The Collapsing Obama Doctrine

Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 10 months ago to The Gulch: General
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Dick Cheney weighs in on Obama and the current situation in Iraq.
SOURCE URL: http://online.wsj.com/articles/dick-cheney-and-liz-cheney-the-collapsing-obama-doctrine-1403046522


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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 9 years, 10 months ago
    The Obama Doctrine is right on schedule...
    1) Ending Individual Rights
    2) Ending Capitalism
    3) Ending Nation-States
    4) Ending Private Property
    5) Ending Western civilization
    6) Creating Global Tribalism with Him as chief
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 10 months ago
    I have a letter of thanks from Lynn Cheney. I sent her a note after listening to an interview with Terri Gross of NPR's "Fresh Air." That being as it may, this article by Dick Cheney in the WSJ critical of President Obama is just political posturing.

    ISIS and Al Qaeda are not allies:
    "A U.S. counterterrorism official called the al-Qaeda announcement “unprecedented” and said Zawahiri had been left with “little choice but to announce a rupture that, for all intents and purposes, had already taken place.” But despite the weight the al-Qaeda brand still carries among jihadists worldwide, the official said, ISIS “has never been dependent on AQ core for resources or direction, so the tangible impact of the decision may not be that significant.” The official was not authorized to discuss the matter on the record." -- http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/midd...

    "Clashes this year between al Qaeda’s official Syria wing, the Nusra Front, and the franchise’s disowned offspring, The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), has killed hundreds of fighters and displaced tens of thousands of civilians." -- http://weaselzippers.us/185941-al-qaedas... (Note that this was a Reuters story.)

    This is a religious war between militants of two Islamic sects. It is sad but true that a strong (inhumane) ruler like Saddam Hussein or Jozip Broz (Marshall Tito) of the former Yugoslavia is all that holds such tribalists in a nation.

    The true preventative is a culture of reality and reason. You do not get that with a military victory. If the USA were still the military ruler of Iraq, instead of fighting each other, these factions would be targeting Americans - which is what they did. With the USA gone, the reality cannot be evaded that Iraq is not and never was a nation, but a fiction of Britain's punishment of the Ottoman Empire for its support of Germany. ... that and the desire for fueling depots for its then-new oil (not coal) powered navy.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago
      Dick Cheney served as White House Chief of Staff, Secretary of Defense, had a successful career in the private sector and was Vice President. I don't think that someone no longer seeking political office would simply be "posturing" and he is clearly one of the most qualified people to speak on this issue. If non intervention is the answer then why did Obama intervene in Libya? Muammar Gaddafi didn't pose a direct threat to the US and was the type of leader you said brought stability. It appears that Obama wants chaos in the Middle East and that is what we have. If we were working toward true energy independence I could understand it but his strategy or doctrine is frighteningly dangerous.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 10 months ago
        No, Rich, see the video posted under "New Domino Theory". Dick Cheney correctly identified in 1994 what the outcome would be - and then went ahead and did it anyway. I agree that he is technically competent but he is actually a driver of the so-called "Obama Doctrine."
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        • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago
          I just don't use rational thought to figure out irrational people. The only thing these backwards insurgents understand is brute force or the threat of it. Obama has completely removed even the threat of force. He seems willing to sit back and let the most violent group available take over all of Syria and Iraq.
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    • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 10 months ago
      " It is sad but true that a strong (inhumane) ruler like Saddam Hussein or Jozip Broz (Marshall Tito) of the former Yugoslavia is all that holds such tribalists in a nation. "

      Let's hear it; three cheers for multiculturalism!

      If I were President, then the USA would still be the military ruler of Iraq,and there would be no targeting of Americans.

      But you guys keep voting for nice guys who tell you what you think you want to hear.

      Harry Turtledove's "The Last Article" outlines the methods we should have used in Iraq, Afghanistan and the entire middle east.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_A...

      The wikipedia entry is distorted by typical modern blind political correctness, but it gets the essential facts correct. (Except, Model didn't perpetrate the Qtub road massacre; Ghandi did.)

      Part of what it misses is Model's motivation, as a professional soldier...

      When Ghandi leads the Qtub road march, and the Wehrmacht soldiers fail to stop it, Field Marshall Model goes to Qtub road. While arguing with Ghandi, he drops his handkerchief part way to the waiting soldiers and their machine guns. He tells Ghandi that if any of his people pass that point, he washes his hands of them. Ghandi snidely asserts that he is quoting Pilate:

      "Pilate washed his hands to evade responsibility," the field marshall answered steadily; he was in control of himself again. "I accept it; I am responsible to my Fuhrer and to Oberkommando-Wehrmacht for maintaining Reich control over India, and I will do what I see fit to carry out that obligation."

      What happens after the massacre... Model chastises the soldiers who failed to break up the march, and laid the blame for the death and suffering at their feet; had they done their job, they would have broken up the march and nobody would have had to have been shot. He then requires them to put the wounded out of their misery as penance.

      Another important point; Ghandi and Nehru listen to the radio in hiding to hear the expected repudiation of Model by the German government. Imagine their dismay when they hear the government not only commend Model, but warned that responses to any more such disobedience will be worse.

      When Gandhi calls a general strike, Model determines that the railroads are most needed back in operation, so he sends squads to every twentieth house of the railway workers, pulled them out and had them shot. Pretty soon, they began returning to work.

      Part of the last conversation between Model and Ghandi:

      Model refused to be baited. "We do what is right for our volk, for our Reich. We are meant to rule, and rule we do - as you see."

      While I know many, if not most of you feel the United States should put its figurative balls on the shelf and huddle on the east coast of this continent, pretending to be "equal" to everyone else out there, some of us are not willing to see history repeat in the streets of our home towns.
      We needed to go into the middle east and clean house long ago. Agreed, Iraq is a convenient political fiction; it should have been made a British protectorate at its creation; a colony whose existence was for the benefit of the British, not the Arab Moslems. Instead, the British played politics with their collective consciences, which is always a recipe for disaster.

      "The true preventative is a culture of reality and reason. You do not get that with a military victory."

      Speak for yourself. *I* do. The Romans did, before they became multicultural. The British did, before they became multicultural. The present Japan is a creation of our military victory.

      Objectivism, like most ideologies, only works within the context of a given culture and society. Out there in the real world, one might presume to force lions to lay down with lambs and live in harmony.
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  • Posted by straightlinelogic 9 years, 10 months ago
    Two points about the current Iraq situation that have been overlooked. We have no troops in Iraq now because Iraq did not want them there. Much has been made about Obama's "failure" to negotiate a Status of Forces agreement. Obama, however, offered a continuing presence of 10,000 troops. The sticking point was a clause, standard in SOF agreements, giving our troops and intelligence officials immunity from Iraqi civil and criminal judicial processes for acts committed in Iraq. After Abu Ghraib and other atrocities, Iraq would not agree to immunity, and that killed the deal. Even now, without an SOF with an immunity clause, a soldier who shoots a civilian he mistakenly thought was aiming a rifle at him, or a soldier who goes berserk after his best friend is blown up by an IED and takes out his anger on civilians, can be subject to Iraq's judicial processes. These things happen in wars, especially wars fought at 115 degrees.
    The other point is that ISIS we are supposed to be fighting in Iraq is the exact same ISIS we were supposed to ally with in Syria. It is an offshoot of Sunni al Qaeda and draws financial support and military manpower from our supposed allies, Sunni Turkey and Sunni Saudi Arabia. By putting ourselves on the side of the Shi'a Iraqi government, we put ourselves on the side of Shi'a Iran, whether anyone admits it or not, which until recently was our Great Satan in the Middle East. If somebody can give me a rational explanation for our pretzel logic Middle East policy, I'd love to hear it, but I sure didn't get it from the Cheney opinion piece. Not once in the article were the words Sunni and Shi'a even used, although that schism is the key to understanding what has happened for the past several centuries in the Middle East, and will probably remain the key for the next several centuries.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago
      Has it ever been explained how it was possible for the Iraqi government to not sign on to a status of forces agreement? I know they didn't want to agree to the immunity clause but we should have had the clout to force the issue.
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      • Posted by straightlinelogic 9 years, 10 months ago
        By "had the clout" you essentially mean the US could have placed our army in Iraq against the wishes of the Iraqi government and its people. While I agree that would be entirely consonant with our one true "interest" in the Middle East--oil--it would also expose our complete hypocrisy in promoting "democracy" there.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago
          The SOF agreement was talked about as if it was completely expected. The US has been hypocritical before so that would not have been much of a shock. The biggest question is not how we got here but what do we do now? Would partitioning still work?
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          • Posted by straightlinelogic 9 years, 10 months ago
            What I've said since 9/12/01 is stay out of the Middle East and let Allah sort it out. Whoever is in charge will need money and they'll sell the world's largest economy oil, which is all we should really care about.
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 10 months ago
              The problem with that is that they have this religion that calls for them to convert all other living humans or to exterminate them - and they believe in it, or at least a sufficient enough number do so as to make it dangerous for us.
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              • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago
                Good point Robbie. Hard to just ignore people like that.
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                • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 10 months ago
                  You certainly do so at your own peril.
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                  • Posted by straightlinelogic 9 years, 10 months ago
                    Nobody yet has been able to figure out how to maintain a sustained invasion of the US (at least not for a couple of centuries) and I don't think a bunch of Islamic fanatics will either. I also suspect if we get out of their countries, they'll leave us alone. Take away their favorite "Satan" and they'll be stuck killing each other. The only way they can defeat us is if we're over there.
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                    • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 10 months ago
                      Take a look around at any large city, heck, even small cities and rural communities.

                      Despite what they say, it is a fundamental tenet of their religion to convert or kill. That is different from the teaching of nearly all other religions, certainly the main ones.
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                      • Posted by straightlinelogic 9 years, 10 months ago
                        They didn't start killing Americans until we got involved in the Middle East during the Cold War.
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                        • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 10 months ago
                          Let's see, so helping the Mujahideen defeat the Soviets caused them to despise the US? Yes, that's logical.
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                          • Posted by straightlinelogic 9 years, 10 months ago
                            The Mujahideen, and especially the Arabs who joined and dominated their cause, including Osama bin Laden, hated, and continue to hate, the US for propping up the very corrupt Saudi Arabian government. Saudi Arabia has perhaps the most unequal wealth distribution on the planet. The House of Saud was installed by the British in the 1930s and US oil companies followed. Imagine a foreign power that came to the US, installed some small group as a dictatorial government (anybody who doesn't think Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship is invited to spend a month or two there) and backed them up with its military might, made that small group fabulously wealthy, trained its secret police, extracted American mineral wealth on favorable terms, and said nothing about its puppet government's repression. How would you feel about that foreign nation? Like the Mujahideen, you might take that nation's aid if it helped defeat another enemy, but you'd still despise that nation.

                            The corrupt coterie that runs Saudi Arabia has been playing us for decades, with oil as their trump card. Is it any wonder that those on the outside in that nation hate us? I find it quite logical. Many of the insiders (like Osama bid Laden once was) hate us too, although they'll take our military assistance and sell us oil. That hasn't stopped them from funding Sunni terrorists across the Middle East and elsewhere (15 of the 19 9/11 terrorists hailed from Saudi Arabia), paying them off so they don't upset the applecart in Saudi Arabia. With "friends" like Saudi Arabia, who needs enemies, and is it any wonder that those who don't like its government don't like the US government?

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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 10 months ago
    Some of Cheney's comments are also very interesting. They (Cheney, Bush, Obama) are to blame, really.

    Time for us, as a nation to really get introspective and evaluate what causes a superpower to behave as we have. But...that introspection won't happen. Honey Boo Boo is on.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 10 months ago
    There is no such thing as "The Obama Doctrine." President Obama only stands in for the people who continue the policies of the previous administrations. Clinton was a Bush president, which is why they could travel around together after their terms of office. I agree that with different players - Hillary Clinton; Michelle Bachman; whoever - the details of what gets traded for what will change. However, the larger field of operations is constant.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 10 months ago
    Ahh, Darth Vader speaks again. The man who spoke the loudest and pushed the hardest for the WMD Nuclear threat from Saddam. And the man who made sure that his company and all of his crony buddies raked all the profits they could from open ended contracts with outrageous costs and profits. Yes Obama is taking the US down a notch, really more than a notch, but Cheney and his crew began it with the insanity that we could turn the middle east into some type of democracy and have a safe haven from which to control the future of that area.

    Both administrations are the worst events this country has ever had to face and we'll pay for it for years into the future. As soon as we stop listening to the kind of evil fools we've had in administrations for most of the last century, the sooner we'll have a chance for this country to once again become the envy of the world.
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    • Posted by Bobhummel 9 years, 10 months ago
      Really? Darth Vader? The likes of Bertram Scudder's MSM has infiltrated and poisoned your mind. The former Vice President is probably one of the most consistent and accurate members of any administration in discussing and challenging the threat to humanity from these Jihadi pieces of human debris.
      Since when was private enterprise the enemy. Halliburton is a company that does a lot of thing really well in places where no one else, or very very few has the balls or ability to operate.

      I thought the editorial accurately described the situation 6 years ago and compared it to the complete failure that is Barack Hussein Obama's foreign policy.
      The bigger issue here is that President Obama is acting unilaterally and, quoting from this article " ... seems determined to leave office ensuring he has taken America down a notch. Indeed, the speed of the terrorists' takeover of territory in Iraq has been matched only by the speed of American decline on his watch."

      He has dismissed congress as a threat to his power to act as he wishes, a statist authoritarian with no reason to hide. The Bertram Scudder mouthpieces for the MSM describe his action as if they come from nameless and faceless bureaucrats. But they are the ACTIONS of Barack Hussein Obama.
      BHO orders his EPA to kill coal with 30% reduction in carbon emissions mandate.
      BHO orders the Patent and Trademark Office to give away the property rights of the Washington Redskin. Can you say directive 10-289?
      BHO orders the HHS to take away your right to choose your doctor and your health insurance choices.
      BHO orders the IRS to put their jack boot on your throat to silence your free speech rights. True the vote, patriot, Tea Party. And then, Surprise! the computers with all the emails of incrimination - Oh, the hard drives crashed.
      BHO orders the CBP to essentially open the southern boarder.
      BHO orders the DOJ to become the department of Social Justice. To hell with anyone that isn't one of us. Crush them.
      BHO is in full frontal assault on the DOD. Withdrawing unilaterally from all territory liberated by American and its ally's' blood. Then trade and free 5 terrorists for one traitor.
      BHO has executed failure after failure in foreign policy, if by failure it results in the diminishment of American influence in the world. Syrian - Red Line, Ukraine, Status of Forces agreement in Iraq & Afghanistan, Benghazi, NATO missile defense in Poland, Russia rest button.......on and on and on.
      BHO's new America is now typified by his comments before the lesbian,gay, bi, transgender, pedophile community. They are now free from the oppression that WAS America. In SFO last night, he demanded that they join him and demand a livable minimum wage, welcome anyone who wants to come here from anywhere. The new majority will rule. Freedom will be dead!
      BHO addresses the graduating 2nd Lieutenants at the U S Military Academy, not with a coherent foreign policy statement, but a rambling speech on global warming.
      BHO orders his EPA, DOA, DOE to kill the engine of capitailism - the free flow of energy at market prices, by imposing strangling regulations on every industry that uses fossil fuels.
      BHO wants to turn 10% of the ocean into a refuge, undefiled by human access or use. You living your life, you are destroying the planet so we are going to stop you and your mind and enslave they to our will.
      BHO rewards his campaign contributors, like Solindra, GE, unions, in a crony socialist scheme.
      BHO ordered his VA to deny the earned benefits to our veterans by giving monetary incentives to the bureaucrats to make it look like socialized medicine works.
      BHO is a TYRANT!
      When you put HIS name on everything his government has done to this country and its citizens, it make Vice President Richard Cheney look like a the very smartest man on the entire planet who is fighting for the America I was born into.
      Cheers
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      • Posted by $ stargeezer 9 years, 10 months ago
        I'm amazed at how many think "profit" is such a evil thing. Very well said Bob!
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        • Posted by Bobhummel 9 years, 10 months ago
          Thank you sir. Hostis Humani Generis is the term that best describes these ISIS insurgents. They are the "Enemy of Mankind". We are facing a two front war, they are the foreign (outside) threat, Barack Hussein Obama is the domestic (inside) threat to freedom.
          Demonizing Halliburton is a tactic of moochers who could succeed on their own merit.
          Cheers
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    • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago
      Mistakes were made by both administrations Zen but even Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq war. The invasion was justified with the intelligence we had. I didn't like the nation building stuff. Completely withdrawing and signaling that we have no intentions of intervening is clearly worse judging from the current situation.
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 10 months ago
        Hillary's vote doesn't infuse me with a lot of confidence. I'm not sure what she's ever added to a discussion or debate. And I still believe the intelligence was faked to justify the invasion. Yeah, the situations worse - that's Obama's full intent. He hasn't really hidden that goal.
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    • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 10 months ago
      Cheney shouldn't have had to say shit about WMDs. If the left weren't full of such influential cowards, the fact that he fired on our warplanes and violated the armistice was enough; but no, the cowards and moral equivocators and downright traitors didn't care about what had to be done until they thought maybe someone might say the word "nuke" three times and beetlejuice might appear.

      Please explain to me exactly what security for the people rebuilding Iraq *should* cost; while you're at it, please provide a cost-analysis of rebuilding a country's infrastructure that has been allowed to go to pot for years before the invasion.

      This isn't about blood-for-oil. This is about crushing our enemies.
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