Very good points about how "the best case" people get confused about capitalism. And I couldn't agree with you more: we have to show the positives especially the moral positives of capitalism to change minds, to engage their sense of self, their values - show them how honorable they feel by earning money and taking care of themselves. Help them understand that this is what capitalism is about.

Nice strategy - show them the cash value of their ideas.

Thank you so much!

I love your statement: " socialism treats people as if they're helpless. Capitalism gives each individual the opportunity to have the pride and honor of taking care of themselves." It is the most concise and descriptive view of the difference between socialism and Capitalism I have ever encountered. Thank you. I've added it to my (short) list of all time favorite quotes.

Well, people talk socialist for a variety of reasons, so the trick is to figure out who might be actually thinking about the issues, right? And there are some. I know a number of leftists who became classical liberals (capitalists). Dave Rubin is an interesting case, if you care to look into him.

But I think one of the most important things for us to do is offer people an alternative vision. And what i mean by that is to point out how condescending and belittling socialism is (as well as devastating and unfair to the poor and powerless, in the long run - if that's the person's concern).

What I mean by that is that socialism treats people as if they're helpless. Capitalism gives each individual the opportunity to have the pride and honor of taking care of themselves.

On another thread, someone mentioned "self-reliance" - and I think that's a key. To talk about all the benefits of self-reliance; how good a person feels about themselves (this counters the postmodernist story about how they don't feel "equal").

If you have a chance, take a look at one of the short, popular novel from the early 20th century by Henry Kitchell Webster. His stories embody the "can-do" proudly self-reliant spirit of the time. I think we have to "sell" that, but in an updated form, of course. "The Thoroughbred" is a really short one in this list. http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/...

Thank you all for your comments.

It began and progressed via the gov school system, and there it must be changed. Kids need to be free findoctrination and faux global warming (Gorbachev's gift). Instead, children must learn to think as individuals, exposed to philosophy, and required to read "Anthem" by Ayn Rand, which would soon open their es. In college, they must learn to discuss in open debate, no safe spaces, just rational exchanges, and if they can read enough, give them "Atlas Shrugged."

As Ayn Rand advised," If any victory is possible only reason can win it."

It is difficult, partly because everyone naturally supports the underdog, and partly because the whole of media is drunken in joy of a readily controllable lynch mob to aim as they choose. So much power just there for the manipulative.

One on one, many arguments work:
Do you know the government is about one-third the efficiency of private industry in any service?
Why is wealth inequity an issue?
Where is an example of people taking from the rich and improving the status of the majority?
If you feel so strongly the the rich as oppressors, why don’t you give all your money to people in Africa? There is real poverty there, not like the US. Do you agree we should normalize...of course that means internationally, and you are the rich...

Well written!

In my encounters with socialists, I've found individuals that are intoxicated by envy of those that both have and exercise superior talents and skills with remarkable results. Instead of owning their envy, they ascribe the success of others to luck, inheritance or theft. Socialism will provide the cure to these inequities through a morally just process of redistribution. Additionally, socialism will work out the details for the most efficient allocation of resources, including human resources. When I ask the socialist what they will be doing in ten years, given a full shift to a socialist state, the socialist replies with great detail about how they will be working for the betterment of society and the environment. It is at this time that I must remind them that, they will Not have the freedom to do what they will, no matter how enlightened and supposedly devoid of self-interest. No. They will be doing precisely what the State has dictated - whether that be working in the fields (absent carbon-pollution-generating farm machinery), changing bed pans in a sick ward or serving in the capacity of a pair of "make work" hands along some assembly line in the manufacture of goods directed for production by the State. Socialists are essentially ignorant, conceited, delusional, dangerous children.

To those who support the socialist agenda. 1. You will not be a member of the ruling class. 2. Today, you are in line with the message. Tomorrow, you will be the target.

Abaco. The first time that I read The Communist Manifesto, I couldn’t grasp how a culture could survive without the bourgeoisie. I have grasped, over the years, that it can not!

You can't change a mind ingrained with propaganda once they believe by talking or appealing to reason. You can only change their mind by changing their EXPERIENCE.

Sign up those who like Socialism for a Socialist experiment. Everything is shared, all are fed equally, housed equally, everyone must do equal WORK (Work? I thought you didn't have to work in socialism. That will be their First clue to enlightenment). They will run everything themselves. Who will cook? Who will drive, who will plow and raise crops, Who will do maintenance? Who will trade crops for other goods like electricity. Let them experience the fights and the reality that people are unequal and do unequal amounts of work and are unequally talented. Let them experience the reality of the tragedy of the Commons.

Then they will proselytize the evils of Socialism. If they succeed then let's see how they did it and copy it for those who want to live like socialists.

Oh wait Israel already did this experiment with the Kibbutz and Moshav.

Socialism can work with the right small group or in a Family. There are some rare cases. lol

Socialism doesn't scale up.

I highly recommend "Big Agenda' by David Horowitz. I just finished it and it was not what I expected at all. It is a comprehensive and revealing characterization of what the "progressive" socialist left is in current times. And what to do about it.

The problem is that you have to be able to get people to listen and use their brains - to actually think. It's very easy to control lazy people and manipulate them with emotion. "Free Stuff" is an emotional appeal - and highly effective to those who do not understand that there is no such thing as free anything. When you buy into socialism you buy into slavery - high taxes and government control.

Socialism is a method to achieve a goal. Its NOT the problem.

The real issue is that a person becomes locked into a desire to be relieved of their own negative emotions. They dont understand the nature of emotions, and the role their thinking plays in formulating them. They act as if emotions are just THERE and are independent of anything they can do themselves.
. They are driven and controlled by emotions, and long for someone or soemthing to take care of their emotions and make them feel good. They dont know that they can do that themselves !

Socialism (and really any collectivist system) was invented as a way to fool people into believing a system can protect them. The hope that their emotional state can be guaranteed somehow becomes all encompassing. One world where a government runs things, takes in all refugees and the downtrodden, guaranteed income and health care, where eveyone is on the same page and individual emotional well being is assured. Pretty hard thing to sell against, which is why we have lost so far.

I say this is why the abject failures of socialism, communism, and the like are simply dismissed as "it wasnt done right this time...." That way the HOPE continues unabated the it "could" work next time.

If indeed my proposition is true, we will never get rid of socialism by attacking it.

The real issue is the desire to free oneself from any sort of emotional pain, without understanding where it comes from and how to deal with it. This is only done through watching parents and others deal with their emotions. If emotions seem totally overwhelming when very young, I suppose you grow up thinking thats the way it is.

Socialism is promoted as an easy escape from the simple realities of life (which are really NOT that difficult to deal with, especially compared with the horrors socialism brings with it).

All we can do now is
1) to create a "gulch" of sorts where people just deal with life and their feelings correctly, and let the socialists see how well it works (providing they dont destroy it out of fear).

2) Teach our children that individual responsibility actually works and they can be happy on their own without someone else running their lives.

I always encourage the fans of socialism to give as much to their favorite causes as they can afford, just don't sign me up as the slave to their passions. When I run into retired fans of socialism, I encourage them to get one or more part time jobs and give it all to charity rather than recreating slavery. I also remind them that they will be paying for any of their social re-engineering projects anyway so why not cut out the middleman.
Only when they realize that they are really selling themselves down the same river will they start to question their faulty logic.

This is the question for the ages and not to be negative the horse is out of the barn. Our Marxist friends have been working a 60 year plan , take over the schools at all levels, media, courts , the government employees ( deep state), and most of the politicians.
To now start wondering what magic words will flip the logic circuit back on in the mob is denial.

The mob wants free stuff, your stuff and has no compunctions about pesky moral issues like stealing it or practical matters like the free stuff will run out.

There is a good book that tells this story called Atlas Shrugs and it doesn't end well

I think that we have to fight the message that capitalism has failed and that profit is bad. Capitalism has been stunningly successful at creating the healthiest, most prosperous society in the history of the planet.

I just keep beating them over the head with the truth.

They think they are voting for social media.

How do we combat socialism motivated by an anger or desire to "get people"?
The only answer is reason. The socialist probably won't renounce his beliefs on the spot. At best you give him food for thought that he will cogitate and reevaluate his thoughts in the future.

Don't focus primarily on rejecting socialism and schadenfreude but rather on the alternatives of reason, helping people in honest dealings, and realizing your dreams.

In the worst case, someone hurt him, and he's looking for any means to get back at people. I know I can't fix that. I just avoid them.

In the best case, someone in the socialists' past was dishonest, maybe cheating customers, stealing, threatening people, or whatever, and the dishonest person said he was simply following the rules of capitalism-- you look out for number one and give no concern for fair dealings, caveat emptor. It's easy to imagine an honest person hearing this sophistry at a young age and thinking, "if that's what capitalism is all about, sign me up for the opposite of it: socialism". This person might easily change his mind if he got new facts.

Now that you mention it, it seems funny that it's a crime for someone in power to take advantage of a subordinate but it okay for schools to do the same to students. Not that either should be protected. Everyone should be responsible for their own actions but just an observation.

Government "Can't" do anything except exert initiatory force, it can't run business, it can't distribute goods, it has NEVER created values that have never existed before...everything stagnates and the poor, the middle classes and those unconnected to the politically psychopathic get the shaft. You are just a thing and expendable at their whims and wills...and as we have said so many times...eventually runs out of everyone else's money.