainly is missing from this forum, in part because so many have no interest in or understanding of what it is.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 2 weeks ago
        It been ages since I've seen a post from you, with good reason. I'm not sure who dinked with the settings but maybe something has changed.

        Closed minded. Those who refuse to hear anything but what they elect to believe. You would say I am closed minded. Yet, I am here, and came here, around Objectivists to discuss the similarities of my Conservatism and the philosophy of Rand. Those conversations, years ago when this site was populated primarily by heavy hitter Objectivists, we're heated and, most often than not respectful. I'm still here. I'm still respectful. I still speak my mind and argue my points without berating people.

        The closed mind spouts chapter and verse (Biblical or Rand makes no difference in this context) expecting that to justify a position and anticipating it as a trump card to shut down the discussion. The closed minded cannot, or perhaps stubbornly refuses to, see the reasoning of the other side of the argument because it doesn't align with that narrow view of how things 'should' be.

        It for this very reason you've been the only person I've ignored in the 7 or so years I've been here.

        (I didn't take the point)
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
          Your vicious personal attacks on me when you first pronounced that you refused to read what I have written were the result of your intolerance towards explanations of the right of abortion contrary to your religion. It was not "for good reason". That is 'closed minded". It was not "respectful".

          No one here "spouts chapter and verse" of Ayn Rand and the explanations and arguments here are not "trump cards" and not "narow minded". Your continued snide smears and insults are not "respectful", as you just demonstrated.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 2 weeks ago
            I stopped reading you when you moved from content to vacuous personal attacks.

            An insult? Drawing a parallel between two things I've witnessed is insulting? lol
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
              There were no "vacuous personal attacks" in my post. Your posts have a history here that you are not acknowledging. Your post again illustrated your own snide personal attacks and misrepresentations. Rejecting personal attacks for what they are is not "vacuous personal attacks".
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  2 weeks ago
    In looking over this post (original and all replys and comments) I notice the ewv and SonofAyn seem to be receiving markdowns to 0 or even lower. Why?
    I don’t necessarily agree with their posts put they do not seen totally out of line or particularly offensive. Am I missing an undercurrent in other posts and comment chains that are needed for full understanding of the connotative meanings of some of the comments and replies? If this is the case perhaps reference should be made to the post if it is still available(i.e. not hidden or deleted). I am just trying to understand what has happendd to this community. I have been a member for over 5 years and have not seen this level of animosity displayed ever.
    I have to ask: What the hell is wrong with you people? The discussions used to be about news events, Objectivism and the philosophy of Ayn Rand and its applications especially via Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. How I almost never see either mentioned. I do see ad hominim attacks flowing and cascading through multiple posts and comments.
    Enough is enough. Grow up people.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
      Our posts here aren't out of line or offensive at all. The systematic 'downvoting' targeting by author while attacking Ayn Rand illustrates the point of your original post opening this thread. Their own posts on this thread smearing the people they oppose -- in the name of supporting "discussion" -- provide all the background comment chains you need for an understanding of what is going on.

      There aren't many of them engaging in that behavior -- a couple of 'votes' displayed have little meaning, but even worse is that there isn't much left on this forum countering it.

      The personal animosity is not new, it has erupted here in the past and has been a constant undercurrent, but has become more intense recently as the emotional outbursts grow and feed on themselves.

      Despite being attracted to some aspects of Ayn Rand they did not pursue the philosophy that made her work possible the way supporters in the past have. In spite of supporting some aspects of political freedom, they don't like Ayn Rand's views contradicting anti-individualist conservative bandwagons and internet fads they are attracted to, don't tolerate being intellectually challenged, do not tolerate straightforward principled explanation, defense and application of Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason, and reveal a seething, festering personal resentment. They don't know what objectivity means and do not want to be judged.

      They have become increasingly militant and defiantly anti-intellectual -- even resenting that their targets know too much, smeared as "thinking we know everything". The militancy now copies the tactics of Saul Alinsky in the form of the internet feuding and targeting that can be found almost everywhere now from political and ideological factions across the board.

      I think you said a few times that you come from a communist country and know what real oppression is. It must be especially disconcerting to you to see here such intense ugly emotional eruption over such existentially harmless intellectual challenge.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by Lucky 2 weeks ago
      mminnick thanks for making the point.

      There is a rule that institutions, even those with objectives ranging from libertarian to conservative, eventually get taken over by statist collectivists.
      After a good run this site is following that rule.

      We see it when a post recommending the non-fiction works of Ayn Rand gets down-voted. The crusaders are stomping in with bad language, fallacious argument, rudeness, excess apostrophes, and even bad spelling.

      The auto-down-voters target the most original and the best Objectivist thinkers. Yes one or two can be rather blunt, I am reminded of Ellis Wyatt, one of my heroes, but an Ayn Rand character would be unknown to the crusaders.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
        Many Ayn Rand forums over the decades have degenerated into intellectual zoos, which is why I generally avoided them. I don't think it was statists and collectivists which took them over so much as a kind of psychology. And like Gresham's law it drove out the good.

        One good one that did last with consistent quality was Betsy Speicher's Forum 4 Ayn Rand Fans, which was well moderated. Personal attacks were not allowed and those whose psychology and means of thinking and writing were not appropriate to the purpose of the forum were politely led to go elsewhere to a place more appropriate for them. Yet there was plenty of civilized intellectual controversy and creativity over a wide range of subjects. It no longer exists only because Betsy no longer wanted to run it, which took a lot of time and effort, and her husband Stephen was no longer with us. But it is possible. There is no 'rule' preventing it, only the toleration of irrational behavior.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  25n56il4 2 weeks ago
    If the comments of one person can upset an entire community, then you have a problem. Ask why did that person strive to create disharmony? Did he/she accomplish his/her goal?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
      The comments of one person do not "upset an entire community", nor would that necessarily be the source of the problem, nor is the goal necessarily to "create disharmony". It is true, however, that there are such militants here on a crusade, and they aren't here to support Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  25n56il4 2 weeks, 1 day ago
    Some people get almost hysterical about politics! I can't do that. I spent too many years in D.C. and oftentimes I couldn't tell a Democrat from a Republican. Conservative vs Liberal, yes! Mostly nice people, but some real stickers.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  nickursis 2 weeks ago
      N, that has been part of the system all along. In WW2 the Germans would take allied planes and fly them into allied formations, to report all their moves, altitude etc, so they could be shot down, It took several of these before anyone caught on. Exact same thing. That is WHY you DO need to care about politics, they count on all the individualists to give up in disgust and then go about their own business, and then when they figure out they now own it all, try to stop it. Kalifornia, New York, DC are all examples. Once they have a supermajority, it is just a dictatorship by the mob and you are doomed to a violent revolution. Venezuela.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  qhrjk 2 weeks, 1 day ago
    I haven't been here long, but I haven't felt the need to post or reply to many things because I've stopped caring about politics. Well, I still think politics is important... but I don't think some politicians should be given the light of day even if it's to laugh at them. Perhaps there should be more engaging posts regarding philosophy, books, music, etc. Especially posts that connect other sources to politics? Such as connecting economic theory to a news article- rather than just linking one. I'm really here to learn- but without having any posts that constructively criticize certain ideas or rationally debate about NEW ideas... it's all the same. I would love to see a debate like: "Camus vs. Rand" or something of the matter. Of course this is all my personal opinion, but perhaps someone else feels the same way. I want to be exposed to new things in realms of art, history, philosophy, religion, etc. How exciting would that be!
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 2 weeks, 1 day ago
      Politics is important not to discuss. It offers opportunity to gauge where society is, where its going and how it can be influenced to make the nation (world) a better place. Since we all live in this same world, the influence of Objectivism or the threats to individual liberty need be recognized and worked against whenever possible. I think to ignore such a highly social subject, head in sand if you will, is to allow a noose to be weaved around ones neck without lifting a finger to prevent t.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  qhrjk 2 weeks, 1 day ago
        I don't believe anyone should ignore politics. I think there should be a larger and deeper variety of content on the gulch. I merely said that personally I don't find politics interesting. This is mainly because I don't know enough about economics and other fields of study involved in politics to have a well-rounded view. Along with this, I find many political posts on here pretty similar. Majority of the people on here enjoy politics and they are/should be free to discuss what they want. I'm simply saying the site might be a bit livelier with more varied posts. Communication is a difficult thing nowadays.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 2 weeks, 1 day ago
          Which is exactly why I said what I did, talked about to present and explore the concepts as it related to Objectivism. In this way, understanding and relevance is spread and confusion is marginalized.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  nickursis 2 weeks ago
        Right on the mark AJ, politics is a tool they use to enslave any Objectivist person, they cannot stand to be near an individual, because politics is one of two sides, an individualist supporting society or a state controlled on, anything else is just a blend, usually by the state run side, made to look like the individualist supporters (aka RINO). I submit John McCain and Paul Ryan as examples. They will enslave and control, so as to loot at will. See every democrat controlled place in the country, high taxes, laws that control individuals, and imposed "free sh@t" that others have to pay for. Not much different from Atlas Shrugged, now, is it? Some oned who disagrees need to show me one democrat controlled entity where individuals are respected and there is no "free sh@t" to buy others into it.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
      There is a lot to learn that is very interesting in Ayn Rand's nonfiction. Even when discussing politics, she had a unique, philosophical approach making her work timeless.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
        The hit and run 'downvoter' illustrates what mminnick is talking about. How would the hit and runners like to explain downvoting admiration for and recommending Ayn Rand's nonfiction?
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by CircuitGuy 2 weeks, 1 day ago
    It's unfortunate b/c I think people interested in Ayn Rand should communicate with one another and make known the virtues of reason and selfishness (in the Rand sense of the word). I say that b/c technology is providing an age of unbelievable plenty. It feels like a crossroads where the technology could lead down a path of people controlling one another or giving people the power to control their own lives and live freer than ever before. I say "feels" b/c I suspect all epochs feel like a crossroads.

    So for me it's worth filtering out the conspiracy theories and general mean-spiritedness to find the discussion about how precious and powerful are free people using reason to live their dreams.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  nickursis 2 weeks, 1 day ago
      And there is your answer mminnick: "So for me it's worth filtering out the conspiracy theories and general mean-spiritedness to find the discussion about how precious and powerful are free people using reason to live their dreams. " Peopel who have promted themselves to the level of our liberal lords and masters, to be able to determine YOUR post is a conspiracy theory, but MY post is truth, and then proceed to have an entire series of rants about how they know all, see all and you know nothing (even when this is a discussion of fusion energy among physicists)because they know everything. When somebody posts a thread, and people respond like that, they attack the validity of the persons premise and data not with facts, but with the infamous "everybody knows fusion is impossible you are just pandering a conspiracy theory and don't know what you are talking about" . That says nothing about the post or the subject but denigrates what the thread is about, the idea of debate and discussion, and the freedom to discuss without having to endure a blast of insults and blind denial of facts and data. Some people have appointed themselves the "I know Ayn Rand" priests and will tell you why you are not being Ayn Randy enough, or are violating some secret Ayn Rand laws, etc. Most people came here because they like real discussion, no one to impose their will on them, and do not want to bow to anyone they do not want to bow too. So, I would propose we ban the use of the term "conspiracy theory" because all that is is a fancy label for something they do not want to discuss, even if you have facts and data to back it up.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  Solver 2 weeks, 1 day ago
        Sorry I could only give a +1
        We see a world wide progression in this type of moral superior belief. And many of these morally superior individuals actively suppress their “inferiors” from speaking or being heard.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  exceller 2 weeks, 1 day ago
        Thank you Nick, you spoke the truth.

        Unfortunately, the Gulch has been infiltrated by several posters who behave exactly as you described, no doubt bringing the "accepted norm" of liberals to attack anyone and anything that falls outside of their dogma.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • -2
          Posted by ewv 2 weeks, 1 day ago
          This forum has not been "infiltrated" by anyone fitting the description of his misrepresentation, which is a smear, as is your own "no doubt bringing the 'accepted norm' of liberals to attack anyone and anything that falls outside of their dogma."
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by ewv 2 weeks, 1 day ago
        You are posting on a public forum, subject to response to what you say. When someone promotes conspiracy theories as the cause of the course of the culture he should expect to be challenged, especially on an Ayn Rand forum. This is not the John Birch Society.

        Rejection of the arbitrary is not "but MY post is truth, and then proceed to have an entire series of rants about how they know all, see all and you know nothing". Your characterization is misrepresentation. So is your "Some people have appointed themselves the 'I know Ayn Rand' priests and will tell you why you are not being Ayn Randy enough, or are violating some secret Ayn Rand laws, etc", which is a dishonest smear.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by CircuitGuy 2 weeks ago
        "our liberal lords and masters, to be able to determine YOUR post is a conspiracy theory, but MY post is truth,"
        I respectfully but categorically disagree. Not all claims are equal. There is nothing wrong with dismissing extraordinary claims in the absence of extraordinary evidence. Claims like the idea that the ancient Greek story of Atlantis is related to aliens under the Bermuda Triangle should be dismissed out of hand. It's a straw man to equate dismissing bizarre conspiracy theories with being an overlord acting as an arbiter of all truth.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by ewv 2 weeks ago
          Likewise for the Kavanaugh hearings and Google claimed to be a CIA Plot, the German Green movement claimed to have been "installed" by Rockefeller, and several other such pronouncements made here.

          But his statement characterizing posts on this forum as "Peopel who have promted themselves to the level of our liberal lords and masters, to be able to determine YOUR post is a conspiracy theory, but MY post is truth, and then proceed to have an entire series of rants about how they know all, see all and you know nothing" is a gross smear with no basis and deserves no respect. Categorical disagreement with it is not enough.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 2 weeks, 1 day ago
    I think the world outside and the world inside the Gulch or any two worlds will always contain the dichotomy of the Free thinker/investigator, the curious and the rigid compartmentalized specialized field of study. We should be able to appreciate both but they frequently butt heads.

    Specialized studies require an immense amount of compartmentalized information and rarely if ever integrated with other areas of study.

    The free thinker/curious person can appreciate what the specialist have done but is unbound by that compartment and can freely see the connections, consequences and similarities of many fields of study. This is where real innovation comes from.

    You can see that both views and abilities are needed for true progress, innovation and a successful civilization.

    That is what gives mankind or any conscious entity, the ability to attain the impossible.

    And yes, I am afraid that there Are those that do not want us to attain what they consider the impossible.

    This is certainly a time of revelation, the exposing of lies, deceptions, events labeled as conspiracies, and the discarding of long held theories.

    So, a new world is upon us as the old world painfully withers away...I would expect a tassel here and there to ensue in the process.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo