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  • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
    Who do you think will rack up the most debt. Obama or Romney?

    Which one will provide the greater freedom to the individual, Obama or Romney?

    Like it or not those are the only choices we have. Pick the better and vote or you become part of the problem.

    We are not going to undo the last 130 years of collectivism in the US overnight, to change things we are going to have to shift public thinking, particularly the politicians. If we can shift to a bit smaller government guy each time in our house, senate and presidential races our great grand kids may see the kind of freedom or great grand parents did.

    I think it completely unreasoned to think we can reverse 130 years of damage in 10 years.

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    • Posted by  $  ObjectiveAnalyst 2 years, 1 month ago
      Hello XenokRoy,

      I agree. No matter how you slice it there are unfortunately only two viable possibilities for president this election cycle, Romney or Obama. No matter how much we would like another viable choice the reality is that one of these two will be our next president. The MSM will not even acknowledge the others or the problems their own lack of acknowledgement create. We need better choices and competition, just like we need free markets; we need fair competition in politics. If you live in a swing state or even one which is remotely close to a toss-up if you don’t vote for the lesser of the evils with a chance of winning you may be aiding in the election of the greater evil. I find many faults with both viable candidates, but I can’t live with knowing I helped continue the status quo. It would seem that letting one party remain in power after displaying such disdain for the capitalism that gave this nation the prosperity it has achieved will only embolden them for more destruction. Our demise has only been delayed, the destruction slowed to some degree because we keep threatening one party with replacement by the other. We must make what positive steps we can and try to influence through education and viewership/ ratings the MSM so they will give other candidates their proper due. Until we awaken the MSM and the masses to the facts we have all come to realize, namely that there is only a modicum of difference between the two parties and we deserve better choices, we will continue in this state. Of course the alternative is to try to correct the defects of one or both parties from within. I believe whether you agree with them or not, that is what the TEA party is trying. Give serious consideration to the congressional races and vote!
      O.A.
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      • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
        Thanks O.A.

        I personally think we have to do it from within one of these parties. Why? Because for two decades that I have been involved in politics in my local area Libertarians have tried as a third party and failed. Why would I think that continuing that strategy would work at some point in the future? I see nothing changing there.

        I think the tea party has forced Mitt Romney and other republicans to be a bit more for small government. Some more than others, or perhaps there is enough vote to get some truly small government guys in. Either way its having greater inroads than any other method we have tried to date.
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        • Posted by  $  overmanwarrior 2 years, 1 month ago
          I can see why Johnson is attractive and I'm not crazy about anything involving machine politics. But I don't think we are even dealing with a player in Obama who even deserves a seat at the American table, as his views are so excessively far to the left. If we have to deal with a two party system, I think the choice should be between Mitt Romeny and Gary Johnson as the Democrats should be eradicated from politics all together. They have shown what they stand for and any politician who speaks in favor of a "middle class" is one that wants to hold people down for political gain, and that is wrong. Nobody should aim to be in the "middle class" even if they are already there and never come out of it.
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          • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
            I could not agree more with you. I would love to have Johnson as a viable canidate. The democrats have moved so far to the left that they need to rename there party the national socialist party (and I am fully aware of the implication of the name)
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  • Posted by Stormi 2 years, 1 month ago
    How can a Marxist who spent his life reading Saul Alinsky be expected to provide any freedom? Which candidate calls for redistribution? Which candidate has agreeded to help the UN implement UN Agenda 21, which would change EVERY aspect of our lives, from taking away property rights, to controlling auto ownership, what foods we may eat (not meat), to how many children are "sustainable"? I have first hand account of law enforcement being asked if they are willing to use guns against US citizens to enforce UN Agenda 21. Obama is the only one who fits all the above criteria. Romeny may not be perfect, and was not my first choice, but he is more for free enterprise and US freedoms than is Obama.
    Obama does not own his white side. He does not trust voters enought to be honest about his sexual orientation while in Chicago.If a man cannot be honest about himself, how can you trust him with your life and freedom. Atlas is already shrugging.
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  • Posted by decarlisle 2 years, 1 month ago
    I understanding the lack of choice I personally am glad we have at least two candidates to choose from. I also believe we need at least 3 parties it is quite foolish to have only two and that has a lot to do why the status does not change.

    I am still wondering if we will get an election and if so will it be honest. I expect riots and much civil unrest if Romney wins and that means we all lose even more freedom. That will not surprise many of us. I believe Obama would cost us everything if he gets re-elected and Romney would do the best of his ability given the insurmountable odds he will face.

    I also expect the left to throw in as many monkey wrenches into the machinery before they leave. The are so greedy and self serving they have know idea that the country can't support them cradle to grave after all it has their leaders why not them?

    To start promoting folks vote for anybody right before the election is suicidal for the country. I voted for Perot because I did not trust Mr.New World order or His plan to divide Israel among the terrorist nations. We know how that turned out my vote ended up being for the Slick Willey and that was even worst I think not sure though.

    I do believe Romney is better than the Bushes and all the liberals either way. After this election there should be a major push for a viable 3rd party.
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    • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
      Also I agree with a push for a third party after this election. It is likely going to fail again, but we should be making all the pushes we can from every direction.

      It is key that it take place after this election and not during it. Nothing can be left to chance as in 4 more years it wont be 47% that a man like Romney knows he cannot get to vote for him, it will be well over 50% and we will never have another chance to get anyone in that is not a welfare state supporter again.
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      • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
        I need to update this, as I have thought more about it, I do not agree with creating a third party. It must be a change in platform of the republican party.

        A third party will simply give the totalitarians more ammunition in the form of big government canidates winning by large landslides. They would spin it as a sing that most people can see that capitalism does not work and we need to move to socialism. It would do nothing but embolden those that are the worst in our society.
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        • Posted by  $  ObjectiveAnalyst 2 years, 1 month ago
          Interesting, food for thought... Don’t you believe a viable threat from a third party would force the two main parties to change perhaps more swiftly? Perhaps that is the effect of the TEA party. They are not a true third party but have the same effect. If I extrapolate correctly, you are suggesting that, that is the best approach, non official parties, advocacy groups pushing the traditional parties… Something to consider…
          O.A.
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          • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
            Exactly.

            As I thought about this, I think that a true third party would simply weaken the republican party to the point where both the third party (likely libriatarian) and the republicans would fail, leaving only large government progressives in offices.

            The TEA party movement has given us an increase of representation in the senate and the house of people that will stand with Ron Paul rather than against him. I thin k if we were to all put our energies there, perhaps we can swing the party to a small government focus. I think it the best shot we have.
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            • Posted by  $  khalling 2 years, 1 month ago
              I disagree. If we look at the Socialist Party platforms of the 20's and 30's, they never won a Presidential election. However, their platforms eventually were adopted by the country in passed laws. The Republican Party has been very overhanded in telling us who our candidates can be. A strong libertarian voter turnout really has influence in how Romney might act as President. Clinton at least pretended to be middle of the road governing in response to Perot running.The deficit was cut..
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              • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
                I think what is influencing Romney has much more to do with what is happening in party than out of party.

                If you split the conservative/individual/constitutional/libertarian vote up we get people like Obama in office. We cannot afford that right now.
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                • Posted by  $  khalling 2 years, 1 month ago
                  We also can't afford a Bush III either. On one hand, if Romney comes in and doesn't do the right things-the economy fails and people say "see, capitalism doesn't work!" On the other hand, until the Republican party takes fiscal conservatives and Libertarians seriously, it's important to have a Libertarian Party. I think about the tea party's ability to influence the party. It has energized people within the party but the establishment loathes them. it will be interesting and terrifying to see if Romney just campaigned to the original tea party or will govern with its principles.
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                • Posted by WesleyMooch 2 years, 1 month ago
                  "Right now" is a delusion. Your mindset keeps you stuck in the two-party tyranny, cycle after cycle after cycle.
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                  • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
                    Your mindset will destroy the US. It is delusion to think that a new party will get people to think. Ideas must first be introduced into a place where they will hear them. No one but libertarians will listen to a libertarian. That has been proven by plenty of us. We have to speed from an accepted platform. If this was 1920 it would be different, but its not. People need to wake up and face the reality of where we are and what our options are right now. You can choose between Obama and Romney, there is no other choice. To think otherwise is delusional.
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                    • Posted by WesleyMooch 2 years, 1 month ago
                      The U.S.' destruction was well under way long before we were born. Destruction of a thing as large as the United States of America is a process, not an event.
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            • Posted by WesleyMooch 2 years, 1 month ago
              Myth: Gary Johnson's Libertarian Party campaign draws votes away from the Republican party primarily.

              Fact: Gary Johnson's campaign draws votes from both Republican and Democratic parties fairly evenly. His campaign also draws votes from Independents, and from the otherwise too disillusioned to vote at all.
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              • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
                Disagree with your fact and myth. Common sense would tell you that nay libritarian candidate will pull more from the republicans than from the democrats. Not a Myth basic common sense. You will pull from the party you have more in common with more heavily
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                • Posted by WesleyMooch 2 years, 1 month ago
                  Enjoy the tyranny under Barack or Mitt Romama.
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                  • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
                    Well vote for Johnson and you will get more of Barack, vote for Mitt you may or may not get some movement in the right direction. You will not see Johnson in the presidents office, so you still get the tyranny under one of them anyway, one way just leaves you with a chance to move away from the tyranny while the other leaves no hope.
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                    • Posted by WesleyMooch 2 years, 1 month ago
                      If the NORML lobby puts Johnson over the 5% threshold this year, I still won't see Johnson in office in 2012, but by 2016, you and a few tens of millions more will clamor for him.

                      I recoil from the thought of either another Republican *or* Democrat this cycle or next. Both have been, are, and will continue to be monumental failures.
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    • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
      From my viewpoint the push for the viable third party has happened before with no successful results. I think the push has to be continuous on the republicans to become the party of small government. I think it is only through continuous pressure over a period of years that we will begin to move things back. We are talking about shaping the political philosophy of millions. That took time for the liberals to do and it will take time for us to take it back.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 2 years, 1 month ago
    Balanced budget in 8-10 years? Bull. Clueless. Not with all the looting Romney wants to keep.
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  • Posted by  $  LetsShrug 2 years, 1 month ago
    A glimpse into our possible futures.
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    • Posted by  $  overmanwarrior 2 years, 1 month ago
      I would like to see the destruction of the Obama Presidency............personally.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 2 years, 1 month ago
        Agreed. Only wish there was a genuinely good, pro-liberty replacement running.
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        • Posted by WesleyMooch 2 years, 1 month ago
          What is Gary Johnson -- chopped liver?
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          • Posted by freedomforall 2 years, 1 month ago
            Sorry, I should have said "running with more than a snowball's chance in hell of being elected."
            I do like chopped liver, too, though ;^)
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            • Posted by WesleyMooch 2 years, 1 month ago
              As I've said elsewhere, Johnson gets 5% of the 2012 vote, he earns matching funds for the Libertarian Party in 2016.

              See Gary Johnson's Infowars interview where he breaks it down:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu2fgftrw...
              (That's right -- on my evil YouTube channel).
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              • Posted by freedomforall 2 years, 1 month ago
                So you have said. It would be nice to see him get 5%, and then the Lib Party can drink from the public trough, too. (Of course, the mainstream media whores will still ignore them.) Harry Brown and Ron Paul explained that funding issue in past elections, too.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 2 years, 1 month ago
    Lots of boasting, fingerpointing, blame casting, claims to "take responsibility" (while doing/changing nothing whatsoever), and lies, plenty of lies. Same old politics, without representation.
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  • Posted by radical 2 years, 1 month ago
    We have been voting for the less of two evils for many decades, and that is why we are at the present state.
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  • Posted by theodoremccoy 2 years, 1 month ago
    To all of the Johnson supporters, is it worth 4 more years of Obama to get Johnson 5%of the vote? I do not think so. As said here, we need to undo bad policy decisions that began in the 1920's. that will not happen overnight. The democrat party needs to be rebranded Socialist Party USA. America needs to see what they are actually voting for. Unfortunately, for many voters, without that label they can not see the distinction.
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    • Posted by 2 years, 1 month ago
      Where do we end up with an Obama 2nd term. We will be completely within a Totalitarian state and likely within a Marxist state. The whole world is lost and we have 1000 years before freedom might get another chance.

      Romney is not the guy I would love to have, but he is no Bush, no Clinton and no Obama. He may actually reduce the size of government, particularly if we get some good congressmen and women to push him that direction. He will need to be pushed by those in congress that are small government constitutionalists (Mike Lee for an example) but I think he can be pushed that way.

      If Romney does not win it will be the end of US as place with a chance of having the freedom we all deserve with the only option being a civil war.

      That to me is not worth the money, and not the way forward.
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    • Posted by  $  LetsShrug 2 years, 1 month ago
      I've had this very same argument previously in the Gulch. NO, it is NOT worth the risk...now is not the time. (I'd love a 3rd party candidate, but it just isn't possible this election.) One Ross Perot distraction was enough. I voted for him and I learned the hard way.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 2 years, 1 month ago
        How about another shrub? Another 911. The epitome of corporate welfare plans via war based on a pack of lies. Too tired of sleazy, dishonest scum sitting in the presidents' chair (for nearly all of the past 50 years.) The agenda of the 2 parties is opposition to liberty and reason. A vote for either of them is a vote for slavery.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 2 years, 1 month ago
      And the Republicans might need to be labeled the American Fascist Party or the long time conservatives cant see the distinction either. Voting for the lesser of two evils brings slavery. the bad decisions started long before 1920's but I understand your point. But making the same mistake again will not bring a different result.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 2 years, 1 month ago
    Harrumph, harrumph, harrumph. "We decimated the leadership in Afghanistan" says Oprahma. Woo hoo, if true, you reduced them by 10 percent! Wow! If the value of middle class' real estate had only been decimated on your watch!
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  • Posted by freedomforall 2 years, 1 month ago
    War mongering puppets. Keep frightening the populace to enlarge their power and reduce our liberty. These two are NOT the good guys.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 2 years, 1 month ago
    These two moronic nitwits don't know anything about free markets. They do flap their gums a lot, as if they did.
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