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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 9 months ago
    Until several other key measures of the economy (like jobs for one) go positive, I find it very difficult to believe in the bullish projections of the Wall Street crowd. I find it very hard to believe that people without jobs are buying houses.
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    • Posted by LionelHutz 9 years, 9 months ago
      They almost are! I kid you not, I just had an offer on my house fall through due to loan-to-value being not to the banks liking. Thanks to a government program (WHEDA), the prospective buyer only had $1000 of his own money in the game. He needed to come up with an additional $2000 more cash down to satisfy the bank's LTV requirement. He couldn't do it. He's not without a job, but this tells me the banks are right back to making 97%+ mortgages to people that have no business making offers to purchase >$100K property.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 9 months ago
        WHEDA shut down right after the crisis. I'm not surprised they're right back at it.

        I knew someone with a WHEDA loan. She later got married and moved into her husband's house. She was way underwater on the house with the WHEDA loan, didn't have money to pay the difference, and wanted to rent out the property. WHEDA said they would monitor the property and foreclose if she rented it. I told her I'd tell them then I'll leave a nice houseplant on the kitchen counter for them and mail them the keys if they're so keen to have a house that far underwater. Or I'd give them the option of working with me to try to make the pmt. She said since it was a gov't program they just followed the rules and would foreclose; they would not act as a normal human being or business who had lent money to someone who was trying to pay it back. The gov't program was to help owners, not landlords; they followed that rule; reason didn't come into play.
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  • Posted by Notperfect 9 years, 9 months ago
    I still see new signs replacing old ones here in MI. only because of weather related incidents. No jobs, no sales, but our borders are still safe right?
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 9 months ago
    The Housing Starts graphs shows recessions that hit RE and the recovery after each one. Residential RE was at the epicenter of the last recession, so it affected Housing Starts more than other recessions. The bubble led to excess supply, so I expect construction not to bounce up the same way it did in other recession/expansion cycles.

    Consider how the tech bust of 00-02 doesn't even show up on the Housing Starts graph. If you did a graph of how tech did in various recession, the recession of 01 would look similarly singular.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      I'm a natural born contrarian, and I think in terms of decision trees and probabilities. I am not trying to make a case for either expansion or contraction, but I know that when economists are united in calling for a strong recovery the 2nd half of the year, as they have been; when US equity indices are setting new records; and when there is a relentless barage of news articles about the "recovery"; I get interested in the contrary case. For one thing, the majority is seldom right about the future path of the economy; its view of the future is generally a linear extrapolation of the past. More meaningfully, when markets and sentiment all line up on one side, it can be extraordinarily lucrative to take the other side. It is a strategy with which a speculator has to be willing to suffer some pain, but the ultimate payout can be huge. I never try to be dogmatic about the economy and financial markets, but even the government's own statistics, like these housing numbers, are not uniformly positive, and we did, after all, print negative 1st quarter growth. I can't and won't swear the economy is heading into a recession, but the speculative stars are in perfect alignment to make that bet against the consensus. Again, it's all decisions trees, probabilities, and the payoff matrix, not unshakeable conviction.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 9 months ago
        I'm always excited to see how it unfolds. I think you're absolutely right but several years too early. People think of the recovery as they did in '97, when people still talked about the recession of '91 as if it were still happening. Many people were blaming a charistmatic center-left president in his second-term. I know this does not mean the future will unfold exactly the same.

        Your logical approach of decision trees and probabilities is more reliable than my wet finger a deja vu.
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