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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 11 months ago
    Cheney was right in his analysis of the Iraq situation, but he and Bush were wrong in their premise that they could establish a foothold for civilization in Iraq. I and many others still fail to see why we should violate the Prime Directive. When societies choose to become part of the civilized world, then I will welcome them. Until then ...
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 11 months ago
      We'll never know, but I'm sure that not leaving a stabilizing force didn't help the situation in Iraq any. Could they have transformed to a natural rights loving democratic form of nation? Who knows. They're deeply tribal, and even areas that had decades of "unity" like the Balkans, it is hard and long work.

      We left troops in Europe and Japan as much to ensure those nations didn't slide back to their old ways as to prevent the spread of communism. We should have done so in Iraq, and we should do so in Afghanistan as well.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 11 months ago


        Not leaving a stabilizing force behind didn't help the situation in Iraq any. That is true. However, if after Europe, Japan, Iraq, and Afghanistan, we haven't learned that nation building is a waste of time, we should have our heads examined. The reason we do it is not to mitigate the spread of communism. The reason it is done is to enable the right wing cronies to support the Republican Party in much the same way that Democrats enabling unions starts the same vicious cycle on the left of the political aisle.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 11 months ago
          How so? Please elaborate.
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 11 months ago
            In saying this, I am going to sound like a Democrat, and I am definitely not a Democrat. Going to war for people like Lindsey Graham and John McCain is way too easy, because the defense contractors reward them with campaign contributions in exchange for their calls for war.

            Likewise, the unions, particularly teachers' unions, reward Democrat politicians in exchange for pillaging the rich to increase the salaries of union employees. This is most true at the city and county school level.

            What have we gotten for our nation building? The only country we helped rebuild that is worth anything to the United States is South Korea, and even their support for us is tepid. We get virtually nothing for our nation building. These countries should appreciate our effort. They don't. They mock us. It is time to be more selfish.
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 11 months ago
              Oh, I don't know. Germany has been a rather good economic partner and within their regulated capabilities a military partner as well. Likewise, Japan has not been that bad of an ally. Can we despise them for being better capitalists than were we? As for France, Italy, most of the rest of Europe, they certainly haven't been of much benefit.

              I was thinking that your comments were relating to the payments to the MilIndComplex to outfit the military. While there is some truth to that, most of the expense has been paid directly and indirectly to the foreign nations in the form of base leases, local materials procurement, and the money that troops stationed there spend in their economy instead of in ours.
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              • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 11 months ago
                Germany and Japan are not bad allies or economic partners, but neither thinks that they owe us anything for helping rebuild them. My father was in Japan during the rebuilding (during the Korean War). He told me the US military was despised there at that time.

                No country gets to economic prosperity because other countries make them so. This is a corollary to AR philosophy. They have to get there on their own.
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                • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
                  I spoke to a former military guy who told me Japan was the worst place he was stationed. He said they were ignorant towards the soldiers. His opinion.
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                  • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 11 months ago
                    I don't know what "ignorant towards the soldiers" means. The Japanese are very "shy" people (and quite arrogant, in my opinion, probably comes from being an island people). They have learned English in school for decades, but will refuse to speak it unless they have confidence that they speak it very well. There are very significant cultural differences between the east and the west. Most young soldiers haven't had the cultural exposure or sensitivity to be able to handle those differences and hence stumble into problems just through ignorance.
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                    • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
                      That's possible. It was just his opinion. The cultural differences makes sense. Not sure this matters but the person I spoke to went on to work for the NSA. Currently retired.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
        If we had left forces behind and prevented the situation from descending into chaos anything is possible. It's also possible things would have fallen apart anyway. It just seems wrong that we just walked away.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 11 months ago
          Perhaps, and if so, that would have been an indication that we didn't leave enough. Impossible to know now. What is obvious is that not leaving any was an open invitation to what has occurred. Particularly with Malicki behaving the way that he was.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 11 months ago
    Again as I commented in a related post of Cheney's op ed, Cheney and his cabal of neo-conservatives (American Globalist Imperialists) seriously damaged this nation using the excuse of fear of terrorists and WMD's. They did more to reduce the unalienable rights of the American citizen than any other administration - Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, Medicare Part D, No Child Left Behind, the beginnings of the current and ongoing financial crisis.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
      I was a little surprised that more people didn't take note when Obama reauthorized the Patriot Act. I would guess that many on the left assumed he would allow it to expire.
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 11 months ago
        Yes, I agree. I began to include in my comment that the continued and even more expansive restriction of individual rights by Obama's group indicate something dire in the common perception of the differences in the two parties.
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  • Posted by shivas 9 years, 11 months ago
    This is a difficult topic to grasp for many on both sides of the issue:

    On the one hand...I'm against the nation building thing for all reasons stated: it doesn't work, it creates enemies, and the looters take advantage of the situation providing weapons, and the entire supply chain behind the effort. It perpetuates the military industrial complex and like all business they want a growth industry. Unfortunately they are dependent on the American public voting for hawks and interventionists and many of our politicians are all too happy to oblige for their contributions.

    On the other hand...there are totalitarian regimes out the that essentially enslave their subjects and treat others worse than property (see honor killings and female castration). Like most, this conflicts with my morality.

    To top it all off, the left has seized upon the general belief that Bush and Chaney were lying to justify the current administration's continuous fabrications. Like that is a reasonable justification.

    Once upon a time we set the example of what liberty and freedom could create and others tried hard to emulate us. But, it's a long process and it's painful to watch other humans suffer at the hands of tyrants in the interim. Is it too late for that to work again or in this era of instantaneous and graphic information have we become too squeamish?
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    • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
      Very well said Shivas. I think we can back to setting an example for the world but not with this administration. We need to keep electing the best people available. Eric Cantors primary loss is encouraging. It doesn't matter what letter is next to your name, if you do wrong by the voters you're out. I still think we can set things right again.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 11 months ago
    She had to do this story to make Fox News look fair and balanced. Why must news be fair or balanced?
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 11 months ago
      I don't think so. They were questions that have been asked and needed to be answered. Providing the forum was a service to him and his positions.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 11 months ago
        You are correct here in what you say about Dick Cheney, Robbie, but he and GWBush had a false premise as I wrote below.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 11 months ago
          You allude to facts that don't seem to be in the public domain. If you have access to said facts, then you are able to make evaluations that I am not. But based on the available evidence, Saddam believed that he had WMD. Based on his brutality and ruthlessness, I find it less likely for his subordinates to lie to him than to us.

          Without other evidence, it is my hypothesis that said WMD are either buried in the Iraqi desert or were spirited to Syria.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
      I thought the questions were valid and gave Cheney a chance to answer his critics. Obama and Biden made a big deal in the 08 election cycle about Mcain Bush and Cheney being wrong about Iraq. He corrected a lot of disinformation.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 11 months ago
        Cheney was right in his analysis of this situation and of the facts. There are some facts about Iraq, Syria, and chemical weapons that many have speculated about. Let's just say that I have confirmation.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 11 months ago
    History did NOT prove they got it wrong; I saw the interview before I turned it, because Kelly was pushing the FALSE narrative that the left has been pushing since the war began.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
      I think she wanted to give Cheney a fair chance to answer his critics. The left wing media loons would have interrupted him. She let him speak his mind.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 11 months ago
        I agree. Challenging interviews are always better. I even thought the HC interview by Bret Baier and Greta VS earlier this week was a good interview and she handled herself much better than she had with the several softball interviews over the past couple of weeks (darn it).
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      • Posted by Rocky_Road 9 years, 11 months ago
        I concur...this was a forum for Cheney to give his side of the 'story'.

        What is so good about this, is that Cheney gets his 'say', and the liberals cannot claim that it was a 'softball' interview!
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