Hi. My name is... Robert Smith

Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago to The Gulch: Introductions
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I'm very happy to have landed in the Gulch... I hope to get some insights for when I watch and discuss the movie.

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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    LOL, sorry, I shouldn't laugh.

    A meal at McD's selling for $8 has to turn a profit. Where exactly do you think that profit comes from when there are 24-35 people working that store? Wages. That is not greed its the proper business model built to make a profit using an unskilled, inexperienced labor force which is paid according to their skillset (or lack thereof) . No one, not yet, is forced to work at McD's.

    From each according to their ability. To each according to their need. Who determines this, you? Pelosi? Obama? H. Clinton (she does have a quote)? Or perhaps everyone should receive one-livable wage regardless of their skills?
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I wonder why? Perhaps it has something to do with decades where Japan didn't have to pay for a military?
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  • Posted by Rocky_Road 10 years, 9 months ago
    Actually, the answer doesn't matter, since we have numerous accounts of what can happen in both cases:

    If B&J's isn't using union labor...and the company hits upon hard times...the owners have to find a way to cut costs.

    The traditional (and responsible) response is to cut the overhead, in an effort to save the business (and the subsequent jobs).

    One of the obvious cuts would be in pay, and/or hours. The workers would either understand the crisis and accept this...or they can freely take a 'walk'.

    Now: same scenario, but throw in a unionized work force.

    Now you have a work force that can't voluntarily join in the restructuring effort on an individual basis, but has to depend on the response of their union leaders.

    Too often, the union leaders will refuse to accept any less than they have already won, up to the point that the business (and the jobs) will die an unnatural death.

    Eastern Airlines is a prime example of this, and GM (and Dodge) would have done the same, except for the unnatural interference of the Federal government, spending taxpayers money without our authorization.

    P.S. I submit that unions have NO LEGITIMATE PLACE in the government (read: public sector) workplace.

    The paycheck writers (the taxpayers) have no representation at the bargaining table, and are screwed from the get go. They have no chance of 'winning'....
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    Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    From AJA: "Its not intended for a living wage, its intended for students to make a few bucks while in high school or college."

    Really? I thought corporations were for one thing: TO MAKE MONEY FOR THE INVESTORS.
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    Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And????????? What do you say about corporations who don't pay very much, if any tax?

    Rob
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Employers pay what the market will bear. McD's pays low wage for unskilled hands to flip burgers, make fries and shakes. McD's is not a restaurant, its a fast food chain. Its not intended for a living wage, its intended for students to make a few bucks while in high school or college. The fact that grown adults have to take those jobs and treat them like a profession only underscores the pitiful economic condition we are in.

    I could never staff any of my business with people who were not paid well. I paid for quality, personality and professionalism. If I hadn't I would never have lasted as long as I did.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    false presumption that there is a limited amount of work. Fail. whenever, you see high unemployment, go to the govt interference in the market place. for example, the countries with the lowest unemployment have the highest economic freedom index. the countries with the highest "real" unemployment rates are those in which the govt interferes extensively in the employment market (ie. you precious union rules-political favoritism)
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    the elephants in the room are ignored. Detroit, any number of cities brought to their knees with education workers contracts. and look at delivery. product. I can do this with t=you, I have already pointed out that I am not inherently against unionizing, I am against govt favoritism that gives union employees greater rights than anyone else. Unions set the workers free in the soviet union...jus sayin
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    Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    From khaling: "It's one reason pension plans of lowest skilled workers can bring down a company due to salary and benefits,,,?

    How many part timers at McDonald's are eligible for the retirement plan?

    Rob
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    Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Part Two: From AJA: "NONE of those people would be there if not for a paycheck and none would be there long if they didn't perform their job with a degree of professional pride. Individual labor by individual people....self interest (their paycheck) is paramount."

    Just one small aspect of professionals, doctors. Many work for the military that pays far below what a doctor can make outside. Doctors Without Borders offers fine medical care for free. Kids don't pay for care at Shriners' Hospitals.

    Even the alleged "evil" abortion doctors who allow women to control their own bodies only make about $55,000 each year.

    See: http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k-ab... "Average Abortion Doctor Salaries
    The average salary for abortion doctor jobs is $55,000. Average abortion doctor salaries can vary greatly due to company, location, industry, experience and benefits."

    The very low average is because so many donate their time. IOW, not everyone works for the "paycheck."

    In fact from a personal point of view I'd be suspect of a doctor who was in it just for the money. Sadly too many are, but there are still some who are in medicine just to help people.

    Rob
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    Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Two parts, this one first AJA says: "I'm not adverse to collaborative efforts, there is a need for coordinated labor to achieve goals but to discount the individual talents of every person on the team is ludicrous."

    But, time and again labor is discounted when it comes to earning a living wage. That's why they gang up and protect themselves. Might you please consider the notion that some corporations are out to exploit others? MickyD's is an excellent example.

    Rob
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh Mike, this is so delicious... You posted relative to Newt: "the government" or "bureaucrats" your enemies. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen, these are your neighbors." Allow me to add that if you make war on "moochers" in a society where the government is pervasive, then you attack school janitors, librarians, and the doctors at the county hospital."

    Yet, at the same time I remember old Newt saying: "Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors, have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school. The kids would actually do work, they would have cash, they would have pride in the schools, they'd begin the process of rising."

    First, what's going to become of those janitors who were supporting families? Oh! I get it, they can get money from the kid working as a janitor. That and a couple more folks working at MickyD's will almost make ends meet. Second... Well, there really is no second until you can explain child labor and how it exploits kids.

    Rob
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Every person on any one of those projects has a series of project managers who oversee each aspect and the safety of the construction. Did they lay the roads, airports, sewers. and water ways without supervision and engineers? I'm not adverse to collaborative efforts, there is a need for coordinated labor to achieve goals but to discount the individual talents of every person on the team is ludicrous. If a welder doesn't perform his job to near perfection a bridge could collapse from being too much weight, if the engineer doesn't design his construct could fail...you can look at these things as validation for your point but the truth is NONE of those people would be there if not for a paycheck and none would be there long if they didn't perform their job with a degree of professional pride. Individual labor by individual people....self interest (their paycheck) is paramount. Also, those public dollar projects are supposede to be the purpose of those taxes being taken, no? I know here in Phoneix these folks get paid pretty well... in a right to work state how can that be?

    As for your coporation being a person I know that its a degree of legalese that I am not that well acquainted with. I can look at a corporation as an entity before I designate it as a person. I'm sure that the "person" status conveys some legal aspect that you are trying to make - here is your opportunity.
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Holey Smokes, Rocky... "He was referring to the 47% of Americans that do not pay any income taxes,"

    That's not what I got from the clip I saw. BTW, what do you think of all those corporations who through legal gyrations have off shore operations to avoid American taxes? I wish I could do that as in individual, but alas it's denied me no matter how much I make unless I incorporate or move elsewhere..

    Rob
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    khaling says: "When they were no longer as relevant, they went away."

    An excellent perspective for a union. My own "shop" doesn't have a union, notwithstanding an election several years ago.

    Ben & Jerry's is an excellent example how they can both pay a livable wage (almost twice the minimum) and get by. You can get more information at: http://www.benjerry.com/activism/peace-a...

    Rob
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Do you disagree with moderation? I've found very few things to be absolutely black and white. How's 'bout you?

    Rob
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    From AJA: ". Whatever individual success comes from within a society is from the individuals themselves..." Really?

    Please tell me, which "individual" created the highways, airports, sewers, and water?

    The point is that society creates an environment within which some individuals can produce and distribute more than they otherwise might.

    How many cars can be made without someone else mining the iron for steel or rubber for the tires? How can one of your alleged super achievers survive if he had to gather and hunt their own food?

    Nobody does it alone anymore. Society makes it possible.

    Rob
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  • Posted by Rocky_Road 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You misrepresented Romney's statement that he made to an invited group of his supporters:

    He was referring to the 47% of Americans that do not pay any income taxes, and stating (correctly) that there was no chance of them voting for anyone that would change that statistic.

    He was telling it like it is...that a fiscal conservative was already 47% behind, and getting tougher.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    if the US respected and enforced natural rights, none of this would be relevant.On a corporation as a person. Only under the law is this considered the case. Whenever the corporation has been defined differently, it has been an excuse to steal the wealth of the investors.
    http://hallingblog.com/corporations-have...
    Twain talked about a union for riverboat captains and they did not violate anyone's rights, did a number of positive moves for navigation on the major rivers. When they were no longer as relevant, they went away.
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