Chromosome 2

Posted by Seer 7 years, 3 months ago to Science
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Yesterday, I was searching the Internet for possible answers to why the mythology of the ancient Sumerians was, in one very important respect, different from the mythology of ancient Egypt.
One thing led to another, and I came across something I had never known before: Chromosome 2.
We are told that the DNA of humans and chimps are 98. something % alike; we are not told that the haploid number of chromosomes in the genus Homo is one less than in other primates.
Apparently there was a random "mutation"---and it probably occurred in more than one individual---that caused the fusion of two chromosomes, resulting in the second largest chromosome in the cell structure of hominids.
Some implications of this occurrence are:
1. It gives credence to the "cladogenesis" theory of evolution: "Cladogenesis is the process by which a species splits into two distinct species, rather than one species gradually transforming into another."--Wikipedia
2. An abnormality associated with Chromosome 2 is synesthesia: "a neurological phenomenon in which stimulation of one sensory or cognitive pathway leads to automatic, involuntary experiences in a second sensory or cognitive pathway." From here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthe...
3. Apply cladogenesis to rampant and legal abortion, and you have another reason it is illegal.


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  • Posted by 7 years, 2 months ago
    You are right. This is not the forum for me. RT is my forum.
    But I doubt enough of you will be able to read this before it disappears.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The immorality of prohibiting abortion has been explained many times on this forum without any hesitancy. The 'downvoting' of Seer's posts is most likely due to the fact that they are generally inarticulate swaggering and/or drive-by swipes that do not contribute to the discussion, typically showing no understanding of Ayn Rand.
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  • -2
    Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You will need to develop an ability to think beneath the surface. Otherwise it won't do any good.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Re: “Another problem is that of complex systems. According to evolutionary theory, the only way a complex system can happen is if it evolves over time each individual piece in turn (each taking millions of years) or if every single mutation occurred at the same time in the same organism (statistically impossible).”

    Complex systems theory explains how evolution can proceed so rapidly:

    “Complexity theory shows how, under the right conditions, orderly structures can arise spontaneously in large, initially chaotic systems. This spontaneous order provides a rich background of material for natural selection. So it is not necessary for natural selection to sculpt every detail of an organism, because many structures and patterns emerge spontaneously. For example, in a multicellular organism, cell division creates a natural hierarchical structure that provides the basis for modular organs.”
    https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-rel...

    Stuart Kaufmann’s book At Home in the Universe (1999) explains the concept clearly and much more extensively.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good question. I'm not sure even the neurologists or psychologists have a good idea of what emotions and feelings are. I used it, in the sense of my thesis: "The long childhood of mankind and the long childhood of man are mutually recapitulative."
    That is, as a child outgrows his immature thought processes, and primitive "displays" (not the emotion itself, but the lack of awareness of it) of emotion, so man has done so, himself, throughout his long childhood.

    My reference to how early humans analogized the creation of man with the creation of images by man, is an example.

    If you look closely at evolution, you will see that it is actually proof for the existence of God, not his non-existence.
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  • -1
    Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago
    Doby and blarman, I wonder if you even believe in the intellectual and emotional, or even spiritual, evolution of mankind.
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  • -4
    Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I didn't accuse you of being dogmatic (although you are); I am accusing you of being stubborn.

    Haven't I said that when God created man he created the most obstinate and arrogant species in the known universe?
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  • -2
    Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Doby, since I can not argue with you vis-a-vis the validity of evolution---there is no amount of evidence I can present that will ever convince you---I suggest you take the matter up with God.

    I did.
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  • -4
    Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    blarman, you are being stuffy and contentious. I'm thinking I need to PM you again.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you expect me to understand where you are coming from, you have to do more than just start accusing anyone who criticizes your viewpoint with being dogmatic. I respected your inquiry and responded. What I expected was a reasoned explanation of why you believe what you believe. Instead I was granted with a plurality of random accusations which were a total departure from your original line of questioning. You're welcome to your belief on the matter, but I find your diversion (red herring) very discordant with reasoned debate.

    I invited you to share how the problems with the notion of evolutionary origin I presented above have been addressed by evidence or adjustment of the hypothesis. If none such exists, I am left no recourse other than to reject such a theory as incomplete at best, fallacious at worst.
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  • -4
    Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You don't have to read them.
    And, of course, I don't have to post them.

    Which I may not do. It's a pain in the ass.
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  • -3
    Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have just told you that no amount of evidence will convince you. Creationists, or those who eschew evolution, have reasons to disbelieve evolution, that go beyond science.
    I told you I think God was a little more creative and subtle than creationists want to believe.

    I will add this, though. Just as early man was able to create images from clay, or stone, or metal, so primitive man imagined God would do the same, then "breathe" life into his creation, which was something man could not do.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Why not condense your reply into a single post? It gets really tedious to read and reply to split postings.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You asked what problems I saw in the theory of evolution as it currently stands. I gave them. If you have evidence that addresses these concerns, you are welcome to present it.
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  • -3
    Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Because if you're a creationist, no amount of evidence will prove the theory of evolution to you. It is easier to convert an atheist to a belief in God, than to convert a creationist to a belief in evolution.

    If you want to believe that God created man out of a lump of clay, be my guest. I happen to think God was a little more subtle than that.
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  • -4
    Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Doesn't seem to be helping you.

    Please don't tell me you are a chreationist!
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A lack of fossil evidence for one. If evolution really did happen, we should see partially formed creatures at every layer of history. We should see evidence of failed mutations throughout archeological history - and a lot of them. We don't. What do we see? We see an explosion of plant and animal life in one period in history rather than a growing buildup. We've never seen any instances of failed mutation in current ecology either.

    Another problem for evolutionary origin is the sheer volume of different species. Given how difficult it is for even a single successful combination of genes to come to play and the lengths of time evolutionists claim for even minor organisms, it would take trillions of years for the sheer volume of forms of life on this planet to have been generated along the proposed evolutionary paths. That exceeds both the life of our sun and the life of the universe itself.

    Another problem is that of complex systems. According to evolutionary theory, the only way a complex system can happen is if it evolves over time each individual piece in turn (each taking millions of years) or if every single mutation occurred at the same time in the same organism (statistically impossible). Take the digestive system, which starts with mastication and salivary breakdown of simple sugars then slides down into the most caustic environment in the human body - the stomach - which simultaneously assaults the food with both chemical and physical means of breakdown. Then you have a small sphincter mechanism which spurts this half-digested material into the small intestines, where nutrients are absorbed, bile is introduced to aid in breakdown of fat, and fillers and other non-digestibles pass right through. Then the large intestines which absorb excess water and condense the final material for expulsion. There are simply too many complex steps involved of which none makes sense by itself for evolutionary origin to provide for me a sufficient explanation. And digestion is a rather critical process to leave to chance. The same problems exist with circulatory and nervous systems and an even bigger one with the endocrine/lymph system because it is a system for controlling and coordinating other systems (we couldn't even digest much without insulin). All this within a single organism. Extend this to every separate genus and species on the planet and the sheer odds alone defy any rational explanation.

    There are also the astronomical aspects of the Earth's position, tilt, rotational speed or composition; the moon itself or even the presence of Jupiter all as critical aspects in making this a habitable sphere.

    Hope that helps.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Maybe I should ask instead; how do you believe humans got here?
    There are many legitimate scientists who entertain the idea of a "panspermia", or some aspect of that, to explain how life formed on earth.
    How do you think it did?

    I have said, at times, to those who believe life on earth originated from outer space, that perhaps you think Earth is such a stingy planet it could not have supported the "creation" of life.

    And I have called evolution: God's way of creating a robust people for a robust planet."

    And, lastly, I think there should be research into how paleoclimatology could have influenced the genome of the various peoples of the earth.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Where do you find lack of support for the theory of evolution?
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