How Many Bricklayers Did Galt Invite to the Gulch?
Galt went around inviting famous artists, noted business leaders to the Guch, but once there, who built their houses? Who paved their streets, dug their sewer lines?
This isn't a class warfare argument; the building of a house, for example, not only takes a skilled architect, but also skilled craftsmen and industrious laborers.
If the criterion for admission is a belief in "trading value for value", surely Galt should and would have invited "ordinary" workers to the Gulch as well as luminaries like Wyatt and Danagger?
Such people exist lower down on the ladder; people who believe in trading value for value, but lack the creative ability to invent a new motor or miraculous metal. People who didn't inherit an already successful railroad or copper mines, but would be able to get a day's worth of coal or copper dug in a day's worth of hours for a day's worth of pay. Maybe they lack the ambition to go through the headache of running a company when they get more satisfaction from digging coal out of the ground. Maybe they lack the self discipline necessary to see their visions to reality, but are still able and still believe in trading value for value.
What Utopians always underestimate in their rhetoric (no disparagement of Ms Rand intended) is the example America set before them. People's abilities and worth are not necessarily evidenced by their position in life. All the creative brilliance in the world will not get a brick wall built. A brick wall built without knowledge and skill won't stand, but the most creative and brilliantly designed wall will never exist without someone to lay it up brick by brick. Someone whose creative skill may be shrouded by prejudice toward his position in life.
There may not be a place in the Gulch for someone like me. But that would be Galt's loss.
This isn't a class warfare argument; the building of a house, for example, not only takes a skilled architect, but also skilled craftsmen and industrious laborers.
If the criterion for admission is a belief in "trading value for value", surely Galt should and would have invited "ordinary" workers to the Gulch as well as luminaries like Wyatt and Danagger?
Such people exist lower down on the ladder; people who believe in trading value for value, but lack the creative ability to invent a new motor or miraculous metal. People who didn't inherit an already successful railroad or copper mines, but would be able to get a day's worth of coal or copper dug in a day's worth of hours for a day's worth of pay. Maybe they lack the ambition to go through the headache of running a company when they get more satisfaction from digging coal out of the ground. Maybe they lack the self discipline necessary to see their visions to reality, but are still able and still believe in trading value for value.
What Utopians always underestimate in their rhetoric (no disparagement of Ms Rand intended) is the example America set before them. People's abilities and worth are not necessarily evidenced by their position in life. All the creative brilliance in the world will not get a brick wall built. A brick wall built without knowledge and skill won't stand, but the most creative and brilliantly designed wall will never exist without someone to lay it up brick by brick. Someone whose creative skill may be shrouded by prejudice toward his position in life.
There may not be a place in the Gulch for someone like me. But that would be Galt's loss.
There was a man who used to live in Homestead, Florida, who would have been a perfect example. He was very likable but he did things his own way. That included his very famous home--Coral Castle.
Read Coral Castle Construction. A Kindle (electronic) version is available on Amazon for less than 10 bucks. (Sorry, there are very few printed copies left. Good luck if you can find one.)
Some years later, some guys in my department were working on a light-weight electronic circuit to drive a welding rod. I watched a short demonstration and asked if I could take it for a spin. I ran a 2-3" bead between a couple slabs of soft steel. When they broke the oxide layer off, one of the experienced welders said it was one of the nicest beads he'd ever seen. "How long have you been welding?" he asked. I held up two fingers about 2-3" apart. "About that long," I replied with a smile.
I started wood-turning just 2-3 years ago and have produced some really beautiful works. "The Knack" Dilbert video is a reference from my woodworking page.
Lots of folks can do lots of things; even bricklaying and ditch digging. I installed a long cellar drain pipe from Mom's basement to the street... close to 75' or so and did a great job. I cemented Z-Bricks up to a plywood façade in my first house and when a neighbor/contractor took his first look at the finished product, his first question was, "Where did you learn to lay bricks that well?!"
Or, in other words... http://www.plusaf.com/falklaws.htm#2nd
I wrote the HTML for that, too... :)
:)
Oh! Thanks, Eric_in_CO for the reminder... one of my co-workers taught me how to solder copper pipes for household plumbing and drainage. When my hot water heater failed some year or so later, I had to solder about a dozen and a half joints to get it reconnected. All were sweat-soldered joints and none of them leaked at all.
http://www.plusaf.com/falklaws.htm#2nd
I don't really think that US quality hasn't been in demand since the 70's. I found just the opposite in the business I formed and managed. But on the other hand, reduction of costs in most goods has drastically expanded the standard of living, particularly of all in the US. Nearly every home has a large screen TV, air conditioning, internet service, cell phones, refrigerators, and etc. Access to the luxuries of life, even if not the top in quality, is greater than at anytime in history. I just don't agree with the fact that the takers have used the threat of violence against me to take from me in order to pay for all to have those things.
I'm not sure that lax immigration policy had as much to do with changes in the law of supply and demand as did the change to mass production which made things affordable to more, but altered the essential values of craftsmanship- to a price for hours of labor servicing the production line. But even with that, a market remained for quality craftsmanship, even in complicated items such as automobiles and aircraft.
I'm unsure of the brunt of your complaints or statements, particularly in reference to Rand's writings plotted around the philosophy she took and helped to define. She was simply a child growing up in a society at the time in which the collectivist/takers took over her world. She escaped that world to come here only to see some of those same influences beginning their sprouting here. It resulted in the book, AS, which I find to be prophetic and beautiful, as well as particularly fitting my own self developed philosophy.
I quite simply enjoyed her writings and find my self in agreement with most of the philosophy she describes in admittedly dramatic fashion. I'm particularly pleased to see the book made into a movie which serves to distribute much of what's in the book to new generations that don't read that much.
As for Heinlen, another prolific and great futurist writer that I've enjoyed very much. But he, as Rand, and all writers are no more perfect as humans, than are any of us. I don't worship any of them, I just enjoy their writing and I'm always pleased to find in any writing, ideas, scenarios, personalities, and even philosophies that I can relate to. That's all.
KYFHO
Rearden didn't own his own coal mine, but he did own his own ore mine. Some things are more efficiently and profitably purchased from someone else, whether material or labor, but that doesn't mean you don't know how it's done.
I disagree with your premise that 'someone above a certain level of competence is not going to take a job stocking shelves for $1 above minimum wage.' I currently applied for a job that is below my skill level and only about 10 hours a week. Why? Because I want something to do and I don't want to feed the looters and moochers. Besides the bit of extra cash will be used profitably by me, for me.
It suggests a very Gulch-like society.
Unfortunately, the author was biased, and therefore made the society seem successful.
http://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.php
Harry Turtledove's "The Last Article", to my mind, provides the most rational, and historically consistent (in that in past societies this solution was most often successful) solution to the problem presented in "And Then There Were None". http://turtledove.wikia.com/wiki/The_Las...
The law of supply and demand was, and is, being short-circuited by crooked politicians and crooked businessmen. Why is it you can accept crooked businessmen like James Taggart in Atlas Shrugged, but presume all businessmen to be honest and only interested in trading value for value in the real world? I call horseshit.
Ever since the 1970s in the U.S. quality has not been in demand; cheap has. Back in the late 18th and the 19th century the law of supply and demand in labor was short-circuited by lax immigration policy. Work men, women, children to death in (northern) factories; more will get off the boat tomorrow.
The illegal alien situation has repeated the formula. Yes, foodstuff and housing are much cheaper than they would be if the laws restricting honest citizens interested in trading value for value weren't being short-circuited... but prices would adjust, they always do.
Heinlein having been invoked, btw... he had an absolutely abysmal opinion of the house building trades, in many ways justified.
So you built your own house in two years.
Most houses, at least in the midwest, are built in as many months (actual construction, not including preliminary bureaucratic BS). By professional, specialized crews.
It may seem I have a low opinion of construction workers, but then again I grew up around them, so I should know.
there's a reason why low-wage workers tend to also be unthinking (not necessarily dumb, but inept at rational thought, or at least uncomfortable with it). There's a reason low-wage workers tend to lack ambition and/or self-discipline. It's quite simple; anyone with anything on the ball moves up the ladder, and/or has better things to do.
Oh, and there's a difference between being an academic and having a high IQ. Just as there's a difference between intelligence and wisdom.
I'm not here to look smart, or dumb, or look any way whatsoever.
Invoking Godwin's Law, would you kill Hitler if you were thrust back to 1932 and met him, knowing what he is? That's also a fictional situation. People who think they know better than others how to run their lives are dangerous. They lead to Hitlers and Stalins and Obamas.
People who believe in progress are dangerous, in that they don't really value freedom... for others.
People who wish to impose their own vision of utopia on others are likewise dangerous, for the same reason.
And that is why Galt is, in my view, no better than Hitler, or Stalin or Obama.
Most people who stay in a craft long enough to become journeymen lack the ambition and drive to do more... even if they have the mental faculty for it. I'm not speculating; I grew up in the construction industry, remember.
In fact, without specialization, trading value for value becomes much less possible, now that I think about it.
If Rearden can mine his own coal, wtf does he need Danagger for? If he can build/run his own railroad, what's he need Taggart for?
Part of my aggravation here is the idiotic notion that because it is hypothetically possible for Galt to build his own home, by himself, from scratch, that's they way the Gulch does/should work.
Would Wal-mart even be possible if Sam Walton did it all himself? I've no doubt he could do any job in any of his stores, after all he set the standards and practices in his company. So why hire anybody? Just do it all himself, in all... what is it now, 1500 stores?
No, he has to hire people. Someone above a certain level of competence is not going to take a job stocking shelves for $1 above minimum wage (I have to phrase it that way to account for the inflationary effect of minimum wage, sorry). Even if they are bright and competent, they may, like me, lack the self discipline or ambition to be fodder for citizenship in the Gulch. But, if there's to be a Wal-mart in the Gulch, (or a 7/11, or a McDonald's), you're going to have this quality of person to do the work, because anyone more able/ambitious will be doing something else.
And I repeat yet again, these are exactly the kind of people who would swallow Mouch's arguments.
The Pharoah couldn't have built a pyramid without tons of the most successful labor system in history; slavery.
"without scabs"? You use a derogatory UNION term, Mr Objectivist?
So far all you're teaching me is that objectivists are nothing but big-mouthed self-important egotists.
I have no "union buddies". They tend to stay away when you say to them "get the fck away from me before I beat you to death you slimy union sack of shit".
Kind of my reaction ever since they tried to burn my father alive.
Yours is the kind of insular, ignorant, presumptuous comment I would expect.
Thank you for finally making that concession. Doing is not the same as mastering.
I didn't say being intelligent and successful meant you can't lay brick.
Anybody can lay brick, or do carpentry.
But it takes years to make a craftsman at either trade.
I can make my own paper, but I buy it at Wal mart, because it's not worth my time and effort, and the quality is better. To make it myself would cost somewhere around $10 a sheet, if I included per-hour labor for my time. Buying it from the specialists via the shelves of Walmart, I can get an entire pad for a dollar.
And you will (or won't, I don't care at this stage) forgive me if I sneer at your "I built my log cabin in Colorado" statement.
I'm only 51, but in my half century I've seen so very many jackasses who claimed to have built their own home when they merely contributed some minor portion of labor, so many jackasses who claimed mastery of a craft because they could actually complete the actions to build something minor, however incompetently.
I call BS on the whole concept of a city of self-reliant persons. You lose all the advantages of specialization and gain no advantages of self-reliance. And I call BS on it for the most fundamental reason:
History.
What about Stradevarius? Let's see da Vinci manufacture a Strad of equal quality in the same period of time.
Exactly what trades did da Vinci master? Knowing how to do something and mastering it are two different things. He certainly sucked as a helicopter manufacturer.
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