Nope, I'd be in the business of education. Someone else is doing finance.

$80K degree is a problem? Cars cost that much. I don't think so. ROI is the simple measure. You can't ask someone to teach what they know for less than they can make if they practice. I don't see how we can expect someone to be a contributing engineer with less than such a commitment.
What do you think is required to teach the "shoulders of giants"?

Even then, you have an 80K degree. Why would it need to be so expensive? That is one of the problems we have. Would you carry the costs and allow a 20 year repayment?

Agree with that. Demand is increases by the lack of respect for hard working blue collar people and jobs too.

Still think there is a lot more inefficiency in higher education than real companies.

I'd like to start an engineering school, just for undergraduates to focus on engineering fundamentals, good communication skills, ethics and discipline. I don't see how 15 professors, an assistant or two and two people in finance can't teach 200-300 undergraduates engineering. At $20K/year, this is $4-6M/year, plenty for salaries and rent. Anyone can come up with $20K/yr.

Well,it does increase the demand percieved by colleges and the false idea that college is the only answer to learning. The cost and quality issue is seperate in that they (colleges) seem to think that because so many jobs "must" have a degree, they have a lock on it. That is why you can go to one, and move to another, only to find they won't honor the credits. They feel they have such a lock they can dictate all the "requirements" even when some are pure garbage.

The "They went through it so you should" is definitely a present fallacy, but I don't think it is the problem with the cost or quality of education.

Amen!

Exactly JB! Right on target!

Either way, it is still her stupid idea of "do what you want with other peoples money" and that is my main objection. I do not like having to constantly ante up in increasing amounts for other idiots to get elected. Stop the madness. See my "Get rid of Politics" rant, it is time to end funding 30% of the country by the other 70%.

Some good pointsand somethings that need to get into an overall discussion of the purpose and meaning of education. I think it has been allowed to just roll along on the gravy train, and everyone just bought into it, because "they went through it, so you should". The fact that dynamics cause changes, and what worked 10 years ago maybe unworkable today. Really...

I agree, I have gotten some really good answers to vexing questions from YT.

We will never lose our real, solid undergraduate education. That is, and always will be, the key to FIT, and will be my primary responsibility.

sounds like you are referring to CNN

Ok. I hope they don't forget the undergrads. No neglected. Research is great, but real, solid undergraduate education is key. I know so many MIT and Ivy League graduates that are technical clowns, with no understanding of first principles. Soooo many. FIT technical boneheads? A lot less as a percentage.

Ahh. We are in agreement then. Thanks CG.

No, no. The dumb category is the people in the comments section who, regardless of the topic of the video, can find some way to make it a) about race, b) how the commenter thinks he's so much smarter than the people on the video, or c) just mindless insults like "dude, this is so gay."

I think it could be because it's primary purpose is video, so it attracts semi-literate people more than comments in a news article.

President Catanese did a fine job, especially his last few years. After getting the position in 2003, he had the guts to hire the new FIT president, Dwayne McCay, as provost. New president McCay had been the second choice for president when Catanese was hired. When I was faculty senate president in 2007-2008, I got to know both of them quite well, especially while golfing. Both are quite honorable men. The new president probably won't be as good as fundraising as the last one, but knows how to manage both budgets and people quite well. Both the new president and his wife have impressive backgrounds in aerospace engineering and materials science. They have done quite well for the university for almost 12 years, and will continue to do so. I think that the undergrad program is about as good as it can get. The new president is going to focus more on research, to better promote our graduate programs and external prestige. That is probably where we needed to focus our attention over the next 15 years, so he will be good for the university.

"I do know highly skilled techs, and engineers that went through the motions learning nothing, but this is the exception not the rule."
Yes. This is my experience exactly! The exceptions are striking, almost making me wonder if people are lying about their credentials or secretly got a degree but maintain an image of a scruffy autodidact.

I was not saying higher education is unnecessary. The thing that chaps my ass is when people spend huge amounts of money on it just because it's the next step without really thinking it through, and then present that as a society problem. (but I did what I was told?) I did this to some extent in undergrad. I got employers to pay for my masters, and that benefited me by saving money but also by doing real-world work at the same time and by making me be more deliberate about it. Being deliberate and not just doing what you're told is key.

I must be in the dumb category, but I have learned a lot of "practical knowledge" from YouTube. Its great. Everything from home repair to solutions to engineering problems for my work.

Indeed. We have a new President too eh? I was there for the first three, but never met Cantanese (sp?). How is the new guy?

What good is a free college degree, when you still have mostly what you should have been taught in high school, with a whole lot of DIVERSITY thrown in
The government has already dropped us to 25rh in the world in test scores, they need to get out of schooling. Hillary is also for the UN tax. She won't be happy until until the middle class has nothing left, and needs to join those depending on government for help. She does not value actually educating the next generation, they are to be dumbed down, equalized to undeveloped nation status, or exterminated with vaccines to reduce population.

Yes - A place with where the smartest people in the world and dumbest people come together.

And I can attest that you got a fine education. As for the humanities, most of our alumni's employers tell us that our students' ability to write technical documents is distinctly superior to those from competitive institutions. I look forward to your return as an outstanding alum!

Well, my education didn't cost my parents anything. Don't know what your degree is in, but I don't see how most people could contribute as an engineer without a decent undergraduate education. Maybe I could've skipped some humanities, but calculus, trig, fluids, thermo, statics, machine design, circuits, no way. You might get away with being a mechanic-type hack or a skilled electrical-tinkerer, but not a design engineer.
That said, I do know highly skilled techs, and engineers that went through the motions learning nothing, but this is the exception not the rule.

The entire motivation for this is that a majority of the degrees available do not increase your earning potential significantly enough to be a real ROI on the college investment.
People are going to school, because to be in that crowd, they need a college degree, otherwise, they might really have to work for a living. The fact is, everyone has to work for a living, and the work some can do it more marketable than the work others can do. So sorry, why don't you go complain about professional athletes salaries progressive puke.

To make it easier for the majority, lazy, unmeasured(able?) fine and liberal arts majors, the progressives want to pay for college, and produce even more pretend-educated, non-contributing, over-earning people in our welfare state, that will then complain about income-inequality without looking at those in the rest of the world.

This is precisely what Margret Thatcher meant when she said, the problem with socialism is you eventually run out of other people's money.

If The Donald had a hint of a strategy, he would take the other side of this argument, and say, "Indeed, college is too expensive, and we have inadequate students in the curricula that contributes and earns. The problem is the cost of education, not the availability of money for it. We do not need to pour gasoline on this fire. I propose:
1. revising the college accreditation standards to simplify the requirements and improve competition. Why can't someone learn nursing in a 200 person school?
2. Linking federal funding to metrics on graduate earnings and draw from the job market. If STEM pays, STEM gets funded.
3. Provide funding to trade schools equivalently. We need all kinds of worker, and the country values diversity. Not everyone will be happy as a doctor, lawyer or engineer, but everyone needs a home, transportation and electricity.
Yes, school is affordable. How can it possible cost $40,000 for 510 hrs of teaching a year? With just 10 students per class, this is $780/hr. Absolutely ridiculous cost. Just ridiculous. Screaming waste, fraud and inefficiency. Let me show you how some real business competition drives efficiency!"

like YouTube !!!