Perhaps the Moocher should spring for a few bucks and become a Producer before casting stones at long-term Gulchers.

The quotes are from fivedollargold and BJ itself. They are not "representations not in evidence" as he continues to dishonestly misrepresent. He does not address that content, substituting instead personal, demeaning insults showing that he does not belong here.

You can believe anything you want to. The fact is that you said that graduating from Hillsdale should be a requirement to be president and then misrepresented your own post and the response to it. It is also a fact that Hillsdale is a religious college, as you can see directly from reading its own Mission Statement and as otherwise publicized on its website and from looking at how they teach their history and other courses with religious conservative re-interpretations. It is so prevalent in the conservative movement, with or without the religious zealotry, that it can be easy to follow along without realizing the switch.

It's history of resisting government intrusion is admirable but it remains that it is a religious conservative school by intent in its campus life and curricula. Imprimis seems to be mostly guest conservative lecturers.

Fivedollargold concurs with your view.

As usual, the Moocher makes representations not in evidence. Fivedollargold suggests ewv put on his verjuice-stained blouse and take a couple of reading courses at his local community college. Then, with improved reading skills, reread Atlas Shrugged and post an essay demonstrating her newly acquired critical reading ability. On second thought, a writing course is also recommended.

You can argue my point(s) until the cows come home and, right or wrong, my opinion is still mine. I did not start this debate on religion and, frankly, was oblivious to Hillsdale's religious tendencies until you brought them into the fore. Therefore, please stop trying to paint me as some kind of religious zealot.

Thank you.

You and I are completely aligned on religion, but I still respect Hillsdales history and positions. They snub government oversight, and accept other/no religions. I'm not sure if they are underhanded, but I had to look pretty far in their Iprimis literature to find something religiously motivated (gay marriage). Its in there for sure.

Ayn Rand's philosophy is not "highly conservative"; she explicitly rejected conservativism. "Emphasizes minimal government, individual achievement, and the value of work" is not a philosophy. You have already been given a link to where you can read what philosophy is and what Ayn Rand's philosophy is in particular. Ayn Rand's philosophy is what she said it is, not whatever you want it to be for your own agenda. Rejecting your nonsensical misrepresentations, and objecting to corruption of this forum with militant religious conservatism while insulting and sneering at Ayn Rand and those who know what her philosophy is is not Soviet "suppression of free speech". Please take your juvenile insults and misrepresentations elsewhere. There are plenty of places on the web where that mentality is expected and encouraged.

Hillsdale Mission Statement: https://www.hillsdale.edu/about/missi...

The history and politics courses are laced with religious conservative re-interpretations, it shows up wherever philosophical values are https://www.hillsdale.edu/hillsdale-b...

Hillsdale is a liberal arts college but has majors in physics, chemistry, biology, and mathematics, but not specific engineering fields. Likewise, MIT has majors and minors in many areas other than engineering. Based on Hillsdale's advertising of "independence" as if it had a monopoly on academic integrity you wouldn't pick Hillsdale over MIT for any of them, though in many non-science cases it would be a false alternative and you wouldn't choose either if you want to avoid the statist progressivism on the one hand and the religious emphasis on the other.

You may be right, but it sure doesn't look like they press religion in their Web page. Of course my information is <1hr of perusing.
An engineering student doesn't have to choose between HIllsdale or MIT. Hillsdale doesn't offer engineering.

If ewv had more than a superficial knowledge of Objectivism, he or she would realize that it is in many ways a highly conservative philosophy, which emphasizes minimal government, individual achievement, and the value of work. But of course, as a Moocher here in the Gulch, she or he is just another lazy philosopher wannabe spouting unimaginative, reactionist tripe, who advocates suppression of free speech that our great mentor would recognize from her days in the Soviet Union.

Atlas Shrugged is a philosophical novel describing and illustrating Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason and egoism. As a consequence it emphatically rejects any belief in the supernatural and faith. This is well known. So is the fact that Ayn Rand emphatically rejected religion in politics, specifically religious conservativism, and explained why.

Atlas Shrugged is not about shallow conservative slogans reducing it to "producers and moochers" pretending there is no philosophical base and no body of extensive explanation provided by what you deride as "Saint Ayn" who "may have been an atheist". You do not snottily tell those who know far more about this than you to "try reading Atlas Shrugged carefully next time". If you want to learn what Ayn Rand's philosophy is that made Atlas Shrugged possible, start with this: https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...

Bob Jones, with which you have been associated and are promoting, is well known and well documented as a dogmatic religious institution in addition to tying religion to conservative politics. Links and quotes from the Bob Jones website have also been provided here. Your denial is dishonest. It is the worst of the worst substituting for a rational college education.

Your defiantly personal and loutish insults would be enough to justify removing you for violating the guidelines here. Your insults and promotions of a religious institution are not "inspired conversation". You are not a "like minded individual". This is not a place for religious conservative militant activists to promote their anti Ayn Rand ideology and its institutions with contempt for Ayn Rand while rudely insulting those who reject the attempted takeover as being what you call the "trolls".

This, is Galt's Gulch Online.
OUR PURPOSE

We have ideas to spread - We're passionate about Ayn Rand's ideas and we hope to assist in their propagation by engaging in some inspired conversation.

Your attempt to shut Fivedollargold down with comments not in evidence, is contrary to our purpose (see above). He did not "defend" religious dogma, but pointed out that uninformed blanket statements simply reflect badly on the ignorant troll who posted them. Fivedollargold has been to the BJU campus, hired two of their faculty (including one lesbian), and knows several of their graduates who are courteous, fine people. Saint Ayn may have been an atheist, but Objectivism isn't about religion; it's about Producers and Moochers. Try reading Atlas Shrugged carefully next time.

The purpose of this site as an Ayn Rand forum was determined by those who built and own it. Ayn Rand was not a conservative. Anything posted here is subject to challenge and discussion, especially when it is contrary to the purpose of the forum. You should not be surprised by that when you try to defend something like Bob Jones religious dogma in education https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post..., which is the opposite of Atlas Shrugged and Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason and individualism.

Rejecting Federal funding is good, but they try to sell it as meaning what is taught at Hillsdale is independent of control in contrast to what is taught at every other college and university, implied to be controlled by the government. That isn't true. The curricula and content of specific courses everywhere is predominantly determined by the culture influencing the colleges own policies and choices of individual professors.

Hillsdale's choice in particular to emphasize religion, social conservatism, and religious re-interpretations of history as inherent in its educational content is a steep price to pay in the name of an equivocation on "independence". There are wide differences in the quality and focus of different colleges and universities and the choice of where to apply should be based on what they do, how well they do it, and the difficulty of being accepted, not the false alternative of religion versus directly or indirectly accepting government funding through student loans or more (as in public funding of public universities or research grants to professors at private institutions). An engineering student, for example, should not decide between MIT and Hillsdale based on Hillsdale's advertising of financial independence from government.

Who appointed ewv the arbitrator of what can and can't be said here?

Look at the Bob Jones website and see for yourself what it is. It is notorious for being full-blown religious dogma. Please do not try to foist this nonsense off on us at an Ayn Rand forum.

The home page http://www.bju.edu/ starts off with:

"Build Faith. Challenge Potential. Follow Christ.

"At Bob Jones University we inspire you as a disciple of Jesus Christ to push the limits of your own creativity, skill and faith—all for the glory of God. We infuse every course with a biblical worldview and strive to offer the best academic experience of any Christian university. Our vibrant Christian community will support you as you build your faith, challenge your potential and prepare to follow Jesus Christ."

At https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...

"Creed

"We believe in the inspiration of the Bible (both the Old and the New Testaments); the creation of man by the direct act of God; the incarnation and virgin birth of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ; His identification as the Son of God; His vicarious atonement for the sins of mankind by the shedding of His blood on the cross; the resurrection of His body from the tomb; His power to save men from sin; the new birth through the regeneration by the Holy Spirit; and the gift of eternal life by the grace of God."

They then go on to take dogmatic institutional "positions" on a whole host of topics based on the Bible, including Creationism against science. This is not education.

Yes, "their graduates are at a disadvantage", to put it mildly.

Depends on the department, some of which are very good. They refuse government control even to the extent of declining regional accreditation. Thus, their graduates are at a disadvantage. You would be mistaken to assume their students and faculty are all holy rollers, as you call it. Nor are secular colleges free from dogma. Try opposing climate change on a secular campus or God forbid, making a conservative speech.

Bob Jones does not claim to be independent of Federal funding, but is irrelevant from serious consideration of educational institutions for its extreme religiosity. It is the overt, holy roller version of Hillsdale. Even the small biology department is explicitly based on Creationism.

They are not arbitrary premises. They are facts. You misrepresented your own post that stated that graduating from the religious conservative Hillsdale college should be "required" to be president.Religious faith is not education and not appropriate for government officials in their government roles. This is an Ayn Rand forum. Faith in religion is not the basis and standard for discussion.

There is no preference for any college a president should have attended. We elect a president as an individual, not a college. Education is what one makes of it for himself and is a life long experience. There have been both good and bad people who graduated from, for example, Harvard, or no college at all. Attending a religious college like Hillsdale is not a preference, let alone a requirement. One may or may not get a good education in some respects from Hillsdale, but its promotion by religious conservatives as the superior college because it is religious conservative is wrong for the same reason that all religious conservatism is wrong as a philosophical and historical basis of this country.

I, respectfully, disagree with your premise. However, I would like to know which college(s) you prefer to see a prospective Presidential candidate be a graduate of?

Mixing religion with education is religious indoctrination. It is not "solid Constitutional teachings". A lawyer who tried to defend you with religion in a court because he doesn't know the difference would fail no matter how good a student he had been in accepting what he was told.

Your statement that you were "shot down because of Hillsdale's 'religious' leaning" for a "suggestion ... that we would get a decent Presidential candidate" from Hillsdale is false. Hillsdale has a mission to promulgate religion and mix it with history in the name of education, not a "religious leaning", and you said graduating from Hillsdale should be a "requirement" for being President. That is why your post was rejected. Your misrepresentation of that is not honest.

For those who already understand enough of history, philosophy and social sciences to know the difference between fact and fantasy and who can critically follow a lecture without being misled by biases, listening to some of the Hillsdale online lectures can be worthwhile if supplemented by wider critical reading. The same is true for many other sources of conservative political commentary. For students just starting out or those who don't understand what they are missing because of previous misleading education and propaganda, the religious mission of Hillsdale is destructive indoctrination in both content and method of thinking and content. Some of those steeped in or affected by religious conservatism who don't realize what Hillsdale is doing and how it is misleading and undermining education are actively promoting it without qualification as if it were the best source of education. It is not.

Yes, you are correct, except for the "background in religious indoctrination". My comments were based on the solid Constitutional teachings of that college...not it's religious background. Just like if I needed a defense lawyer, I would prefer a graduate of Gonzaga University (a Jesuit school), because they turn out superior students.

Seems like part of a pattern of being punished for trying to comply. Some links and quotes:
"Cambria-Rowe closing its doors" http://www.wearecentralpa.com/news/lo.... "Their accreditor . . . will no longer be recognized by the Department of Education and without this accreditation their students cannot receive financial aid."

"DuBois Business College to close its doors after 131 years" http://www.thecourierexpress.com/news.... "DBC is taking this final action now because of issues with the accrediting agency ACICS and its role within the government bureaus that regulate student financial aid."

Accrediting Council for Independent Colleges and Schools: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accredi.... "[I]nstitutions it accredits are required to demonstrate a student retention rate of at least 75 percent."

Appears wiser to be defiant -- like Hillsdale and Grove City: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grove_C....