Understanding Progressives
Posted by strugatsky 6 years, 6 months ago to Politics
Today, I had accidentally gone to a meeting of Liberals/Progressives, about 20 of them, on the subject of healthcare. The topic was intentionally advertised so as to conceal its aim and I, in a state of bliss, took the bait. Disappointed at first, I ended up almost enjoying it, for this was not the typical college uneducated crowd of children (per Obamacare, childhood has now been officially defined as 0-26), but a geriatric congregation where some of the patients may have gone to real schools back then. So I stayed. What I learned was quite interesting. The presenter was a retired medical doctor, whose medical expertise I won't question (though he seemingly retired at an earlier age than most), but whose lack of understanding of economics and other subjects which he proclaimed to champion was astounding. It was like listening to a NFL player or a Hollywood star. But most interesting was the reaction of the audience, who approvingly nodded their heads to every unsubstantiated claim. Even a claim that doctor visit deductibles are evil, as, he claimed, that a $5 deductible prevents patients from seeing a doctor – regardless of the fact that these same patients spent that on cigarettes every day. I thought that I was in a middle of circus seals, only these were too weak to clasp. As the level of bull rose above my tolerance level (quickly, actually) and I began to politely challenge with facts, the audience became most uncomfortable and their leader asked me to be quiet (of course, I did not). My main take away was the amazing shallowness of these people – every attempt at analysis, delving even a little deeper, caused them pain and anguish. I have seen this before – from the teenagers going onto 30-something, but these were supposedly adults in their 60's and 70's. Had American education failed us that long ago?
Second takeaway – the Progressives actually believe that the US economy, prior to Obama, was pure capitalism! I was and remain, at a total loss how to confront such a deviation from reality. Can anyone here help?
Second takeaway – the Progressives actually believe that the US economy, prior to Obama, was pure capitalism! I was and remain, at a total loss how to confront such a deviation from reality. Can anyone here help?
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A big example was Obamacare. It is obvious what it is in the form it was rammed through Congress, as the most they could get at the time, and Obama was caught in a recording saying he intended it as a step to complete government control -- euphemistically called "single payer" since they know better than to use the "S" word now. The overt collectivist premises are all over the Democrats now in a more extreme form of admission than ever and there are many more examples from Obama.
There many more references by Obama himself to Davis' teaching.
The other segment from his book describes a very angry young man who blames the White Man and colonialism for almost all of the problems in the world, or at least around him. Is that not racism?
Had several hundred thousand Jews in Germany, along with others, been armed (and had the mentality of armed self-defense), it is not entirely clear if the Nazis would have acquired power in the late '20's and early '30's in the first place.
I have not listened to the whole thing, so maybe there's a bombshell hidden in there. It all seems pretty standard.
It feels to me like there's this whole world of politicians making absurd claims about one another, and I keep listening as if there's some hidden secret to make their claims makes sense. But it seems like there's hyperbole inflation. In addition to blaming random criminal acts on President Trump, for the first time I heard the claim he won't leave office and is planning some kind of coup. I heard that about Bush and Obama. It seems like the Internet has hastened the inflation. I should stop listening to this crap, and if we do get a president staging a coup, I won't know it until it's too late.
I agree completely. I'm not talking about people who deny the science. I'm talking about the science itself.
You can certainly calculate the value of things to humans and calculate the impact of things changing. For example, you can compare rents in similar areas that have and do not have some form of pollution. If you're considering doing something that causes that pollution, you can work out the human impact (cost to human beings, whatever we want to call it) of that act. Then you can calculate if the activity still makes sense after you make those people whole for the lost value. It's not vague. Apocalyptic hysterics is a straw man that has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion.
I hear what you're saying, but it does not sound remotely true. I don't believe in "a left" or any of that. I think you're overthinking the motivations of the citizens of a somewhat decadent empire.
I hope someone finds new models/evidence, not just because it would be favorable to humankind but also because it's good to learn new things. It could break either way; the new evidence could show human activities are more or less costly than we thought. I love the notion that you're (or someone like you) working in this field with obscure models that turn out to be right. I don't think you're saying you're a climatologist. You're saying you read some politicalized commentary outside your field and convinced yourself there's a conspiracy to suppress a discovery that almost everyone would welcome. I don't get it.
All the Jews could do in Europe was to get out while they could, as many did in the 1930s when the tyranny was still limited geographically and exits were still open. The victims who were left were not fighting with words, they were huddled in despair wondering what had happened; it was for them too late for words.
This country was made possible by the dominance of Enlightenment ideas of reason and individualism, not the repetition of countless wars over centuries. Without the dominant Enlightenment values an American Revolution against Britain would not have resulted in an improved government. If you tried it today you and five like-minded others would be squashed and that would be the end of you.
If a nation attacks us we fight back as a nation to put an end to it, requiring in the duration putting up with the deprivation of the loss of civilization with a lot of death and destruction. That is not a temporary physical restraining of a criminal within the context of civilization.
Cheering about wars in the name of punching someone in the face will not change the internal direction of this country. Have you read Leonard Peikoff's The Ominous Parallels? That will tell you a lot about the nature of the problem and the solution.
About a year ago there was a good article in the Gulch (can't find it now) explaining how CO2, which is the evil greenhouse gas, absorbs only 10% of radiant energy per mass compared to water vapor, while constituting something on the order of less than 1/2 of 1 percent of vapor, of which only 20 - 30 % are caused by human activity. Basically, you have an elephant in a china shop, but you are concerned with a butterfly turning over the dishes. If you really want to affect climate change, start combating water vapor from the oceans, seas and rivers - declare war on the clouds!
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