The premier Objectivist publication reminds us about Donald and Kim

Posted by Zero 5 years, 11 months ago to Politics
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As this is nominally an OBJ house, a reminder of the OBJ worldview might be in order.

There is a reason I'm an Objectivist.
And it is practical to be an Idealist


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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    John Flynn was not a "narcissist, a fascist and a liar" and you were not misquoted. I said that Flynn's book opposing fascism is not "fake weirdness from the left/progressives". You wrote, "There are indeed some weird stories about Churchill, I reckon all fake. Now, that weirdness is from the left/progressives", and you subsequently added, "But choosing clarity over obfuscation, John T. Flynn was an narcissist, a fascist and a liar. Over and out." That is neither "clarity" nor "civility" and is a grotesque falsehood about Flynn.

    John Flynn was a respected journalist and author who opposed the New Deal, Roosevelt, and both fascism and communism. Ayn Rand recommended the 1956 edition of his 1948 book The Roosevelt Myth in her Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, and corresponded with him in the 1940s, some of which is included in The Letters of Ayn Rand. Leonard Peikoff referenced Flynn in his Ominous Parallels.

    The first three links I provided were to Flynn's book, As We Go Marching, which opposed and warned against the rise of fascism in the US folllowing Italy and Germany, and from which I quoted three paragraphs on Churchill's admiration for Mussolini from the 1920s to 1940. One link was to amazon and the other two were to pdf and epub downloads of that book which are provided at no cost by the Mises Institute.

    The fourth link https://mises.org/profile/john-t-flynn was to the Mises Institute short biographical profile of Flynn -- not "gush", as forum readers can see for themselves. It includes in a brief description of his book against fascism:

    "The growth of a huge bureaucratic apparatus, the partnership of government and business, social welfare schemes, huge public debts, and the need to resolve economic problems by creating a permanent war economy — all of these phenomena had become dominant first in Italy, then in Germany, and then in the United States under the New Deal. The theme of the book is that while the US was fighting fascism in Europe, the seeds of that doctrine had already been planted at home; the war itself would accelerate their growth."

    As Ayn Rand observed herself, in addition to the general growth of statism, that every war this country has gotten into has resulted in more controls and less freedom after the war than before. John Flynn, like Ayn Rand, was not a "narcissist, a fascist and a liar".
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  • -1
    Posted by Lucky 5 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Wording within quote marks purporting to be a quote from my post above is not.
    The links are to writings of John T. Flynn or to a gush on Flynn published by Mises Institute.
    A reply to this is a challenge, not on content but to maintain civility.
    But choosing clarity over obfuscation, John T. Flynn was an narcissist, a fascist and a liar.
    Over and out.
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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "From ... to ..." means over a range including.

    From John T. Flynn's 1944 As We Go Marching: A Biting Indictment of the Coming of Domestic Fascism in America

    "It was after the vulgar brutalities of the march to power, after newspapers had been burned and editors beaten, political clubrooms sacked, after the sacred cudgel by God's grace had done its holy violence on its enemies and others had been gorged with castor oil, after thousands had been thrown into concentration camps and countless other brave men had been driven from their country, after Matteoti had been assassinated and Mussolini had proclaimed that democracy was 'a dirty rag to be crushed under foot,' that Winston Churchill, in January 1927, wrote to him, saying: "If I had been an Italian I am sure I would have been entirely with you from the beginning to the end of your victorious struggle against the bestial appetites and passions of Leninism.' He assured the Duce that were he an Italian he would 'don the Fascist black shirt.' And a year later, in Collier's Magazine, he wrote extolling Mussolini above Washington and Cromwell.

    "Does this mean that Churchill approves of beating and suppressions? Hardly. Its significance lies in the revelation of the extent to which evil deeds will be excused or tolerated or even defended when some cherished public or religious or social crusade is the excuse. Man's capacity for cruelty—even the good man's capacity for cruelty—in the prosecution of a spiritual crusade is a phenomenon to affright the soul." p.70

    "I recall these testimonials here merely because of their bearing on American and British opinion upon what happened in Italy. We cannot count on all good people in America rejecting fascist ideas. To many the pursuit of the hated Red justified the elements of violence in the episode. To others the imperious need of meeting the challenge of labor justified the cudgels. Mussolini was all right as long as he played along with the democratic powers. 'I do not deny,' said Mr. Churchill as late as December 1940, in a speech in the House, 'that he is a very great man. But he became a criminal when he attacked England'. Mussolini's crime lay not in all the oppressions he had committed upon his own people, not in his trampling down of liberty in Italy, in attacking Ethiopia or Spain, but in 'attacking England.' It is precisely in this tolerance of ordinarily decent people for the performances of such a man that the terrible menace of fascism lies for all peoples." p. 73

    https://www.amazon.com/As-We-Go-March...
    pdf: https://mises-media.s3.amazonaws.com/...
    epub: https://mises-media.s3.amazonaws.com/...

    It isn't "fake weirdness from the left/progressives". Flynn was a classical liberal known for his opposition to Roosevelt in his 1948 The Roosevelt Myth and for his leadership role in the opposition to America entering WWII for years before Pearl Harbor. https://mises.org/profile/john-t-flynn

    Fascism was philosophically attractive in Britain and America for the same reasons it was in Germany and Italy, as described by Leonard Peikoff's The Ominous Parallels for Germany.
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  • Posted by Lucky 5 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If 'From' means 'Includes' then No.
    From the mid-thirties Churchill, outside government, was a solitary public voice urging re-armament and correctly assessing the new German leadership.
    There are indeed some weird stories about Churchill, I reckon all fake.
    Now, that weirdness is from the left/progressives.
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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is not the FBI's job to investigate and try to interfere with presidential candidates in the name of "Russian activities in America". The Trump campaign was not "cozy with those same Russians".
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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Who on the American right thinks that Hitler "was almost OK"? In the 1930s politicians from Churchill to the New Deal admired the fascists in Germany and Italy.
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  • Posted by Lucky 5 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes on the first point. They appeared to be well fed so how was it done?
    The popular myth is that efficient central planning and patriotism maintained production. Evidence is now coming out on the lines MM stated. It was juggling the books to cover running down capital.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 5 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry, but -1 for not thinking this through. Read the introductory essay to For the New Intellectual. The fallacy you endorse is the "muscle mystic." If the people of Germany 1933-1940 were "eating well" it was not because of Hitler's policies, but because the last sane man, Hjalmar Schacht, was juggling the national accounting and bookkeeping as the Nazis abandoned productivity and embraced production for destruction.

    The muscle mystics of the American rightwing think that Hitler was almost OK, if only he had done a couple of things differently... Leftwing socialists say the same thing about the Russian communists.

    A consistent national policy in foreign affairs is a complicated problem. It begins with a rational-real foundation that recognizes objective reality. Arguing politics in a vacuum is unproductive. Among the ways to analyze the world stage is to reduce it to Crusoe Concepts. If you had a neighbor like Kim Jong Un or Adolph Hitler, how would you relate to them? And before you answer... If you filled your car at a gas station and went inside to pay and saw a picture of Jesus behind the counter, would you shop there again? Why or why not?
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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Lending moral support, let alone refraining from endodrsing statists, is not being a global policeman.

    Neither is preventing a nuclear attack from the "Rocket Man" dictator, who has become closer to the ability to carry out his threats. Pandering to him, appeasing him, and helping him to "become better" with economic help, do nothing to stop him. That is true for us as well as South Korea, China, Russia, and the rest of them. If North Korea blows up the Korean peninsula or more, it would be it's responsibility, along with those who appeased it, but the US would be blamed for it, especially from American progressives and ideological ostriches and appeasers.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thank you for that. I've read Gulchers argue here on this board that the USA can't be the global police.
    Appears Trump is putting America first and that of allies who have had to endure "Rocket Man" shooting missiles over their heads.
    Shall we free China and North Korea like we freed Hitler's Europe? Don't think that will work out well. .
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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Apparently the idea of a moral denunciation of the communist dictatorship instead of praising it is new to you.
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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A refusal endorse an evil dictatorship is not "the enemy of the good" and refusal to engage in such pandering does not risk nuclear war. North Korea's nuclear weapon development is the threat, which is not removed by repeated trashing of western intelligence agencies. Nixon endorsed the Chinese dictators; Reagan continued to denounce the Soviets. Helping the Soviet Union economically, such as providing it with wheat, only prolonged the collapse. Reagan constantly pressured the Soviet Union, leading to its collapse; he did not try to make it "better" under the communist dictatorship. The people in the Soviet Union already knew that the west was vastly superior and did not need "exposure" through economic propping up of the regime to know that. Sanctions against Cuba, North Korea and Iran did help, but were not enough. Saying that "North Korea wouldn’t be the Objectivist ideal" and "neither is the US" in the same sentence is worse than odd.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Okay, Trump had already patted Kim on the head without physically doing so.
    Haven't read The Art Of The Deal but it's my guess Trump may be used to flattering people he thinks he can make a deal with~also being quite capable of walking out when he can't make a deal he likes..
    Yes, gushing insincere flattery is going too far with a murdering dictator. .
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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That implies patting him on the head would have even more significance than what he said. It would have that only to the anti-conceptual mentality that doesn't understand what he already did.
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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The verbal endorsement on a world stage is much more than patting him on the head.
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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ben Bayer at ARI posted an article on this topic a few days before Craig Biddle's: "Trump-Kim Summit Betrays Victims of Dictatorship", June 13, 2018 http://newideal.aynrand.org/trump-kim... It refers to the position explicitly taken by Ayn Rand on Nixon going to China in the 1970s: Ayn Rand, “The Shanghai Gesture,” The Ayn Rand Letter, March 27, 1972.

    Trump is speaking to the world to sell his presidency and his 'deal'. We don't know what he is saying in private to North Korea, or to China -- which has not yet been leaked -- and we don't know what he is willing to give away in his deal, including how much he would protect the dictatorship against his victims.

    Sometimes Trump's 'deals' are at least a temporary practical improvement and sometimes they are worse, but he never does anything out of support for the rights of the individual and he never denounces collectivism.

    Trump does not have to publicly sanction and lie about evil. When a political leader publicly embraces things that are so horrible that you have to project that he really doesn't mean it, when he is such an unprincipled Pragmatist that you have to conclude that nothing he says has any meaning at all, when his statements are so bad that you have to imagine that he must secretly mean something else in some unknown clever scheme, then we are in real trouble.

    Yet refusing to believe what politicians say is all too common. It occurs over and over with government policies whose effects are too horrible to contemplate so people don't believe it's coming and we will get by "somehow" and everything will be all right, "somehow" -- despite what it sounds like. All it shows is that Americans have a better sense of life than the politicians and are naive to the possibility and reality of evil -- and to the danger of Pragmatism.
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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Trump does not have to go out of his way to praise and lie about evil.

    His "putting America first" has always been a collectivist nationalism, oblivious to principles and the rights of the individual, and often sacrificing people under his own statism.
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  • Posted by ewv 5 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Trump is a worse Pragmatist than Nixon was. He has no regard for principles and the meaning of words. He is in constant salesman mode promoting the deal of the moment without regard for objectivity, honesty and truth. This is not 'isolated events within a negotiating process', it is the way he thinks and acts across the board. Trump adulators will make any excuse for it, with the same disregard for honesty and the importance of ideas and meaning of words.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    According what I recently read, hungry soldiers may loot food from peasant farms.
    Or how needs of the fittest North Korean communism works.
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